Never shot so slow & so good before
I’m still a rooky so I don’t feel bad telling on myself. I’ve shot aronnd 2,000 rounds thru my Condor, many different pellets, a .22×24″, a .177×12″ barrel, while making many adjustments to the TopHat. I went thru 3 or 4 AF pumps while getting the necessary? 3,000 PSI Fill. And now I’m down to what the pros on this forum have been saying all along i.e. ‘to fast ain’t no good’.
For the first time I filled to ONLY 2,300 PSI. I’ve been working on trying to slow down my H&N BARACUDA MATCH .22 x 21.14 grain pellets to a max of 990 FPS. I’ve screwed the TH from 0.090″ down to 0.060″ and back up to 0.070″ all the while screwing with the Power Wheel too. The PW set below 3 1/2 just messed up the FPS consistency and much higher gets supersonic. So, I settled on 4 full turns of the PW. My PW zeros at 10 so 4 full turns to 10 is where it wants to be. From setting the TH up to 0.070″ and shooting a few strings of 40 to 60 shots, I found it drifted a bit to more like 0.072″. So, still not achieving my goal of max 990 FPS, I reset TH to about 0.067″, left the PW at 4 full turns, and ONLY FILLED TO 2,300 PSI. My scope is zeroed for 46′ & 100 yd. and has been accurate for the 46′ thru most of my adjustments. So I went right to the 50 yard range where I expect to be on target using the 3rd mil dot above the crosshairs. There’s good shade there for the Chrony.
So, if you’re still withme, here’s the meat (string):
SHOT/FPS/Approx.PSI
01/856.68/2300
02/970.02/2282
03/968.24/2264
04/965.30/2246
05/976.44/2228
06/964.00/2210
07/972.60/2192
08/983.66/2174
09/990.02/2156
10/980.00/2136
11/979.52/2121
12/988.16/2103
13/998.92/2085
14/992.37/2067
15/994.98/2049
16/1002.98/2031
17/1000.41/2013
18/1002.98/1995
19/998.18/1977
20/1005.14/1959
21/997.52/1941
22/997.77/1923
23/996.62/1905
24/991.80/1887
25/985.82/1869
26/990.18/1851
27/985.34/1833
28/976.12/1815
29/972.05/1797
30/971.81/1779
31/971.11/1762
32/968.70/1744
33/962.39/1726
34/958.35/1708
35/953.52/1690
36/947.40/1672
37/941.80/1654
38/940.04/1636
39/935.39/1618
40/928.79/1600
There are some nice flat groups in this string and I’d never before shot with less than 1800 PSI so I wasn’t surprised as the last 10 shots began to drop more quickly.
My reason for this long post is my surprise how much tighter the last 2 groups of 5 were. As usual it was windy with 15 mph wind gusting to 21 mph.
My last 5 shots were side by side at 50 yd in gusty wind.
My usual has been 2-3″ groups at this range
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i fixed it.
😆 😆 😆
fucker ! 😆
i fixed it.
Hehe… he said pestling
Your right , dry firing doesn’t seem to take care of the problem . you have shoot the pellets in my experience.
I would like to try the e tac and fill nipple too, i think it would be cool to shoot off the bench and have my big fill bottle hooked up, with like 2300psi in it and sit and shoot until my fingers bleed.
There is a regulator for the big bottle too, but man it is expensive. dont know if i want to play that hard. LOL.
i sure liked your last 2nd string , what if you tried 2000 fill with that .067 and Pw 1
Powderburner, For the purpose of me learning I’ve included all shots from a fresh fill.
In my previous post, I asked Pab if he fills to eliminate the up hill slope of shots. I forgot about the effect of a fill up causing valve seat problems and inconsistent shots. Edward says the quick fill adapter solves the valve seat problem but I haven’t tried it yet.
As in some of my string posts, the first shot is very low (100 FPS more or less). Dry firing doesn’t use much air and probably doesn’t seat the valve as well so for now I just record everything.
I hope to get maximum accuracy out of this set up and have enough PW adjustment to crank it up for heavier pellets. The Barcuda Match 21.14 grain should be enough for small game out to 100 yards on a still day. I’m hoping someone produces a 30 grain pellet with as good a BC as the Baracuda.
i only use the flat part of the inverted bathtub as yaw call it. so when i find the curve and get it right for the set up i fill to a less psi and shoot with the most consistent part of the curve if i want to shoot for groups ,
then if i want to have the gun sitting for plinking or general pesting i can fill it up to the full curve psi or any where in the curve that i want ,for what ever shooting that i am doing at the time.
i always keep good notes , so that i can see where i was the last time that i messed with the gun. or i shoot off my pellet holder on the gun , so i know how many shots that i have taken on the fill.
you guys ever realize how much temperature changes your velocity and set up.
I had my condor shoootin from like 940 up to 980 or 1000 then back down with crossman HP before winter came in and the temp dropped, it would only shoot to low 900s all winter with same pellet, but i left it alone.
because i figured that when it warmed up it would change, and it did, now it is back up where i had it set before winter came in.
I love a challenge, if this air force stuff was easy i think that i would already have sold mine.
the gun will shoot just as accurate thru out the curve lurker, the group will just move around on the target.
as the pressure changes the group will too.in a full pressure fill which is 2300 for me, my group will be high 1/2″ and to the left 1/2” at 50 yards. if i fill to 1900 or 2000 i will be on the flat of the bathtub maybe 8 to 10 shots in front , so i get about 20 peak consistant shots.
Thanks for the chart Pab. It does look good.
For the 3rd string I wanted to adjust the TH enough to see what effect it would have on the 2nd string. Figuring it would cut the speed I upped the PSI to 2000. It caused some REALLY ERRATIC speeds at the higher pressures but improved as pressures dropped. I see the uphill slope can be drastically effected by to little TH. That string is pretty flat from shots 16-31 but a little slow. I want to see what effect a PW Increase will have on string 3. Do you think a “smidge” would be enough for that string? How much of a full turn would you suggest for strings 3 and 2? I haven’t tried less that full turns.
When you get the string you want, do you fill to cut out all the up hill slope? Are shots on the up hill slope any less accurate than equivalent speed shots on the down hill slope?
I won’t be able to shoot for a couple days due to rain and appointments.
i have found that what ever the combination of tank pressure or hammer weight that the power wheel preload is critical for consistency,
not enough power wheel and low or inconsistent shot in the string.
also lurker do you shoot a few times before you record a string or are these numbers right out of the fresh pumped up tank.
i always find that the first few shots from a fresh filled tank are inconsistent, fps, and in grouping. when i am grouping longer ranges i have a slighter target to the side of my main target that i shoot at until the gun settles down,
might be one shot , or it might be 3 0r 4 . until it comes into the consistency that i want for the long range groups.
i can see this on the target with out a crony or if i have the crony it back my finding up with what i see on the target.
the gun will not be in one tight group until the velocity variation comes tight, for the most part , but not always.
if you disregard the first inconsistent shots on some of your strings you are really getting close.
Pab keep up the good work , your a magician man.
That 2nd string….
Shots 1-25 in the second string are looking good. TH=0.070
Maybe a 2000psi fill and up the pw a smidge? Should just up the speeds a little and hopefully keep that string.
I don’t know when to quit so I did 3 strings of 32 shots today.
Baracuda Match 21.14 grain .22 cal. Condor with hammer lightened by 28% by moving the hammer spacer in front of the hammer spring.
TH=0.070, PW=0, and Fill to 2100 PSI
Shot…PSI…………FPS…….+or(-) from Avg.
1…….2,100……..842.32…….(69)
2…….2,080……..906.46…….(5)
3…….2,061……..851.44…….(60)
4…….2,041……..906.74…….(5)
5…….2,022……..748.70…….(163)
6…….2,002……..800.01…….(112)
7…….1,983……..910.35…….(1)
8…….1,963……..893.09…….(19)
9…….1,944……..830.58…….(81)
10……1,924……..934.17…….22
11……1,905……..936.12…….24
12……1,885……..949.18…….37
13……1,866……..951.87…….40
14……1,846……..939.24…….27
15……1,827……..952.99…….41
16……1,807……..942.53…….31
17……1,788……..957.29…….46
18……1,768……..946.36…….35
19……1,748……..916.69…….5
20……1,729……..941.58…….30
21……1,709……..947.70…….36
22……1,690……..942.09…….30
23……1,670……..942.31…….31
24……1,651……..927.94…….16
25……1,631……..931.00…….19
26……1,612……..929.00…….17
27……1,592……..922.84…….11
28……1,573……..921.30…….10
29……1,553……..917.46…….6
30……1,534……..915.93…….4
31……1,514……..913.44…….2
32……1,495……..907.21…….(5)
Standard Deviation 47.7
2nd String
TH=0.070, PW=1, and Fill to 1900 PSI
Shot…PSI……….PW…..FPS…….+or(-) from Avg.
1……1,900………1……931.29……..0
2……1,884………1……935.61……..5
3……1,869………1……947.99…….17
4……1,853………1……960.94…….30
5……1,838………1……965.00…….34
6……1,822………1……962.31…….31
7……1,806………1……960.10…….29
8……1,791………1……959.41…….28
9……1,775………1……964.77…….34
10….1,759………1……954.87…….24
11….1,744………1……954.04…….23
12….1,728………1……950.82…….20
13….1,713………1……946.66…….16
14….1,697………1……945.92…….15
15….1,681………1……938.37……..7
16….1,666………1……939.46……..8
17….1,650………1……933.66……..3
18….1,634………1……937.64……..7
19….1,619………1……928.86…….(2)
20….1,603………1……928.29…….(3)
21….1,588………1……923.76…….(7)
22….1,572………1……925.45…….(6)
23….1,556………1……916.69……(14)
24….1,541………1……916.28……(15)
25….1,525………1……912.13……(19)
26….1,509………1……907.14……(24)
27….1,494………1……893.95……(37)
28….1,478………1……897.66……(33)
29….1,463………1……896.06……(35)
30….1,447………1……889.02……(42)
31….1,431………1……888.50……(42)
32….1,416………1……879.08……(52)
Standard Deviation 25.2
3rd String
TH=0.067, PW=1, and Fill to 1900 PSI
Shot…PSI……TH……..PW……FPS………+or(-) from Avg.
1……2,000…0.065…….1……739.50……..(153)
2……1,988…0.065…….1……871.30……..(22)
3……1,975…0.065…….1……888.04……..(5)
4……1,963…0.065…….1……906.67……..14
5……1,950…0.065…….1……919.69……..27
6……1,938…0.065…….1……919.48……..26
7……1,925…0.065…….1……837.42……..(56)
8……1,913…0.065…….1……824.30……..(69)
9……1,900…0.065…….1……809.64……..(83)
10…..1,888…0.065…….1……821.45…….(72)
11…..1,875…0.065…….1……716.82…….(176)
12…..1,863…0.065…….1……864.02…….(29)
13…..1,850…0.065…….1……941.43……..48
14…..1,838…0.065…….1……885.25…….(8)
15…..1,825…0.065…….1……790.40……(103)
16…..1,813…0.065…….1……941.43……48
17…..1,800…0.065…….1……955.17……62
18…..1,788…0.065…….1……938.15……45
19…..1,775…0.065…….1……946.58……54
20…..1,763…0.065…….1……949.70……57
21…..1,750…0.065…….1……928.72……36
22…..1,738…0.065…….1……935.39……42
23…..1,725…0.065…….1……939.53……47
24…..1,713…0.065…….1……926.37……33
25…..1,700…0.065…….1……926.16……33
26…..1,688…0.065…….1……930.93……38
27…..1,675…0.065…….1……932.65……40
28…..1,663…0.065…….1……927.65……35
29…..1,650…0.065…….1……925.74……33
30…..1,638…0.065…….1……913.99……21
31…..1,625…0.065…….1……916.21……23
32…..1,613…0.065…….1……905.92……13
Standard Deviation 61.8
Shots 16-31 Standard Dev.= 11.36
I’m brain dead after all that pumping and deep breathing so I’d appreciate anyone picking apart the details and offering suggestions as to what to do next.
Thanks especially Pab and Maw
Pab, I’m shooting H&N Sport Baracuda Match 21.14 grain .22 caliber.
They have the highest H&N BC. Apparently higher than the 21 grain Kodiacs that are no longer sold as Match grade.
I might as well lower the PW and see what happens. At “0” it will still be equivalent to the original Spring set at about 2 1/4 Turns.
If that doesn’t get the FPS down I’ll try reducing the TH to 0.067″ where the sweet spot appeared to be with the original Hammer configuration on this Condor.
This is FUN! I’m still laughing about the first shot that dribbled out at 180 FPS and totally amazed by the Flat 1,109-1,122 FPS readings with the PSI down to about 1830 at shot 18 and down to about 1606 at shot 32 in the last string. BTW, I get the PSI per shot by subtracting the ending psi from the beginning and dividing by one less that the total number of shots. It probably varies a little but I think its good enough to determine how high to fill the next time.
In calculating the Standard Deviation for the last 16 shots I get 5.63. If I leave off the last shot of 1122.49 FPS I have 15 shots with Standard Deviation of 5.52.
Well, gotta get ready to head to the range. Tomorrow it’s gonna rain again.
That last 15 looked good, but as you said, too high.
Even at 1900 odd psi you are getting 1100 fps !
What pellet are you shooting, i forget?
Lowering the th may help. At the higher pressures its not being cracked open consistantly. Also maybe that new spacer/spring config may be monkeying around with the hammer?
Maw, that sounds like a plan. I hope to see a big flat bottom to the inverted bathtub curve and I’m wondering if this configuration will give the down hill slope without removing or reducing the Spacer. Maybe I can get to the range again tomorrow.
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For the 3rd string I wanted to adjust the TH enough to see what effect it would have on the 2nd string. Figuring it would cut the speed I upped the PSI to 2000. It caused some REALLY ERRATIC speeds at the higher pressures but improved as pressures dropped. I see the uphill slope can be drastically effected by to little TH. That string is pretty flat from shots 16-31 but a little slow. I want to see what effect a PW Increase will have on string 3. Do you think a “smidge” would be enough for that string? How much of a full turn would you suggest for strings 3 and 2? I haven’t tried less that full turns.
When you get the string you want, do you fill to cut out all the up hill slope? Are shots on the up hill slope any less accurate than equivalent speed shots on the down hill slope?
I won’t be able to shoot for a couple days due to rain and appointments.
A smidge would be….ummmm…. half a turn.. 😉
Up the 2nd string settings to 2000psi and give the wheel half a turn. I don’t use a pw so I’m not sure, but your 2nd string numbers are telling us you are in the right area now, so its gonna be small adjustments around those settings.
Yes, I fill to only inside the ‘meat’ of the string if I’m going hunting, otherwise I’ll fill to the full pressure of my set up. I only need 10 good shots if I’m killing stuff, but I like a good 20 odd shot count for target.
And the reason for this fine tune is so you can have a good 20+ long range shots with NO poi change.
I don’t find the uphill shot at say 920 is any more/less accurate than the downhill 920. If the gun is set up right, it should be using the air pretty efficiently all the way through the string.