New RAW .357…Pics and some data….
Just the basics to fill the recent void of the NEW RAW 357…..
The gun is built on the New HM1000x action…. The action is “DEDICATED” for the JSB .35 Pellets and Magazine… the receiver is NOT Interchangeable with other RAW Magazines. Additionally it has a “HIGH POWER” spring set in it…. the Side cocking leaver makes it a joy to operate.
Additionally the HM1000x .357 sports a Aluminum LDC
The newer .35 JSB pellets are actually listed as 81 grain pellets… and have a much cleaner look to them. When I shot the original prototype gun earlier in the year the pellets were not a crisp looking. What I can say is…. they Shoot as good as they look!!
The magazine holds a wopping seven 81 grain pellets…. for a total of 567 grains of lead !!!!!
As mentioned in a previous thread… the HM1000x .357 will be offered in 2 configurations…..
REGULATED …. which seems I deal for the 81 grain Pellets…. and UNREGULATED for the Heavier cast pellet / Bullets.
As mentioned in the thread title….. SOME DATA….
Over the weekend I got the opportunity of a lifetime to shoot with Martin Rutterford and his NEW HM1000x .357.. AND I put it through its paces!!!!
We started approx 9:30am and ended at 4:00 ish… I did manage to pry the gun out of may hands for a few minutes to eat lunch!!!!!
OK… here are a few numbers… as mentioned before… I am not a hunter… but I have been shooting
Benchrest for about 3 years… I will say I wouldn’t rule it for being able to win a competition…(in the right hands)…..
If you are a Pig or Coyote or any thing smaller….HIDE NOW!!!!!!
now the data..
Regulated Version:
Muzzle velocity 81gr – 740 fps……. Velocity @75 yrds – 630 fps…..Velocity @100yrds – 596 fps
UN-Regulated Version (127gr Cast .356 dia)
Muzzle velocity 127gr – 670 fps…… Velocity @75 yrds – 618 fps …. Velocity @ 100 yards – 600 fps
…and before you do the Math… 127gr cast have 100 FPE of Energy at 100 YARDS….and the batch I
tested Fly as Straight as an ARROW !!!!!! (actually 101.55fpe….but who is counting)
…… Now for those that are interested…. here is a Photo of the Current Batch of RAW HM1000X currently being processed…..
Still working on a complete review…. with ALL the data !!!!!
As I offered before…. I will have the gun out for anyone to try it at this weekend Phoenix Airgun Benchrest Match….
I hope you enjoyed the Pics……
Mark
All Replies
Good stuff Mark R. I actually love seening a Rapid type gun in something bigger than 25 regardless of power. many years ago, ERNIE (aka Swift220) borrowed my Dragon Slayer 50 barrel in hopes of making a big bore Rapid. It was very interesting watching his progress. Even though the gun wasn’t a POWERHOUSE in 50, it sent round balls downrage with enough Oooomph to get the point acrossed. So seeing this gun in 30 or 357 has me peaked cause the valving and design of it and the ports seems more suited to no more than 357 cal to be decent. And since pellets are now made in 357, this opens up a whole nother world of opportunity as pellets are much easier to push than bullets.
So i say KUDOS to RAW
Now, onto the speed thing. Its and individual thing. But i have to say, today, airguns have made people LESS sensitive to speed and more sensitive to accuracy and that’s awesome. Alot of PB guys rely more on SPEED but more speed is also MORE FPE. They are one in the friggen same. You can’t have FPE without some SPEED. It has to be. But, for the guy who likes to shoot 50 yards and less, yeah, he doesn’t need a 30 or 357 to do 950 FPS. Its a waste or air. For the guy who shoots at 100+ yards, speed often is necessary. WHY? Well, flatter trajectory (speed, and high BC) keeps you from using all your scope adjustments. While 740 fps is a great speed for a pellet that big, it is being LOBBED no doubt. And YES, you can buy scope rings with 30 MOA built into them to make up for using less TURRET elevation. I’ve shot the 50 gr 30 cal JSB’s out of a FX Boss at 850 fps and man did those pellet drop at 100 yards compared to my 25 rapid and it was HELLA noticeable. but again, that’s a preference. was the gun accurate though……….yes it was and that counted more than the fps cause at 50 gr pellet going 850 fps is a KILLER and then some. So a 80 gr pellet at 740 should be even more of a thumper……..;). Hell, if i were to buy a Raw, i would probably TUNE it too my liking. I stand NEUTRAL on the SPEED issue for the reason that its up to the owner/shooter more than it is to the people who DON’T OWN THE GUN. For the people who would love one but think the power is LOW………HELL……….TUNE THE GUN! Its that simple. And i also know that part of the speed of that gun is making sure you get a decent amount of shots. That big ass bore takes up some serious airspace.
just my .02
BRILLIANT!!!
My Shooting Position… Nothing Fancy.. Pseudo Field set up.. With regards to DB reading .. ranged for 103 to 107 on the “A” weighting. The Readings were done approx 10 feet off to the side from the muzzle. (video to follow)
I did a video of me shooting “Real Time” from 25 yards to 100 yards…with the rig pictured above. With regards to “Come UP’s” for my Dope.. I did the SWAG… (Scientific Wild Ass Guess)… during the video… And I am proud to say I guessed good !! I will post all later.. but just to give you a taste….
50 Yards… it was gusting pretty good.. my guess was between 7 to 10 mph Full Value wind from the Left… Didn’t need to compensate much at 50 .. but it pushed the pellets pretty good at 75 yards…. ( and No I wasn’t aiming for the center of the steel, but more of a should or Heat/Lung …and Yes I Know Pigs are pretty Tuff..but it was just a field exercise…I could have just as easily stuck it in his ear…
So for me and what I would consider Good Hunting Accuracy… “Off the Cuff” so to speak… I feel it has great potential for its intended size game… If it was Coyote at this distance… Ummmmm I bet the Dog ain’t gonna see another day !!
Mark
(edited for spelling)
Mark
POST IT!!! POST IT!!! :rofl:
I agree with you- What is power, if there is no accuracy. I don’t care if I have 100+ fpe, if I can’t get lead on target. I’ll be very interested to see the rest of the data- It makes me feel happier about my Dawson .30 build. I was a bit worried it wouldn’t get the power AND accuracy I’m after. Now, I feel a bit more confident about it. I’ll just have to sort the pellets and go from there. I’m sure the Dawson is flowing the same if not more air than the RAW receiver, man I can’t wait until it’s done…
(I will Avoid any Comments to ELDY as I don’t know him and have NEVER Seen a Performance Review of his Products… Not being a HUNTER of Larger Game…ELK and SUCH….. I am Pretty Sure that ANY PEST… VARMINT..PREDATOR… HOG…. and my guess would be the Average size Dear in the Mid West …. May Argue that this has Plenty of POWER … Based on ITS TRUE Accuracy… But that is my Humble Opinion)
I have been running behind on the Rest of my data … and spent 1/2 a day at the range yesterday shooing the NEW RAW .357 for those that are Interested..The current Power restrictions as some people seem to be hung up on is “A BARREL PROBLEM”….the configuration (Twist Rate)…. limits the velocity to of the pellet to acquire true “GYROSCOPIC Stability”…well.. That is if you want REAL Accuracy !!!!
POWER is Easy…. Accuracy and repeatability … if that is not what a person is interested in I guess that is OK… For me, I have MUCH Higher expectations for Accuracy!!!!… From what I have seen from most “BIG Bore” airguns to date…you may get POWER … but limited shot count and accuracy….so from what I have seen this surpasses anything I have seen in this category …. 7 shot Magazine fed… 21 shots per fill.. ( I was getting more like 28…. so 4 Magazines).. Muzzle 740 ish depending on the Variance of the pellets, that gives you true 98 fps at the muzzle…81 FPE at 50 yrads.. and 73 FPE at 75 yards..
I have a Bunch of Photos… Targets… And Video… DB Meter Reading… For those that are Interested..
RAW Also Offer the Same Gun in an UNREGULATED Version…. Shooting 127gr Cast Bullets.. It produces Similar Accuracy performance.. But limits shots to around 12 on a 500cc Tank.. We did some Chrono measurements… It Holds a 100FPE at 100 Yards… again.. with better then necessary Hunting accuracy..
Hey Guys.. Sorry to be So Snarky… But as you know from my Previous Post… I work from True Objective data.. I don’t FLUFF data to make something that it isn’t………
Mark
Eldy, what is the hell is wrong with you? 😕 Why on earth would you think, much less say that your post will probably be deleted. WTF Guy! This is the TAG, Not the Yellow, and even if it were, there is nothing in you post to get it in trouble there either. Other than it not having the work Graphic in the title. And that is NOT required here!
Yes accuracy is the # one concern. However, Domed pellets have been proven to me at their most accurate at the 880 to 930 range for years! Unless you are shooting flat points that none of us have ever seen for the .357.
KnifeMaker
sorry Ced! RAW’s saying the .357 has specific parts… The mag won’t even interchange! You could get a .30 to replace your .25 though!! :rofl:
Being the Rapid/RAW fanatic that I am, I must say, she is sooooooo sexy.
Sooooooooooooo, is there a kit I can buy to convert my Rapid 25 over to 357? probably not huh? DAMNIT!
As an example I have been testing some NEW Barrel configurations in other calibers … one so far has been very impressive.
N.P. – Been following your hunting adventures for the last few years… very impressive. Not being a hunter my self. To me it is a kin to
Expensive cars… I don’t under why people get so wrapped up in it. Having been in the shooting sports for over 25 years I have seen many things come and go… and New stuff evolve to be Main Stream. I never try to judge how people spend their free time and expendable income.
Different Strokes for different folks ….. I personally spent a few years shooting a .338 Lapua at distances out to 2000 yrds. (factory ammo was $5.00 a Shot)… good job I was well versed in reloading.
With regards to “Portability” and “Manouverability” you have specific Ideal configuration…as an example, All the Big bores like the QB’s, Drummin Sinner, Haileys, are all 4 plus feet long. So application and tools are an individual choice.
Slyer5 – From what I know about hunting and such. ENERGY on Target and Shot Placement are what counts. Last time I checked Larger caliber Black Powder guns have taken a lot of Larger Game.
Did I read you right ? ….357 Korean barrel on the HM ? ….I’m sure it’s a typo because that would make a lot of people tear their hair out :biggrinn: :biggrinn:
On your other points, I agree with you, it’s all about personal wants/needs/likes :winkn: :winkn: :winkn:
Doug, you’re using a TJ barrel for the .30, right?
Do you know the twist rate of the .357 and what was tried in .30?
I’m using a 1-26 for .30 and the .357 is the same.
Doug… the Barrels are Korean made for RAW. Martin chose these from several makers that he prototyped with. They offer the best accuracy with Both Diablo Pellets and Cast Slugs. As you know the “QUEST” for the perfect Barrel – Projectile combination is a Loooooong Road…. with NO MAP!
As an example I have been testing some NEW Barrel configurations in other calibers … one so far has been very impressive.
N.P. – Been following your hunting adventures for the last few years… very impressive. Not being a hunter my self. To me it is a kin to
Expensive cars… I don’t under why people get so wrapped up in it. Having been in the shooting sports for over 25 years I have seen many things come and go… and New stuff evolve to be Main Stream. I never try to judge how people spend their free time and expendable income.
Different Strokes for different folks ….. I personally spent a few years shooting a .338 Lapua at distances out to 2000 yrds. (factory ammo was $5.00 a Shot)… good job I was well versed in reloading.
With regards to “Portability” and “Manouverability” you have specific Ideal configuration…as an example, All the Big bores like the QB’s, Drummin Sinner, Haileys, are all 4 plus feet long. So application and tools are an individual choice.
Slyer5 – From what I know about hunting and such. ENERGY on Target and Shot Placement are what counts. Last time I checked Larger caliber Black Powder guns have taken a lot of Larger Game.
Big slug of lead. Are you guys saying a monster pellet like that at 700 fps would not kill game? As I get older I see fps as less important than i used to. I was magnum everything in powder burners. 44 mag with with hard cast bullet at 950 fps is a killer.
I’m not really understanding at all where this rifle is, ….it seems a really weak shooter for hunting,
without considering the length and weight of the overall gun.
And who really wants a target shooter/plinker that is an 18 cents a round shooter ? …dunno, just me,…… but it makes no sense to me :confusedn: :confusedn:
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I respectfully disagree with much that is said here.
For one, Yes! Accuracy is King. And Game deserves our best. Anything less is irresponsible. However, there must be proper energy for the game being hunted as well.
Now I know 100 fpe sounds like a “LOT” for an off the shelf AG, and it is, But to forget accuracy is like the Gamo offerings on steroids. Grrrrr!!!
But although 100 fpe sounds like a lot, and is marginally enough for most of the game we can hunt, with in reason, a look at the PB world sheds some light on the subject.
Who here picks up a .22 short or low velocity long to go pig or yote hunting? NO BODY—–Thats who!
Why not? Because it is an underpowered pip-squeak round at it’s best. I doubt that you could find anyone to argue for the .22 Rimfire Short or Long for wild hog hunting. And why would they? It is irresponsible, and very un-sportsman like to intentionally use far underpowered rounds for hunting. Period! In fact, it would be considered Inhumane and Illegal in a lot of States!
Problem is, this new RAW offering is giving exactly that. Rim Fire Short and Long performance.
The argument here is being given that it has good enough hunting accuracy. And exactly what is that? It has always been my contention, that living query deserves the best accuracy we can give them. Not Poor accuracy and just call it good because no one is keeping a score at a match. This is irresponsible at best. And just plain ignorant at worst..
Why do so many people worry so much about bragging rights accuracy on paper, yep completely ignore field accuracy. When in the real world, field accuracy and our responsibility to cleanly take game with out undue suffering is the Only Time that Accuracy really Counts. Other than for our own ego. And just how important is that in the scheme of things? Isn’t life, any life more important than our personal egos?
Looking at that Pig target at 75 yards………………If my .257 shot that bad a 100 yards, I would be cleaning the barrel. Or finding what is wrong with it, or me. No way in hell would I take it into the field for a hunt! And if it was me causing such a poor performance, I would address it before making game suffer for my poor performance.
The only reason I am being so rough on the Accuracy shown here is the fact that accuracy was given as an excuse for low power utilization in the field. I see neither here. Power nor accuracy.
Add to that, that accuracy not only left to right hits, but also up and down hits. And at this very low velocity, that is going to make clean kills with this platform very difficult if not mostly a matter of blind luck in a lot of situations. Does wild game deserve such poor performance.
I love the Idea for this Gun, and its looks. But it has a way to go before it really has a place on the range or fields for the serious Sportsman.
Every one has opinions. This is mine. And it is born of a lifetime of hunting and field shooting.
KnifeMaker