Optimal air consumption
Hi,
My Cricket consumes around 2 bars per shot. What are the tricks to reduce the air consumption? I would like to hit 290ms with JSB 1.03. Now, I am close to 280ms. My reg is set at around 120 bars. I do not remember how many revolutions were made in firing valve after spring contact. HST is maxed out.
Uncle GKU, give us you magic insight, please.
All Replies
I also want to add that for those who place too much emphasis on velocity consistency, just because a pellet is traveling at, say 800 FPS from the chrono, doesn’t necessarily mean that the next pellet that travels 800 FPS will have the same speed the previous pellet carried on its way to the target (or at the target, at its extreme). If you can, place your chrono in front of your target to find out – being careful to place it in a secure position and that you know you won’t hit it – and you will almost assuredly discover that this is the case.
As long as you understand your gun, the principles of accurate shooting, and knowing what technique to apply you can hit whatever it is you are aiming at. Below is a photo of my pellet-stacking session some time ago with my Air Arms TX200 (.22) springer.
When I shoot my Cricket my forestock hand is placed just an inch in front of the trigger guard as that is the area that is closest to the gun’s balance point (My Cricket is the standard version with the bulldog stock). On my rifle at least – with the scope positioned as forward as it can get for proper eye-relief and to add some weight to the front – the balance point is right behind the trigger – and to add more stability when aiming. Mainly, accuracy is achieved through consistent trigger technique. Right when the shot breaks, I prevent putting any more pressure on the trigger so as to not add any more unneeded rearward pressure and leave my finger at the point it disengaged until the shot cycle has ended. For me, the key is to get especially intimate with the gun’s trigger, and that’s with any gun. I know when my Cricket’s shot will break and thus know when to no longer pull any further. From here on, it’s ensuring that follow-through is administered and letting the gun do its thing until the pellet hits the target and that the gun has completed the firing cycle.
Unless you have the eye of God, you cannot detect the very quick micro movement of the gun (through careful observation of the reticle’s motion). If you have a high-speed camera to record the movement of the reticle, if you view the recording in slow-motion you can see how the gun behaves during the shot cycle. Because all guns recoil and that it is impossible to prevent any movement, the best type of movement is when the reticle moves straight upwards or directly back, AND ONLY STRAIGHT UPWARDS OR DIRECTLY BACK.
Speaking about holding types – which technique you find the most accurate with Cricket?
That is a great group Jan! Great shooting! Now, try emptying one whole magazine to see if you can still get a group like that or better.
Generally, all the newest bullpups are equal in accuracy to the older ones because they have superb regulators and top quality barrels. Whoever claims this bullpup model is not as accurate than that bullpup model simply hasn’t understood what the gun likes and how it demands to be shot and that he/she needs to practice more.
Just because you can shoot Gun A accurately does not always mean that Gun B can be shot just as accurately (with all other factors considered) if you apply the same type of shooting style on Gun A that doesn’t work on Gun B. In my experience, a lot of guns demand a unique type of hold, pellet, trigger technique, shooting style, etc. More importantly, I’ve found that the rifles I own must be shot with a different technique than the others. That’s the challenge of owning more than one gun; you’ll have to spend the time to find out what each likes to be fed and how it wants to be shot. And just so that I get it out there for like the umpteenth time (no offense to anybody): DON’T BE FOOLED – EVEN PCPs CAN BE HOLD SENSITIVE! And yes, even PCPs recoil, just not as much as springers.
My Cricket is amazing. It is so accurate it can hit the head of a matchstick consistently all day long. And that’s with the gun set to 12-13 FPE shooting matchsticks at 27 yards (my available shooting area in my property). My Cricket is also one of the first generation ones, and it still has the older, full-delrin valve. It is a gun that I don’t think will ever be sold or replaced. If I were to get another bullpup, it would be the Vulcan mainly because it is the only pup right now with a cocking lever to accommodate a left-hand shooter like me.
Safe shooting! :thumb:
😯 Man, my friend Jan can shoot !! 
There is this things about the Crickets that I have.
Is that it just loves to be shot, I mean really SHOT the more the better it’s getting !!
I have been looking into buy another Airgun(s), but crap I have been very hard press in doing so lately.
Because of the fact that no one has shown they can out shoot my Crickets by some reasonably amount,,,, ,,, , , as of yet.
From all the new additions lately the only one to sparked an interest so far is the baby Taipan Mutant.
I love that trigger group it possesses, but it’s still a very new contender with an unknown history of shot groups seen yet !
So in the meantime it might be awhile, but I’ll be happy shooting my Crickets and will be sitting back to see what happens you know. :winkn:
~ ATB ~ GKU
Great and productive discussion guys. Thank you all.
I thought about 130 bars on the reg but looks like 120 bars is optimal. I can just tweak the valve stem retention spring. I think thay 277ms which I currently have on 15.89grain JSB is not that bad.
With JSB 18 g @920-950 fps the air consumption will be greater then what I’m/we’re getting at 880 fps, about 1.5-1.7 bars/shot or so.
~ GKU
😀 Thanks Greg my friend for nice words 😉
I tried (I experimented) with higher speed 280mps (18grain) regulator 130bar but it was´t accurate and air consumption was terrible. I give a question my self. Need I so high speed? Answer, no I don´t need it. I need accuracy gun not powerfully and inaccurate gun 🙂
I changed pressure for regulator and try to research optimal air consumption for the best accuracy and for my barrel is the best speed 266-268mps /877-880fps/
Here is target from yesterday for 62 meters outdoor and slightly windy.
4 shots in very good group and just one slightly out but it is still good.
GKU, I totally get what you said. You hit the nail on the head! Nice Cricket too!:D
Yes, but sometime it is not that easy to see this peak, sometimes visible by only one shot.
Also on some Airguns it can be helped in order to lower the velocity from it being out of box HOT.
Like the Weihrauch HW100T 177 cal
more on the peck.
~ GKU
The trick to getting as many shots a regulated gun can give is to set the regulator pressure to be “off-the-reg” right at the sweet spot of the power curve that comes with the remaining air pressure in the bottle. You see, some regulated guns sharply shoot to a higher velocity when they go off-the-reg if their regulator, hammer spring tension, and valve spring are improperly set. These components need to be adjusted to work together.
GKU, I totally get what you said. You hit the nail on the head! Nice Cricket too! 🙂
I have a Cricket Compact 177 cal, the shot count at 11.4 fpe is about 150 shots !
I pick up some hammer springs from Amazon in lengths of 1.75″, 2″ and 2.25″ long, for cheap !
I used the 2″ long one in my 177 Cricket Compact and got the results below.
My reg set to 120 bar valve spring retainer set to 1 turn after contact.
With JSB 8.44g.
With the Imppu HST at 0 turn it doing 650 fps (7.92 foot-pounds)
At 2 turns it’s doing 780 fps (11.4 foot-pounds)
At 5 turns it’s doing 950 fps (16.92 foot-pounds)
With JSB 10.34g.
With the Imppu HST at 0 turns it’s doing 605 fps (8.41 foot-pounds)
At 2 turns it doing 725 fps (12.07 foot-pounds)
At 5 turns it’s doing 890 fps (18.19 foot-pounds)
At 7 turn it’s doing 930 fps (19.86 foot-pounds)
It’s pretty cool I think that I got all this variability with just one spring, from about 8-20 fpe !!!
I think if I removed a coil I could get it down to 6 fpe ?
Being a Pester I’ve been using my Cricket 22 for the farms and my Compact 177 for the shopping malls.
I don’t need much fpe in the malls where it can do damages after pass through.
So, a versatile way to have a tool that can be fitted for the trade. 😀
~ GKU
Hey Mike,
I set up my Cricket to its current state for backyard shooting. At the moment, I don’t need much more power than 12-13 FPE. I shoot alot, and I can easily put away two to three full tins a day just enjoying the time hitting matchsticks, aspirin, twigs…you know, really small-sized objects with pinpoint accuracy in my backyard. Shooting that much, obviously, I don’t like driving to Sport Chalet to top off my 4500 tank, even if it’s just 5.3 miles away. 😆 .
If I were to shoot from the end of the side of my house to the end of the fence, the max distance is 27 yards. Even at that distance, my Cricket in its current state will put pellet on top of pellet. 12 FPE is still overpowered for the kind of shooting I do even if it’s to dispatch the occasional feathered fiend that happens to hang out in the “no-landing zone” of my property. 😀
Holy crap,
That’s a lot of shots per fill, What range are you shooting at?
You could feel a great white tank once to 4800 psi and when you got through shooting the 15 year life span of the tank would be up. :rofl:
Just kidding, I live in Texas so I got to have the higher FPS, :smilen:
Mike
STARTING PRESSURE: 210 BAR
PELLETS: JSB .22 CALIBER (16 GR.)
Note: pellets were unsorted and unweighed. They were shot directly from the tin.
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603 – Stopped chrono measurements after this shot (unable to get BAR measurement)
Here is where I chrono’d the gun again.
PRESSURE: 70 BAR TO 60 BAR
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Hey Shooter3,
The best trick to reduce the air consumption is to reduce the speed, but.
The most common places where air efficiency suffers are poorly adjusted HST setting and or shooting below regulator cut off point.
Now to set the HST:
The regulator is the most consistent when at max speed which was set in the above, max speed being that when turning the HST CW there will be a point at which no matter how much you turn CW it will not go up in velocity.
Back out HST CCW and chrono 3 shots.
Turn HST CW 1 full turn.
Shoot and chrono 3 shots.
If speed increased turn 1/4 turn till spend no longer increases, then back out 1/2 turn ccw.
The air consumption/efficacy will suffer if you set (push) the HST anywhere above this point !!
Anywhere lower from that setting of course will use less air.
At this stage if your targeted speed that you wanted is not where you wanted it to be, too low.
I would check your valve spring retainer setting first to see where it’s set to.
Depending on what you find you’ll might not be able to adjust it much, ranges from ½-2 turns after contact.
It easier if you find it being at the 1-2 turn range, just dialing it down will increase your speed and give you a bit more hammer spring to play with also.
But if you find it already at ½ turn after contact you will need to increase your reg pressure a bit.
About an additional 5-10 bar maybe, from your 120 bar presently.
Remember in all tweaks/changes that you do you will need to redo the above (in blue) HST adjustment/setting again !
My Cricket 22 standard is set up exactly like Jan/Octavius, my best friend on the other side of the world (exactly 12 hours time difference).
With JSB 18 g @920-950 fps the air consumption will be greater then what I’m/we’re getting at 880 fps, about 1.5-1.7 bars/shot or so.
Cool efficiency calculator for ya my friend(s).
http://www.calc.sikes.us/1/index.php
~ GKU
Here’s a 90-shot string of my Cricket .22 caliber rifle which has been powered down to shoot JSB 16-grain pellets at 13 FPE (I can get up to 180 shots from a starting pressure of 210 to an ending pressure of 60 BAR with a standard deviation of 2 FPS).
STARTING PRESSURE: 210 BAR
PELLETS: JSB .22 CALIBER (16 GR.)
Note: pellets were unsorted and unweighed. They were shot directly from the tin.
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603 – Stopped chrono measurements after this shot (unable to get BAR measurement)
Here is where I chrono’d the gun again.
PRESSURE: 70 BAR TO 60 BAR
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All at full tilt, meaning maximum fpe at that will yield the most accuracy that can be given.
For the Crickets I’ve shot the 9 mm seem to be the hardest to control/shoot well.
The 25 cal is second the standard has been the most forgiven for me, the compacts is just between the standard and a 25 cal.
IMO also:
Mainly is necessary test accuracy on 50 yards not 20 or 25 yards. On this distance we cannot see really how accuracy or inaccuracy with some pellets spiraling or finding suitable speed for pellets.
“a quote from Jan”
I can cut cards all day long with my Compact 177 cal @ 19.86 fpe at 30 yards as well as 7.92 fpe at that distance the accuracy is the same. :winkn:
There is a velocity with the 10.34g that gives me the most accuracy at a longer distance then 30 yards.
You could guess what the speed is, but the best way to test it is to shoot beyond this 30 x 30 yard box.
It’s 890 fps 18.19 fpe by the way, I wouldn’t know that if I wouldn’t have think/shoot outside of that box.
~ GKU