OMG!!!!
Got an E-TAC
Tried to remove my valve with a spanner wrench and vise, nothing doing
Had to resort to the ole pipe wrenches
Fucked up everything
Does the valve really need be so tight?
Gonna do a rebuke on the SS valve
Little polishing and what not
Should be good to go, man that shit was tight
SAW
All Replies
It’s all good guys. Now, it’s Saturday night so I’m gonna tap-out and and go have a cold one. I’ll be back later if anyone wants to argue about anything at all. Yes it’s sad…I am getting old and no longer have a social life what so ever. My wife will spend the evening watching Lifetime (the anti-man channel) and I’ll be trolling the fishing and air rifle forums trying to pick a cyber fight.
No beef Bonestock
Most of the insults etc. on here are just jokes or ribbing someone.
I don’t count anything like this as an argument, just a bunch of personal opinions getting discussed.
But I can see what you mean, some person might come along with maybe a little less understanding than the regualrs here and do something wrong
Dave
Lol, very true Bone’
The stupidity of people has no limits. 😆
There was a guy who thought it would be funny to see what happened if he shot a blast of shop air up his ass hole, he died…..thats what happened 😀
Dave
See, that’s the kinda shit I’m talking about. If you got some mother fucker dumb enough to shoot air up his ass… Guys, I wasn’t looking for an argument. I was just thinking that maybe the manufacturer was just trying to avoid the possibilty of an accident from some dickhole. Now lets say this fucktard decides that after installing his e-tac, that his offset timing is very close and if he can screw that thing into the gun just a little further and tighter…Now when he tries to remove the bottle from the gun… I’m just saying, people are stupid. It’s a fact. Most of the guys on here would be just fine by hand tight and we would quickly recognize a problem. Then you got guys an here like Sawtime who break out the 24′ pipe wrench 😛 JK Saw
Just stick it up your arse if you hear any leaking 😀
There was a guy who thought it would be funny to see what happened if he shot a blast of shop air up his ass hole, he died…..thats what happened 😀
Dave
And another thing. The valve does not suddenly release from the bottle. You would start to hear air escaping as the valve came loose. Its at that point you quickly put the valve in your mouth and try to re-seal it with your tongue.
Well, no need to really assure me that, because I have done it multiple times and it in fact DOES easily unscrew from the gun. However, I only tighten the bottle into the gun as tight as I feel it should be, maybe you tighten it more.
Your exactly right Pab, if a person is so careless as to unscrew the valve instead of the bottle + valve, then they obviously shouldnt be around the gun or any high pressure application.
Each to his own, it doesn’t really hurt to tighten it with something so do whatever you feel will give you confidence.
Dave
You might be able to FORCE it at 400 odd psi, but you truely are a fuckwit if you don’t realise whats happening. If you continue to force it off in that instance, Darwins law comes into play and you deserve everything you get… 😉
Who here would apply so much effort to unscrew the bottle from the frame and not notice what was happening? Who here would screw there bottle onto the frame SO TIGHT that it would then be possible to unscrew the bottle from the valve??
I mean, fuck me, we ain’t children here are we? If you are capable of making such a HUGE fuck up, you shouldn’t be playing with grown up toys.
The area was done by PI*(9squared) since it is ROUGHLY the only substantial force to be acting as to create friction on the threads.
I am in no way trying to bullshit you 😀 I am also in no way really trying to agrgue with you, just practicing my understanding.
It is a bit decieving really about the force on the valve.
Okay, now working with turning forces
Turning moment = force * distance to the pivot.
The circumferance of the valve body (31mm roughly) is 97.4mm
Every 97.4mm the valve is turned through, the valve raises 1.5mm.
Thinking of a string wrapped around the valve, for one revolution, the string would be pulled 97.4mm, This means that there are two vectors.
This is where I get a bit hazy
After not really knowing where to go from here. This is what I came up with.
The main friction that keeps the valve in the gun is the friction between the rear of the frame, and the valve body.
so, (PI*15.5 squared)-(PI*11 squared) = 374.634924 mm squared
The area on the tank to valve would be (PI*13squared)-(PI*9 squared) = 276.460154 square mm
As much as I could find, the maximum of the average “Hand tight” was 20 ft/lbs = 27.116359NM
Say that the tank was screwed into the gun with 27NM of force and the friction between the valve and the frame is 100 (Generic number)
(374.634924 / 276.460154)*100 = roughly 74% of the friction
This really hasn’t come to anything but Im sure there is a way to work out the forces, but I am confident that anything over 1000psi in the tank, and the tank is attached to the gun with a sensible amount of torque, the valve is staying in the bottle.
This all really comes down to personal preferance, if you want to use a wrench or vice to tighten it, then thats fine by me but I have always done mine hand tight and only have has the valve come out of the tank rather than the gun once which was after a tank dump and I did use more force than I usually do to attach the tank to the gun.
Dave
Nope, we’re not done yet lol. At 500psi, 197lbs of force on the thread surface is nothing. Your not lifting it. I have a safe that weighs over 1500lbs. I can’t lift it but I pushed it along my ceramic tile floor to get it into my office. Same concept. BTW, how did you arrive at 254.5 mm squared area for force to act upon? What did you use for the length of thread when you made your calculation. I hold a Bachelor’s of Science degree in hydraulic engineering so don’t try to bullshit me now. I break test fittings loose under 4000psi all the way up to 1″ JIC almost every day. Yes wrenches are used and the torque is multiplied. I was just trying to state that the bottle COULD come unscrewed from the valve even when it has some pressure on it.
You would be surprised on how easily pressure will lock the valve in tight.
Let me think about this.
M18x1.5mm thread.
254.5 mm squared area for force to act upon.
0.394475789 square inches
500 psi = 500*0.394475789 = 197 pounds of load on the threads.
2000 psi = 2000*0.394475789 = 789 pounds of load on the threads
A full 3000psi fill = 3000*0.394475789 = 1183.5 pounds of load on the threads.
Unless you attach the bottle to your gun with a pipe wrench, hand tight with an elastic band around the valve body to get more grip is enough.
However, if you saw that the valve was unscrewing from the tank rather than the gun, there would be HIGH resistance, not like the loose threads when taking it out of the frame after overcoming the initial tightness.
Now children, you are excused from my physics class 😀
Dave
I can assure you that 300-400psi is not going to keep that thing from coming un-threaded. That’s still enough pressure to turn that bottle into a short range scud missle.
Once you got pressure in the bottle, aint nothin gonna release that valve from the bottle.
I think they make it so tight so that it doesn’t accidently come out when you’re removing the bottle from the gun.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Yep
It truly is all about Airforce coving their
ass
Man, I spent the day doing some polishing and reaming
I bored out the stem on my ss to 3mm
Polished everything, stem top hat brass nut
That holds everything together
I also put a chamfer on that brass nut as well
Also installed an E-Tac straight drop down
Pics and more to follow when I get outta the garage
SAW