New .308 air gun bullet for my Corsair
Wanting to go lighter in the 308 bullet category, i bought a LYMAN .311 RN mold and had it HP’d. The bullets were then sized to .308 as per my Corsairs preferred liking. These bullets look real promising as they have a RN profile with a nice looking ogive. Just from measuring different areas of the bullet, it seems as though the contact areas of the bullet are gonna be way less than the other bullets that i’ve cast as they are of a FP design and the walls of those bullets are straight and long therefore having more friction.
These bullets weigh in at 128.5 grains which is close enough to my goal of 125 grains. The mold is originally a LYMAN .311″/130 gr RN mold:
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oooh shinny!!!!
Those look great tof.
In regards to that Volunteer bullet, I doubt that it would be too heavy for the Ranger, but it has a long bearing surface with many narrow grease groves, how does that effect performance?
I ask this because I see you guys shooting bullets that I used to consider good candidates for Black Powder in that they had fewer but larger grease grooves and as a result packed plenty of lube to counter act fouling, in the case of air guns it would seem like less bearing surface= less friction=more velocity.
Sorry for all the questions, but going down this air gun/casting path negates so much of my mould selection experience.
Roachcreek
If you request the lube be left off, it shouldn’t be a problem. Might depend on how they go about sizing if lubing/sizing is done in the same process/equipment, and whether or not you ordered sized slugs, or as-cast. I’m not familiar enough with lubri-sizers and such to know.
I have virtually ZERO experience testing bigbore airguns/bigbore airgun slugs at the power levels the Ranger achieves.
That said, I strongly suspect that the narrow band advantage becomes less pronounced as power increases.
CygnusX was getting 550fpe out of his .458Talon shooting heavy commercial “hardcast” stuff when he brought it to a hog hunt we both attended a few years ago. I wish I could remember the exact design and weight of that hardcast desing Cygnus brought. It looked like a typical smokeless-powder .45-70 commercial design to me…….omewhere around 405-450grains I think.
I had brought my chronograph to the hunt, along with some VERY soft lead .46caliber 500grainers I had picked up for cheap at the local black powder shop specifically to test in CygnusX’s .458Talon (DAQ barrel). They were, or at least strongly resembled the Lyman #457125 design and I believe produced just over 600fpe in that .458Talon. At .46caliber to boot!
I suggest e-mailing Veral Smith at LeadBulletTechnology before buying any mold ESPECIALLY when it comes to hunting designs. He has already cut a few airgun molds in at least two different calibers……even 360, and 425grain .45 WFN airgun designs that look to be practically un-stoppable out of a 700fpe air rifle.
Marvin/Tofazfou/Butcher/Jerry,
In regards to that Volunteer bullet, I doubt that it would be too heavy for the Ranger, but it has a long bearing surface with many narrow grease groves, how does that effect performance?
I ask this because I see you guys shooting bullets that I used to consider good candidates for Black Powder in that they had fewer but larger grease grooves and as a result packed plenty of lube to counter act fouling, in the case of air guns it would seem like less bearing surface= less friction=more velocity.
Sorry for all the questions, but going down this air gun/casting path negates so much of my mould selection experience.
Roachcreek
Marvin,
Good point.
Regards,
Roachcreek
I cast all my own bullets . So ask Butcher about the store bought . He has info on that . I have boiled BP soft lube bullets and removed most of the lube .Then a final spray with break clean . Gas IMO is made for combustion motors not cleaning . Marvin
That is good information Marvin.
I used WW material for years, I was told that it had changed over the years, but I have never seen an actual breakdown to prove it, and I kept using WW material until I started casting for the Black Powder calibers, then I stopped using WW material all together.
I started buying casting material from Idaho, Buffalo Arms to be specific, it was close so the freight was not too bad, I would order it a 100 lbs at a time, 500 + grain bullets eat lead up fast, I generally used either 20-1 or 30-1 depending on the gun. Leading was never a problem, which suprised me, because I had bought into the harder is better theory.
I water quenched my WW bullets for a long time, then a bunch of us in a beer induced haze after a casting party had the light come on that told us we were scraping off any hardness that we were getting by resizing.
I have shot as cast when ever I could, and I used to make my own lube using bees wax and lanolin, in Black Powder of course you must not use any petroleum product or you line your bore with asphalt. But in the end buying bulk with SPG lube from Garvey was the best option. I would pan lube them in that I just set the bullets in a pan pured in the molten lube, let it harden in the freezer then seperated the lube cake and bullets from the pan and then pushed them out of the lube.
The pan lubed one worked best, I tried to never size bullets because I felt that it deformed them, that is why I have been relutant to size down 458 to 452, I have done that and the results were less than stellar. The best way I found to do it was in steps using the lee sizer dies in a reloading press and to it in two or more steps.
Some question I have, assuming with store bought bullets meant for PB applications, we must remove the lube? I have heard that you can just wash them in gas? Are there custom casters who will cast to diameter and sell them as cast?
Thanks again for the read Marvin.
Regards,
Roachcreek
Here is a good read for you . Yes it is about PB but I believe most of us are knowledgeable enough to be able to gather the info we need from it .Marvin
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm
Tofazfou,
Years ago, I think it was Herters, sold a boattail rifle bullet that had a radical drop off at the base. I was just a kid then so I do not know how they shot. Those 350 grain bullets would be pretty painless to find out if they work, $11.00 plus postage, if only we could try bullets from molds we were interested in sfor that kind of change to see if they worked before buying them.
In a firearm, I would think the trouble wiould be blow by hot gas melting the shank of the bullet, but we do not have those forces here, and if there is blow by air, it certainly is not going to collaspe that bullet.
So that Hollowpoint attachment you have made is attached to the mold? I always had trouble getting unwrinkled bullets with the traditional Lyman HP design with the seperating wood handled pin design, it was always too cool or at least cooler than the rest of the mold. I had a 457 that cast a mid 300 grain bullet and never got accuracy in any of my guns, the attached design for bases or hp’s always seemed better. I tried cutting back the pin and shoting them, but ended up with a flat nose before I was done and they never did fly well.
Regards,
Roachcreek
Gas checks work damn well for sure. What i’ve wondered is, how efficient they are cutting through the air compared to lets say a flat base or BT bullet. Of course the BT would be the most efficient but, i wonder if that STEP in the rear of a GC bullet helps it be more efficient?
Someone asked me if air blew by the bullet cause it was not a flat base but a gas check design. It doesnt cause just forward of the gas check is the rear bearing ring and then there is usually another or two as you move towards the front of the bullet. Doubt if very much air is gonna get around all of those grooves before the bullet moves a little forward and seals the bore.
I also shoot 425 gr Boat Tails outta my Jack haley with some GREAT accuracy and tons of power. I got those bullet from Western Bullet Co and they work bitchin.
Tofazfou,
I have wondered how the gas check design would work in an air gun, I assume you have no need for it due to the fact you have no heat.
The volenteer bullet looks like a good one also, i suppose you could polish it out a bit if it is too small, but why bother if you have a professional who can do it.
Part of the fun of it all is casting isn’t it. My high water mark on casting was to use a lee pot, powered by my solar panels to cast a 45/100 430 grain flat nose slug and take an elk with it, I called it my solar powered bullet
I think I used to cast that 350 grain 452 for my Casul years ago, it was a great bullet. I also had a 429 320 grain 44 mold that was an NEI, I bought it from NEI when they were just down the road from me in John Day Oregon.
Regards
Roachcreek
RC,
Thanx man. Bro, i really can’t wait till you guys get your guns. I’m excited like i’m getting one….lol.
As far as the mold goes, his pin modification is called the “CRAMER” conversion and works like majic. You simply pour the molten lead as normal then once it cools, you turn it over and open the blocks as NORMAL and use either your wooden dowel to knock loose the bullets. In other words, you treat this mold just like you would a normal mold….Pour, open blocks and drop bullets on tray then repeat over and over.
erik can also, modify a mold like, making the bullet diameter wider or he can align crocked molds and weld on molds, he can make a HP cavity anyway you want it. Deep or Wide…etc etc etc. He is really good.
I also know he is the guy Robert Vogel uses.
RC,
Also, here is a super heavy 451 mold at midway usa in which im sure the bullets will come out of the mold at about 452: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=497427
Here is also a pre-made bullet at around 325 gr and its 452″. you can buy these and test em out in your gun:
http://www.westernbullet.com/ly4gr16.html
The other thing you can do is to buy a 457 bullet mold to your liking then size it down to 452. That way, you will have a huge selection of heavy bullets for your gun. if you have a reloading press with standard 7/8×14 TPI then you can easily find a 452 sizing die for about 17 bucks at Midway usa.
I am sure expecting to burn a lot of air, it was the main reason I got the Shoebox, then three 44 cuft tanks and the Pygmee tanks and now the Booster to top the gun off at 4600 PSI.
I am after power mostly, but a good thing about the 452 bore, and I had to sell mysell on that bore size, at first I would have rather had 457, is that you can just buy cast 452 45 LC or 45 acp bullets by the 500 count that are used for loading those calibers. Mcvey claims it is what he uses and that it takes a lot of the reason for casting out of the equasion.
But I will probably hunt around for a 430 grain 452 mold or have one made with a big flat nose. That is sure an elk stopper in my experience with the 45/100.
But for now, I have 50 230 gr Hollowpoints and 50 385 grain Hp’s I got from Randy to start things off. I assume he gets his bullets from Vogel.
That HP conversion is interesting, I had never seen it done like that, do you just replace it with a gloved hand each cast?
Nice looking bullets by the way.
Regards,
Roachcreek
Just chronied 3 of em from a 3600 psi fill.
These 128.5 gr bullets are travelling at 880 FPS for 220 FPE
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Forgot to say, that Veral custom cuts his mold/designs in accordance with your particular barrels’/rifles’ requirements, or whatever your needs are if you have multiple guns in the same caliber, and are looking for an “all-purpose” design that would work in all your guns. You send him bore slugs, and cast impressions of that part (whatever it’s technically called) where the slug first contacts the barrel for each individual rifle you order a mold for…..along with some other info I’m sure.
Veral sure seems to know what he is doing when he speaks of designing an accurate hunting slug.