Mihec .22 bullet mould
What do you guys think about this…
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=164775
I made a search about this guys work and its unbelievable awesome.
Here are some of them.
http://i55.tinypic.com/2lj1i7k.jpg
http://www.leadandbrass.com/miha275_44.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/jptowns/cannont2ifolder/websize/IMG_0345.JPG
All Replies
Killerqueen: TJ doesn’t have a link; you have to call him at: 1-859-635-5560.
The guy hammer forges all of his barrels himself and I find that his selection of calibers, ODs, twist rates and over all lengths to be somewhat astounding! TJ doesn’t take a credit card or Pay Pall but; if you really want one, I am sure that one of the guys here could work something out with you. TJ charges $4.25 US per inch of barrel and he can make you one up to 5 foot 10 inches long if needed.
You could also check into buying a quality .257” center fire barrel from a quality barrel maker in Europe. If it is a quality .257” barrel that has a .250 bore and .257” groove, 1 in 14 inch twist and they will turn it down to .560”-.600” OD, you should be golden! The reason that a lot of the guys use the TJ barrels here is, you can get them in the .560”-.600” OD range and they work on the Condors without extra machining.
The TJ barrels are made to be used as a barrel liner for a gun with a worn out bore that has sentimental value. You can buy a TJ barrel, have your gun’s barrel bored out to take the TJ liner and have the liner fitted to the gun. Doing that saves the looks of the gun and you get a gun with a new bore. It just so happens that the OD of the TJ barrel is also the OD that works for us air gunners.
The guys here use .257” because, from what I have read, it is really hard to cast a quality .22 bullet. The links that you posted show .22 bullets with 3 or more driving bands. Unless you have something that has a lot of excess power behind it, you won’t be able to drive those bullets at a suitable speed due to the bore drag. The link that shows a .22 bullet with only one driving band that is in the middle of the bullet, won’t be very accurate. You should revise it to have a more rounded nose and a front and rear driving band if you want to get 100 yard groups under 1 MOA. I would be willing to bet that your 1 driving band bullet would give 3 MOA, 5 shot 100 yard groups, at best!
I very seldom get to disagree with Roachcreek but; I can this time. We don’t all use the TJ’s .257” here.
I have 2 TJ .257” barrels and 3 Hart .257” barrels for my Edgun Matador and FX Boss/Teddgun bull pup projects. Hart hand laps each one of their barrels before they ship them and they are therefore smoother internally than the TJ barrels. It could be an apples to oranges comparison as it seems that everybody here does fire lapping; you would just have to do more with a TJ barrel. The Hart barrels do cost around 3 times more than the TJ barrels.
I picked Hart because, Hart makes REALLY good barrels and they were willing to try turning some down to .560” OD for me. None of the other good barrel makers were willing to try. Hart doesn’t offer a barrel over 28” long.
Hopefully, I will have the parts that I am still waiting for and my reworked bullet molds back with in 2 weeks. Ed just announced that he is shipping some 30 cal Matadors this summer and I have been on the list for one for over 9 months. It will be a .257” before I am done with it.
I REALLY didn’t want to have to invest in and learn how to cast bullets so: I sunk around $1500-1700 in quality RCE .257” swaging dies and a RCE swaging press. I thought that swaging would be easier, cheaper and quicker than casting. I have round nose, Keith nose, flat base and hollow base dies in .257”. I tried my swaged bullets in my Hart barrels and the results were horrible! To you guys out there that are thinking about swaging air gun bullets: DON’T!
I haven’t got to shoot any of my cast bullets: yet. LBT sent me molds that dropped cast bullets at .254” and I needed .258”. I resized around 200 of them down to .251 and sent them to Knifemaker. The heavy ones are shooting pretty damn good out of his Condor with the crappy LW choked barrel! Plus: I have heard that KM couldn’t hit his ass with both hands without Manuela showing him where his ass was! 😯 😆
I should have my resized LBT .258” molds back next week and I hope to finally have everything up and going in 2 weeks. I hope!
This spring/summer/fall should be very interesting!
Killerqueen: the best advice that I can give you is to listen to the other guys here on the TAG! They have seen and done it all! I am just trying to learn.
Could you please give me a link?
KQ,
I hope they are more consistant to groove and bore diameter than what their air gun barrels are, they seem to differ from batch to batch.
TJ barrels is what we use here for 257 barrels.
RC
I am already searching for one..
Hey guys..i didnt knew that LW released new barrels especially for big bore airguns.
Does anyone of you tried them?
They didn’t even added them on their catalog. i just saw an anounce at “news” section of the site.
I got to get a .257 Bbl. All this talk is kill’ln me! 😆 😉
Mike
Well if you consider that the US Ball M80, the 147 grain FMJ 308 round is thought by those who have used, myself included, it to be effective only to 660 yards where it goes subsonnic, I would say as long as you stay super sonnic your okay.
You avoid the damaging shock waves experienced by air craft by going to super sonnic inside your barrel, but things will get unstable as you enter transonnic into subsonnnic at the other end.
In BPCR shooting with the big 45 slugs, we endeavored to stay subsonnic for best accuracy. Target 22LR is always susonnic.
Now about the best caliber for a 200 FPE bullet:
In my Haley 257, the 257420 73 grain bullet at the edge of supersonnic, 1130 FPS at my elevation and humidity, I am right at 203 FPE, but I get best accuracy a bit lower than that. So I try to get closer to transonnic with a heavier bullet like the 81.5 grain NOE bullet which is at 213 to 220FPE at 1085 to 1100 FPS. The Hoch 109 is pushing 270 FPE at 1070 which is the highest velocity I have gotten from it on a warm day.
Tofazfou Dyotat Talondor is about 100 FPS under al those figures.
Realizing that you can’t get much furtheer than 1100 FPS with any big bore air gun, it makes sene to go at least to .257 bore and the heavier bullets for it if you want to break 200 FPE.
Also for what it is worth, the Hoch bullet will penetrate 22 inches of flesh at 300 yards at 1070 FPS and 26 inches at the muzzle and it has a maximim range of 2383 yards at maximum angle and even at that range it grounds itself at 43 FPE.
You don’t want to shoot crows in a crowded eviroment with that baby.
RC
Nice Rifle and excellent craftsmanship on leather gear…that’s why everytime you talk i m full of ears although you are so far from me.. a real gun-lover who respect the nature.
Now…this is my old topic and im not able to purchased a .22 mold again while recently as i told you above i m thinking seriously about it.
Which cal do you think is ideal for a 200ft/lbs+ rifle?
Another question is..if i shoot a .22-.25 bullet (40-50gr) at supersonic until 250+meter can it be accurate on that distance if it pass transonic at 270 meter or it will have a stability issue about its weight?
…or it is better to use heaviest bullet at subsonic with the same power rate..?
Iam asking that because i found my .22 bullet accurate enough and i m not really sure what may happen if i push it harder..
I am gonna find out next or in two weeks from now….I m just impatient for the result.
Cash is just liquid guns.
I see you have a GSD.
I have had so many guns, but this one is my favorite, and most expensive, I had $6000.00 in it before I was thru, and it was my 2nd most accurate cast bullet gun, a 45-100 Sharps Borshchardt. stocked, engraved and finshed by the masters of the day, Fischer, Wilson and Dave Turnbull.
I used a Hoch nose our tapered bullet in it also. It has a Krieger barrel and a custom Montana Vintage Arms hand made scope in recoiling mounts
I gave it to my son for his service in Iraq and he now owns it.
The leather gear I made myself and put the wear on it after miles upon miles on horseback thru rough country.
RC
Its ok ….usually i use to be offended at my first post but everything its Ok after the second…. 😀
In the place were i live sometime using grenades to celebrate at our wedding but 12 years ago i found that airguns are more enjoyble and less illegal without have a killing machine reputation.
Personally i have 88 guns and 23 of them are airguns.
The most favourite of them is my Killerqueen.
It is a modified AA s410 and i experiment on this at least 4years.
Right now i sent the cylinder to England for a professional bluing company and i am waiting the final results while here where i live the winter is almost past.
She wears a 1:14 stainless steel (.223 remi) barrel and can shoot a 42gr casting bullet at 1175ft/lbs.
I work as a mechanic to an ore company and my skills are more than enought to machining my own molds.
I am a long range shooter like you because i want to belong on the “few”.
So after many trials and errors i accomplish 1.5-2 inch group at 220 meter but i am not happy because i need more distance and after 250-260 meter my results are terrible.
So start to consider something bigger and while i pay attention on .308 you give Bowman results and make me to turn 180° at smaller caliber…..thats why i m interesting.
By the way my new cylinder is 6″ longer and is made from 4130 steel just like AAs.
it have 3.5mm wall and mesure 35mm at diameter(breech too)
it can handle easily 300 bar.
Dont even think about a valve stem system…this belong to the past…
🙂
No problem QB, I thought you misunderstood me about the 25 bore and you were using a translator program, my mistake.
I travel extensively myself, my wife speaks three languges and I two, but unfortunately barely both. 😛 So I understand mistakes when using a 2nd or a 3rd language, and yes your english is fine my friend.
So sorry I offended you.
What the firearms barrels do QB, is they allow you to use off the shelf molds and sizer dies.
Hardly anyone has tried the 22 cast bullets with the exception of 22 lr slugs which seem to bee a dismal failure. Sizing cast bullets will always distort them, the more you size them the worse the problem becomes. So if your using a firearms barrel designed to shoot them from the start you by pass so many inherent problems.
You have a few excellent air rifle smiths in Crete, so you should be able to get a firearms barrel fitted, that is if you can import one.
When I was trying to use a LW barrel and finding a mold, I bought a 257420 and tried to size the .261 bullets it cast down to 253, in one operation, they were terrible. I finally had to order specifc mold from LBt to get the diameter I was after, it took 4 molds before I got that LW barrel to shoot well and a 5th before it really started to work well.
After Jerry of Jerry’s slugs turned me onto Imperial sizing wax, and I then tried two perations and only going to .255 they started turning in MOA groups at 150 yards with my Condor.
FPE and the more the better seems to be a big factor in shooting cast bullets accurately, especially at longer ranges, if your over 125 FPE with 22’s your on the right track.
It took me at least 100 lbs of alloy to learn that a firearms barrel is the way to go, and the heavier bullet you can throw, depending on your twist, the better.
Have you actuallly gotten a mold yet and tried it?
I forgot your question about the 1-14 twist. I use a TJ 1-14 twit on my Haley 257, the 109 grain bullet is about the heaviest I think I can shoot with it.
I had Jack Haley order me a 1-10 twist barrel and he has it, but with him being so ill from lung cancer and surgeies, I have no idea when I will see it. If you decide to go heavier on your bullets you might consider a .224 1-9 twist barrel, a slow twist will always shoot lighter bullets, but a faster twist barrel at the velocities we are shooting will usually stablize the heaveir slugs, and at the same time not over stablize the lighter ones.
Again, sorry if I offend you, at times I am like a bull in a china shop, what I don’t break I shit on. 😳
RC
RC..What makes you think that i used a translation program.
I m just trying to get some answers.
Is it wrong to educate myself through a discussion?
What makes you think that it was the first time i visited that forum?
Always spend time here on this forum reading and see what you,Dyotat100, Tofazfou, RJ porter and other members wrote,but i respect the fact that there are other members on other lands and have excellent results on .22.
Thats why i am here. .. cross-check opinions and find solutions in order to make conclusions.
At least i don’t think that the earth turns around me while thousand of people like me trying to get answers at the same problem…I hope this should be respectable.
Next time i will post a talking head on a video which will smile constantly if my writing makes you so aggressive.
About your pictures i have seen them hundred of times since the last time you posted them and believe me i really enjoy them.
You and your results are the reason i experiment more on .25 caliber but im still more accurate shooter on twenty two right now.
…and quess…i use a 1:14 firearm barrel on 128ft/lbs.
Sorry for my bad english .
KQ,
Don’t confuse jacketed bullets with cast bullets, the dynamics are not the same as how they react to firing with hot gasses vrs air pressure and the allowable differences in bore dameter to bullet diameter.
I am very familiar with the M 16/Ar 15, I was the 2nd man to ever cut a handle off one and make a flat top receiver and the first to win a major competetion with a flat top AR, in 1981. I swaged my own bullets to do it also.
Also don’t rely on your translation program for you oviously misunderstand me on the 25’s ability in airguns.
I have a 257 Haley Scadalous, it shoots sub moa out to 260 yards and is the most accurate cast bullet shooter, firearms included, I have ever shot, and I have been doing this cast bullet thing for over 40 years.
Tofazfou has hit pop cans out to 447 yards and I understand Dyotat has recently joined that elite group also.
Yes, John B does use the 257 and he also uses the 7 mm Haley with cast bullets. The thing is he always uses firarms barrels.
And that is my advice to you, if your going to shoot cast bullets in an air gun, and get the optimim accuracy, you need to get a firearms barrel.
You really need to spend some time here on this forum reading and see what Dyotat100, Tofazfou, RJ porter and myself have written on cast bullets in airguns before you mortage the family farm buying molds for airguns.
Regards,
Roachcreek
80 grain NOE 257 bullet at 260 yards from my Haley 257 Scandalous
Several sub moa groups fired back to back with my 257420 in Haley 257
This would be the “arrow” you speak of a 109 grain .258 Hoch nose pour tapered bullet with a BC far better tnan any 22 slug I know of.
proven route???….Hmmm…its sounds like “the smaller the caliber is the badest the accuracy is” and this is something i dont understand.
At least no M16s exist if this was true.
IMAO ..dont dump that the .25 in many cases works better but only under preconditions which in our days are favored by the bullet manufacturers.
For example if we had a .25 bullet with x weight and a .22 on the same weight,that means it must be longer to gain that weight so a faster twist needed.
Which one do you beleive that it have a better BC and be more aerodynamic?
For sure not the one with the big surface if we are talking for tha same type ,shape and weight.
Overall i beleive that .25 have a better shot count according its surface but only inside the barrel have privilege.
When it leaves from it….not something special against nearest smaller calibers.
Another one question…Why sir Bowman choose .257 (for long range shooting)instead the other large calibers that J.H offer?
If he can shoot so well on .257 imagine what he can do with a better BC bullet on one of his rifle “big brothers”…however 257 remain his favorite and always PROVE IT.
Off course everyone could say…why he doesn’t use .22.
Well…with that kind of power you need 80+ bullet and a .22 on that weight reminds an arrow….so..i think it is ergonomically unusual.
I don’t mean to piss on anybodies parade, but from my experience, you have to alter a LW barrel and your valve beyond the ability to shoot Kings to get it to shoot cast bullets.
Now of course the exception is Jerry’s slugs, and I have written at least a dozen times that an easy way to shoot heavy cast bullets is buy a bag of Jerry’s slugs.
But a lot of us want to cast your own. And if you want to do that with your condor, get a TJ barrel, buy a valve from Doug and get either the NOE 80 grain 4 cavity mold, or a Lyman 257420. You can also try and find a Haley 257 Scanalous, if you can. But be prepared to shoot what ever Kings and Kodiaks you have left in something else, because this route is not a either/or voyage.
But if you do that, you will own everything from the muzzle out to a quarter mile, and you will own it with a air gun in your hands.
In theory you should be able to mount a .224 firearms barrel on a Condor and buy a off the shelf 22 mold and do the same thing, but why when 25 caliber is a proven route.?
Regards,
Roachcreek
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OG..i realised what are you thinking of me…anyway you are wrong..i am not a bullet designer…not the one who you think that i am,and this is not a commercial break.
My Question to you is..If You don’t bet on yourself why should on someone else?
This is my favourite forum because is the only one with the most hardcore airgunners and always looking on that with the eye of the beholder…So i have read every thread,every post,every single phrase and i know well how the other Guys perform at their guns…BUT you have read nothing for me because i am not that kind of man who carry always a camera in his equipment and i m glad for this…When i go to shoot,i go to shoot…
So..overall this is the first time i talked too much.
Next time i will keep my fathers advice.”The Quieter you become, the more you are able to hear”
Hunter must have instincts and intelligence.Otherwise victim will escape…but…Intellect and methodicalness are parallel ways.
At least in my case ,i know exactly how to make an s410 outperforms many other guns,even if they are modified on classic way ,and I would have no problem to share any info if you want too.
I wasn’t born yesterday as many of you think.
Have you ever heard about the battle of Crete?
Do you know how many Nazi paratroopers killed from civilians by their own Guns….ALL OF THEM!!!….thats right,you heard right..We kill em all ,and we can kill because guns is our business and our culture too.
I m not saying that i m a genious but at least i m not clueless and selfish…Somebody teach me something and this have nothing to do if that person is my grandfather or TAG.
The point is that i learn while i m growing because i am a student of life….just like you my friend.
Thank a lot for all the info.