Microlite Bullpup kit for TalonP
Hi Guys, This is the thing I have been alluding too for a while now. It is a Drop in Bullpup Kit for the TalonP.
The Kit remounts the Barrel behind the hand grip,converts to a side cocking Action and adds baffling to quiet down the loud TalonP.
The Kits will also work on the Condor and Tss, but They are especially geared to the TalonP since it already has all the OEM requirements for The Bullpup conversion.
There is a detailed write up in the General Chat section, but Im posting some additional info here along with a Installation video for anyone who is interested.
Instruction Video
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Again, in my opinion, the longer slotted barrel mount with the 6-ports closed off is pretty quiet. But getting my microlite bullpup as quiet as possible is not really my objective, for now. Rather it’s to make this gun as accurate as possible. My thought is that getting the rapidly expanding air behind the pellet to divert away from the pellet, even for a very short time period will help to produce more accuracy. I already have 8-holes drilled in the frame, just ahead of the rear bushing. I want to drill 8 more holes, just behind the endcap, but I’m planning to eventually use a TT-shroud, with a longer barrel, and I don’t know how long the portion of that shroud is that goes inside the frame. when I get that measurement I’ll drill 8 more holes. This gun, using the shorter barrel mount and internal baffle/insert is already producing 5-shot groups of 3/4″ at 50 yards (H&N Baracudas.) The Baracudas, in my opinion, are not ideal for hunting or dispatching animals. The H&N Grizzly pellets are ideal though, in my opinion. Here’s 2x videos to reiterate that point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwGshuloADc and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bpm3xeKEab8
It seems like you may be getting to much dwell time from your valve. Next time you shoot down your psi and can drain your tank remove the valve and make sure the valve retention nut hasn’t unscrewed.
If there isn’t enough back pressure from the valve spring to close the valve quickly after each shot then to much air escapes and that will reek havoc with your accuracy and bell curve( fps spread per shot)
Same thing can happen if the top hat gap is to much.
With unregulated guns best accuracy,fps spread,and shot count is achieved with a quick dwell time for the valve and just enough air per shot to efficiently launch the pellet without wasting air. Its tempting to try and get more fps with more air, that will also produce the previously mentioned negative affects. With a talonP and a .25 cal 12” barrel about 800fps is the max you can shoot efficiently without wasting air and effecting accuracy.
More fps/fpe is best produced with longer barrels, letting the longer dwell time in the barrel produce the energy.
Anyway, just some things to consider.
Next time your inside the valve make sure the valve spring is pushed tight against the valve seal. If the valve spring is weak or damaged replace it and see if things improve.
I’m not publicly listing prices yet. Anyone interested in a kit can PM me for the current cost. The cost went up a little from the 1st batch,but is still 30% lower than it eventually will be. The Maddog version of kit is even less in cost, but you will need to contact Maddog for the cost of a stock.
Next batch will be 12 kits. 5 people are currently on the list. Hope to have them ready by the end of January.
So whats going on with the availability of this kit? Im very interested in ordering one. How much are they, and whats the turn around time?
The air from the 9-slots on the new barrel mount overcomes the spring and powerwheel, using the rubber washer as a seal, I believe. In my opinion, to use the 9-slots effectively there needs to be both an external and internal o-ring on the rear barrel bushing (like OEM.) Tonight I finished turning and drilling the sleeve for blocking the front 6-ports: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pt1mwvpjsm54kr9/longbarrelmount.jpg?dl=0 Will try to test tomorrow, to see if there is clipping, etc.
Again, in my opinion, the longer slotted barrel mount with the 6-ports closed off is pretty quiet. But getting my microlite bullpup as quiet as possible is not really my objective, for now. Rather it’s to make this gun as accurate as possible. My thought is that getting the rapidly expanding air behind the pellet to divert away from the pellet, even for a very short time period will help to produce more accuracy. I already have 8-holes drilled in the frame, just ahead of the rear bushing. I want to drill 8 more holes, just behind the endcap, but I’m planning to eventually use a TT-shroud, with a longer barrel, and I don’t know how long the portion of that shroud is that goes inside the frame. when I get that measurement I’ll drill 8 more holes. This gun, using the shorter barrel mount and internal baffle/insert is already producing 5-shot groups of 3/4″ at 50 yards (H&N Baracudas.) The Baracudas, in my opinion, are not ideal for hunting or dispatching animals. The H&N Grizzly pellets are ideal though, in my opinion. Here’s 2x videos to reiterate that point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwGshuloADc and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bpm3xeKEab8
Man I’m telling you guys this has really got my interest, I’m itching to buy a talonp for my first pcp and this kit is making a huge difference in my choices, would love to hear a video of the difference in the barrel mount with it slotted instead of the baffle insert, can’t wait for hoots point of view.
:hoot:
Put some serious hurt on his butt for certain!
That kit is worth waiting for. January will be an interesting month. WOK may need to start a new catagory “Talon Bullpups”….
Hoot:
I’m really looking forward to your gun Hoot. I’m on the list for a kit, I’m hoping to pick up a gun soon. I had a P a couple years ago but ended up transforming into a different gun and have since sold it. Here’s pic of it with a coyote I killed in my yard.
:hoot:
Well, I ordered an R&L 16″ barrel for the TalonP kit being put together. Randy’s going to cut down an 18″, 12 mm Talon barrel, and put a nice crown on it.
I’m not concerned about noise using the MicroLite kit using the 4″ longer barrel, because “quiet” is not the purpose that kit turns me on! It makes a TalonP a “Bullpup”, and that’s plenty enough gain for me. Add a Maddog stock on that setup and things begin to form up in an interesting manner.
I can make the TalonP more quiet. Plus, I’ve got a few other tricks up my long sleeve, with a little help from John Hagan Tool and DonnyFL.
Stay tuned! A number of modifications regarding the TalonP are going to happen in January. It all starts with the MicroLite kit and the Maddog stock! That opens the door to interesting possibilities not viable in the original TalonP factory platform.
Lots of pictures, lots of details, lots of results…this setup is going to make the factory TalonP wilt in comparison of performance, function, and looks.
Hoot:
:hoot:
Not yet Lee. I don’t have the gun back from the guy doing part of the modifications.
I suspect it will be at least a couple of weeks before I get the gun. Season’s, holidays, etc…slows things down a lot. These guys need some family time.
I’ll keep everyone posted on the results when the gun arrives.
Regards,
Hoot:
Any results yet Hoot?
Well, I got to shoot the gun with the new setup, this afternoon, but it didn’t go so well. I shot 7 shots across the chronograph, but the closest 5x were 25fps apart. Then I looked at the powerwheel, and the rubber gasket that’s situated between the rear barrel bushing and the powerwheel was pinched in the forward part of the powerwheel cutout, causing the powerwheel to rest about 3/16″ rearward of it’s normal place. I can share my opinion on this matter, but it could be totally wrong. I put the 22 1/8″ 5mm barrel back in the gun and continued my testing with it.
Man that was fast just mailed it Saturday. Good idea on the felt.
Dave,
Your package arrived, today. Thank you, very much! I put the .25 barrel back in the Talon-P, along with your new, long, slotted barrel adapter. It was completely dark when I finished, so I stepped out on the porch and fired a few shots. WOW! That’s quiet! I intend to order a sheet of 1/8″ or 3/16″ felt and make a long and short wire cylinder, from hardware cloth, to hold it in place against the inside of the frame. Perhaps it can be quietened even more with the sound dampening of the felt.
Less than 5lbs and 28” long.
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Thank you for posting that, Dave! You definitely seem to see all the way through my babble right to the heart of the issue. I did get to shoot 2x 5-shot groups with the Grizzlies. Both were 2 1/4″ @ 50 yards. I’ll have to shoot the Baracudas again, to determine if there’s clipping, or not. According to the “TNT Gothic Airgunner” fellow, the H&N Grizzly “pellets” seem to like just over 1000 fps (BTW that’s an interesting and extremely knowledgable guy, concerning shooting.) I haven’t chronographed the Grizzly ammo yet, but I doubt if I can get 870 fps with the 12″ barrel and Talon-P valve. You’re right, a 24″ .25 cal. barrel, minus the choke portion, is on my mind.
*Update* I’ve done a lot of changing the tophat gap since I got the Talon-P. Everytime that I chronograph the gun the velocity avererage would drop. On friday, Jan, 1st, I chronographed the H&N Baracudas and they were averaging 855-fps for 5 -shots. I looked down the valve stem opening and apparently the thin wall of the stem was getting crushed inward every time that I retightened the 2x tophat screws and this was really constricting the flow of air. To make a long story short, I turned (on a mini-lathe) a new one piece valve-stem (tophat.) I drilled it lengthwise to .220″ and instead of 2x intake ports, in the rear, I gave it 3x (like Dyotat does): https://www.dropbox.com/s/1icbiofhg7ddssd/valvestem.jpg?dl=0 I’ll try to test it as soon as possible. This time of year there is not much light late in the evening, so the chronograph doesn’t work.
*Update #2* The 1-piece valve-stem that I made seems to be a success. Now, 5-shots average 882 fps for Baracuda 31.02s and 878 fps for H&N Grizzly 30 g. This is at PW 6.5. However, the gun is now using 150-psi per shot, whereas the gun was using 90-psi per shot with the OEM valve-stem/tophat, @ PW 6.5. I’m not certain what this means, yet, but maybe it’s just a limitation of the 12″ barrel. Another problem arose and it ended my shooting session. The little, soft, white seal in the quick fill nipple pinched again, as it has several times now, between the stem and seat. This time it put a big crack in the seal. I just found the smallest o-ring that I could find, from my collection, and installed it. It seems to hold air fine, for now. This has been an ongoing problem since I’ve had the Talon-P (about a month, now.) I’m thinking about ordering one of the Chinese fill ports, as the “check valve” design looks like it would be much more reliable, to me.