Q:

Matador R3M v/s R3 single shot

While the R3M has not yet hit the shores of all countries there is a lot of talk and excitement amongst customers awaiting their new Xmas presies…
The first batch of .22 R3M’s have however been dispersed around the greater Europe, the middle east, Asia and pacific countries, and there are a few now in the hands of forum members willing to share their gripes and joys in relation to the new multi shot action.

The R3M has the same inherent accuracy as the R3 and shows no better or worse accuracy than the single shot R3 at long and short range grouping tests I have done. This is where the comparison should stop as they are the same rifle but different in nature. The Multi shot will suit some peoples needs but others like myself will always prefer the single shot.

There have been remarks about the action feeling “Much rougher than the single shot action” this however is not entirely correct.
Cycling the Multi shot action with the mag removed is very smooth, it cocks the hammer with the same amount of exertion as the single shot breech. It is not until you fit the magazine that you will feel the added friction caused by the indexing parts of the action which is only to be expected.
So indexing the mag may feel rougher than cocking the single shot but it can not be compared as the single shot does not have this feature. If you are comparing the two actions cocking just the hammer they feel the same.
The R3M’s bolt however sits further back and has a slightly longer draw to the single shot which takes a little getting a custom to if you are used to a single shot with the shorter draw.


In some cases (like my own) you will have to change your technique of cycling the multi shot as it is a very different machine. With my Single shot R3, I cock it by hooking my index finger over the bolt and placing my thumb on the rear of the action I draw the bolt back by squeezing my index finger closed.

To close the breach I just press the bolt in the centre with my thumb and then roll it off to the right to lock the bolt down all in one smooth motion. It is fast and effortless. The bolt handle on my early model R3 has less of a curve in it and extends outward a little further which I also prefer to the newer one but again that just personal preference.

With the R3M it takes a good grip (two fingers) on the bolt handle and while holding the rifle firmly with one hand it requires the usual smooth draw to cock the hammer but needs and additional ¼” sharper snappy movement to index the magazine to index the next pellet.
The draw is a little too long for me to use my thumb as an anchor on the back of the action for leverage unlike the single shot action.

I wouldn’t say this action is rougher than any other multishot PCP action it just requires a longer draw and a little more inertia at the end of its stroke to index the mag which feels foreign and a little forceful if you have got used to a single shot action. After a day or so behind the R3M like anything else it becomes more familiar and its little quirks become second nature.
Comparing the multishot R3M action to the R3 single shot is a mistake. They are very different beasts, some would say it’s like comparing are apples and oranges.

The internals of the new R3M are as smooth as silk and well polished on all the contacting friction points, they come shipped with a healthy coating of Russian grease on all moving parts but to be honest is not great grease. There is absolutely no need to polish or file anything in this action as I have seen some people doing on a brand new action…Like a new engine the action will have a run in period where all contact areas will eventually wear against each other until the are square with the opposing surface and as long as the metals don’t “pick up or mar” they will remain smooth and polished. It is a good idea to leave the sub standard factory grease in the action for at least 1500 shots (like running in oil in a new engine) to let the metals run in before a full strip, clean and replace the grease with a good quality Moly paste with at least 50% moly content which will make this action feel 100% better than it ever has previously.

There are far more friction inducing points in the R3M Multishot breech than the single shot R3 which only has the bolt slipping within its bore and the hammer cocking sliding wedge block which has a small side loading (longitudinal) as the hammer is dragged into the cocked rearward position.

The R3M has a different hammer cocking setup which comes with one advantage of the cocking pin attached to the bolt is actually a free spinning bearing surface which aids toward a smoother feel while cocking the hammer.

There is however multiple other side loadings related to the indexing of the magazine.
There are four different metals used in the production of these parts, stainless steel, duralium, brass and high carbon steel, (probably 4130 or 4140). All of these materials have their place but all have varying grades of frictional properties and respond to lubes very differently.
The first generation of the single shot R3s had the steel breach and a steel and eventually a stainless steel bolt which although had a rough machined bore for the bolt to ride in it responded VERY well to Moly paste and it is still by far my preferred action.
My early moly laden single shot breach cocks like a brisk jog on an ice rink and requires almost no effort at all, easily achieved with just my thumb and index finger.
I really hope Ed continues to offer the single shot action and manages to fit a few into future production schedules as its clear there will always be a demand in the market for them.

The R3M action is a very different animal, alloy (no matter what grade) is a little more “sticky” when combined with a harder steel and with the stainless steel bolt running in an alloy bore it will never be as slippery as steel on steel with burnished in moly.
Moly paste is the best way to prevent marring and get the best out of this situation even in the later single shot R3 alloy breeches.

The strip down:
Most of you have already seen the odd pic floating around the web of the R3M breech but I will attempt to describe it in a little more detail here.

I will start with the mag..

First question asked was “will it fit the Polymags?” Yes it will, with plenty of room to spare..

In my opinion the .22 16gr Polys are too light for the matador and don’t shoot well unless the reg pressure is dropped and hammer spring tuned to get their velocity around the 850-890fps, but there is no real reason to stray from the 18.13gr JSB pellet that the twist rate in the Matador barrel was designed for.
The polys will never be as accurate but still fit a niche for a close range hunting pellet I suppose.
However in the .25cal the weight of the Polymags is 26gr which is nearer to the 25.4gr of JSB Kings so it is a welcomed alternate diverse diet for the quarter bore Matador that generally shoots very well to 50-60 meters and is a devastating g hunting pellet at those ranges.

The mag itself aids in pellet consistency by sizing all the pellets skirts to the same uniform size as the pass through it, the heads all fit loosely in it but are held in place with the two surrounding O rings.

I tested the action for pellet deformation and damage by cycling them into the chamber then pushing them back out the way they went in with a braising rod from the muzzle end and even with some very vigorous cycling there was no notable damage other than a very small dimple in the rear of the pellet from the pellet probe which will not and hasn’t had any effect accuracy.
The small ball bearings that hold the mag in place and locate it on the indexing detent are very tightly sprung requiring a firm shove to fit and remove so there is no chance of one falling out and getting lost.
They hold 10 pellets in .22cal and 9 in .25cal

The pellet probe no longer has the tiny dual O rings fitted to it, instead it is smooth and tapered to assist proper mag to bore alignment and concentric pellet feeding.

The Breach sealing O ring is now located in the breach block like the Air arms design only its captured behind a brass bush held in place small grub screw on the underside.
The O ring is substantially thicker and should last longer than the ones fitted on the R3 probes.

The mag indexing cam is steel and the inside edges are polished like a mirror which in turn run on a rolling brass bearing on the hammer cocking pin, all these parts glide very well and like I said earlier the only resistance comes from the mag itself when the cam is engaging it, it just takes a little sharp pull at the end of the stroke to index the next shot. (Uncle Hoot will add an intelligent quotation of self pleasure on that sentence Im sure 😉 )

I wont go on about the workings of the mechanism itself as there is plenty of pics and vids now available on how it functions but I will add I am very fond of its simplicity.
It could very easily be stripped in the field with a couple of Allen wrenches if you ever needed with the lack of small parts and springs etc present in most other makes of multishot PCPs, there is no fear of any small spring loaded parts vacating at 100mph on disassembly never to be seen again..

Well done Ed and congrats on another very well thought out functional piece of engineering to be released from the Edgun factory… the simplicity and rugged nature of this product yet again follows true with your Russian weapon makers spirit. :thumb:

“All that is complex is not useful. All that is useful is simple.” – Mikhail Kalashnikov

EdGun

All Replies

Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 42 total)

1 2 3
quote zocoloco:

I love this thread…….

Wingman, thanks a million for your review and comparison. Not only did it save myself a lot of work, – but you have done it far better than I ever would have been able to….. :8: :8: :8:

Now that I finally have taken delivery of my own R3M, I can relate more easily to your excellent images and comments. I have reread the thread at least 5 times, – and will come back again for sure….

Cheers from
Trygve in Oslo 😀

You are most welcome Trygve,
You have posted many great reviews and pics that have inspired me also, I’m glad I could return the favour.

I’m sure your first impressions of the R3M action were the same as mine and it wasn’t until I chambered pellets from the mag and pushed them back out via a rod from the muzzle end for inspection that my accuracy obsessed mind was set at ease.. I was almost certain with the feel and operation of the action and mag that there would be pellet damage from chambering.. this however was not the case and it shoots like a dream.

With a little use you will get accustomed to the new actions feel and you will find the motion required to cycle it will become second nature.
I still find it a little awkward to cycle on the bench but very easy when shooting offhand.

Take the time to run it in properly and then enjoy it as Im sure you will.

Regards, Wingman

I love this thread…….

Wingman, thanks a million for your review and comparison. Not only did it save myself a lot of work, – but you have done it far better than I ever would have been able to….. :8: :8: :8:

Now that I finally have taken delivery of my own R3M, I can relate more easily to your excellent images and comments. I have reread the thread at least 5 times, – and will come back again for sure….

Cheers from
Trygve in Oslo 😀

quote Ed:

Thank you, Phil for nice and detailed, as usually, report. I just want to add something. I’ve updated the mag system, moving the fixing ball from the side of the mag close to the middle, changing the shape of the whole for parking the ball. It gave much smoother cocking and better work of the system itself. I think people will value it.

Ed Thank you for your optimisation.
All off your work contribute for your good reputation in the air gun.
We wait every time with impatience your product.
We can wait a long time about the good product because we know it’s the best products.
Thank you for your support.
Best regards.
Mika

quote Ed:

… I’ve updated the mag system, moving the fixing ball from the side of the mag close to the middle, changing the shape of the whole for parking the ball. It gave much smoother cocking and better work of the system itself. I think people will value it.

Hi ED,

I’m sure that certainly all R3M buyers/owners WILL VALUE a well working R3M unit, no questions about that! 😀

I think that

quote Ed:

… It gave much smoother cocking and better work of the system itself…

is self explanatory coming from a source of yourself (with or without moly paste).

Brgds

P

Hi Ed,
I would value much more a functional R3M…can you replace my complete action for the new one?

Brgds
Jack

quote Ed:

Thank you, Phil for nice and detailed, as usually, report. I just want to add something. I’ve updated the mag system, moving the fixing ball from the side of the mag close to the middle, changing the shape of the whole for parking the ball. It gave much smoother cocking and better work of the system itself. I think people will value it.

As always I tell it as I see it 🙂
Some photos of your new mag and detent ball location would be great Ed..

Thank you, Phil for nice and detailed, as usually, report. I just want to add something. I’ve updated the mag system, moving the fixing ball from the side of the mag close to the middle, changing the shape of the whole for parking the ball. It gave much smoother cocking and better work of the system itself. I think people will value it.

I picked it up a few years back in their power sports (motorcycles and ATVs, etc.) dealership rather than the automotive which didn’t carry it.

quote MEROU:

quote hacampbell1360:

Hi Merou,

Looked like you are really after this moly lube. If you are near a honda dealership, just walk in and ask any Honda technician for a package of Honda MolyKote. it is a small grease package, the size is a ketchup serving, that is included in every brake pad box. usually they have extras. I used to work for Honda and these things are all over the place.

Just a though

John p

Hi john super idea !!!
Thank you for your help, I tried to find a Honda dealership and ask for the Honda Molykote.
Bests regards,
Mika

quote hacampbell1360:

Hi Merou,

Looked like you are really after this moly lube. If you are near a honda dealership, just walk in and ask any Honda technician for a package of Honda MolyKote. it is a small grease package, the size is a ketchup serving, that is included in every brake pad box. usually they have extras. I used to work for Honda and these things are all over the place.

Just a though

John p

Hi john super idea !!!
Thank you for your help, I tried to find a Honda dealership and ask for the Honda Molykote.
Bests regards,
Mika

Hi Merou,

Looked like you are really after this moly lube. If you are near a honda dealership, just walk in and ask any Honda technician for a package of Honda MolyKote. it is a small grease package, the size is a ketchup serving, that is included in every brake pad box. usually they have extras. I used to work for Honda and these things are all over the place.

Just a though

John p

Awesome write up / post. Spoke with Tony , then Ed to confirm when ordering my first Edgun (Really wanted the single shot in 25). Ed told me they were not going to be making the single shot anymore. All will be multi with exception of 30 cal currently shipping. Wish this wasnt accurate but thats what Ed said in his pm.

quote Wingman NZ:

quote MEROU:

Thanks Wingman for your super Training verry useful.

Have you got a link to buy the fabulous product : “moly paste lube”

I want to do the same operation with mine.

Thanks

Mika

I make my own Moly paste with 70% Moly powder bought from my local reloading supplies (some target shooters use it to coat their projectiles) and mix it in a ceramic carrier grease but its not for sale outside on New Zealand so please dont ask 😉

Grease is a lot like paint: there are different formulations for different applications. For example, the latex paint you use on the walls of your living room would look very nice on the hull of your boat but wouldn’t last an hour once you put it in the water. For boats, they have special epoxy paints that would look hideous in your living room.

Multi-purpose grease is called for on sliding surfaces. Moly grease and paste are used when the surfaces are under pressure; which you use depends on how much pressure its under. You’ll find silicone grease on the disc brake pins and the clutch master cylinder piston because it won’t destroy the rubber boots that cover them.

Just be careful when buy Moly pastes as there are many moly products on the market that use the name “Moly” in their brand name but contain no moly at all or only a very small percentage.
When your looking to buy a grease for specific task look for the following codes on the packaging:

GREASE – Multi-purpose lithium-based grease
M -Molybdenum disulphide grease with at least 3% moly content
MP – Molybdenum disulphide paste with at least 40% moly content
S – Silicone grease

MP is what your after for this job, the higher the moly percentage the better. Take care not to get this molly paste in your air system though or on your O rings , most moly pastes have petroleum or lithium bases and do not mix with compressed air. 100% silicone grease it the only lube to use with high pressure air systems and will perish O rings in no time.
Just be aware that silicone grease has almost no lubricating properties for steel on steel contact so should only be used on plastic and rubber parts not actions etc.

A very good of the shelf moly product for air guns is Honda Moly paste 60 (with 60%moly)

http://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Honda-08734-0001-Moly-Grease/dp/B0083BWUYW/ref=pd_sim_sbs_indust_2

Sir Ville and Wingman,

Thank you verry much for your help with the Moly Grease.
I think the Honda Moly grease correspond very well for the job.
Bests regards

quote MEROU:

Thanks Wingman for your super Training verry useful.

Have you got a link to buy the fabulous product : “moly paste lube”

I want to do the same operation with mine.

Thanks

Mika

I make my own Moly paste with 70% Moly powder bought from my local reloading supplies (some target shooters use it to coat their projectiles) and mix it in a ceramic carrier grease but its not for sale outside on New Zealand so please dont ask 😉

Grease is a lot like paint: there are different formulations for different applications. For example, the latex paint you use on the walls of your living room would look very nice on the hull of your boat but wouldn’t last an hour once you put it in the water. For boats, they have special epoxy paints that would look hideous in your living room.

Multi-purpose grease is called for on sliding surfaces. Moly grease and paste are used when the surfaces are under pressure; which you use depends on how much pressure its under. You’ll find silicone grease on the disc brake pins and the clutch master cylinder piston because it won’t destroy the rubber boots that cover them.

Just be careful when buy Moly pastes as there are many moly products on the market that use the name “Moly” in their brand name but contain no moly at all or only a very small percentage.
When your looking to buy a grease for specific task look for the following codes on the packaging:

GREASE – Multi-purpose lithium-based grease
M -Molybdenum disulphide grease with at least 3% moly content
MP – Molybdenum disulphide paste with at least 40% moly content
S – Silicone grease

MP is what your after for this job, the higher the moly percentage the better. Take care not to get this molly paste in your air system though or on your O rings , most moly pastes have petroleum or lithium bases and do not mix with compressed air and will perish O rings in no time. 100% silicone grease it the only lube to use with high pressure air systems.
Just be aware that silicone grease has almost no lubricating properties for steel on steel contact so should only be used on plastic and rubber parts not actions etc.

A very good of the shelf moly product for air guns is Honda Moly paste 60 (with 60%moly)

Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 42 total)

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