pressure 22air vs 22LR
Hi, can anyone tell me how is it possible that a .22 airgun (modified condor for example) can shoot almost at same velocity (1100 fps and more) as 22LR when using same 40grain bullets. The pressure which airgun operates is 2000-2900 psi vs pressue in 22lr chamber is arund 22000 psi. My guess would be that when bullet travels down the barrel airgun gives that 2000psi all the way to the end vs 22lr gives this 22000 psi only at the beginning, am i on the right track?
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****** looking forward to data so keep at it!
If you can push a .45 to 1800 fps with air, there is no reason that I can think of that a much lighter .22 slug cant go at least that fast.
****** who has a 45 slug of unknown weight going 1800fps with air?
****** that I would want to see!!!!
With the response I’ve seen here today, I’m not about to post any of the numbers I’m getting with a simple hot-rodded Condor valve, out of a relative short 18″ .22 Bbl.
****** this is a common dodge of those that cannot produce facts
****** cut to the chase and share what you KNOW to be true
I have some air bullets ordered. We’ll see if theory is as strong as fact. After all. The earth is flat! 😯 Right???
All I can tell you is that having spent most of my life around NASA in Huntsville Ala., When someone who knows ever thing, and claims never to himself ask advice, but gives it out regularly tells me that something is impossible, I have to take it with a at least 40 grains of salt!
****** oh that would be whom exactly???? :):):)
****** I did not ask advice from Spooky but instead was hoping he
*******would disclose his methods to unheard of performance
For what it’s worth, a .22 Long Rifle is considered a pip-squeak round here. I have a Weatherby .257 loaded with solid copper slugs by Barns bullets, (My power mix) that will break 4250 fps and I’ve taken Mature Buck Deer with it at over 800 yards. Witnessed by John the Moose Moran. All US Army dead weight lifting champion 1988-89.
It shot a .010 three shot group at the Fort Hood Sportsman range in 1990. Witnessed by and signed off by Maj. Louis Chow. 1 Cav. Div. US Army. This was from a regular sporting rifle. Not a bench rest gun. the Projectile contained NO LEAD> Many said that it was simply impossible. HeHe!!! Yeah, right!!!
****** most impressive, well done.
The rounds were carefully worked up, and the bbl, hand lapped to a full mirror polish by me. Nothing else. 😀
Mike
****** = my responses
so now the bar has been raised to 1800fps on air! ?
WOW if you are doing that then you are the top airgun god of the internet
my hat is off my old bald head to you!!!
oh, right no data, no supporting evidences…..
dog-gone I was hoping you were the real deal 🙂 teehee
Thanks Al, Keep us posted. And don’t let one or two discourage you! I’m pulling for your success!
If you can push a .45 to 1800 fps with air, there is no reason that I can think of that a much lighter .22 slug cant go at least that fast.
With the response I’ve seen here today, I’m not about to post any of the numbers I’m getting with a simple hot-rodded Condor valve, out of a relative short 18″ .22 Bbl.
I have some air bullets ordered. We’ll see if theory is as strong as fact. After all. The earth is flat! 😯 Right???
All I can tell you is that having spent most of my life around NASA in Huntsville Ala., When someone who knows ever thing, and claims never to himself ask advice, but gives it out regularly tells me that something is impossible, I have to take it with a at least 40 grains of salt!
For what it’s worth, a .22 Long Rifle is considered a pip-squeak round here. I have a Weatherby .257 loaded with solid copper slugs by Barns bullets, (My power mix) that will break 4250 fps and I’ve taken Mature Buck Deer with it at over 800 yards. Witnessed by John the Moose Moran. All US Army dead weight lifting champion 1988-89.
It shot a .010 three shot group at the Fort Hood Sportsman range in 1990. Witnessed by and signed off by Maj. Louis Chow. 1 Cav. Div. US Army. This was from a regular sporting rifle. Not a bench rest gun. the Projectile contained NO LEAD> Many said that it was simply impossible. HeHe!!! Yeah, right!!!
The rounds were carefully worked up, and the bbl, hand lapped to a full mirror polish by me. Nothing else. 😀
Mike
Do not be surprised when your Helium shots are around 1250fps
As Teflon says expect double power so a good strong .177 21 grain might go 900fps on air for 37fpe and then on He will give 74fpe which means you are going to get around 1250fps.
Good luck and report all findings here!
Walter…
That may well be true, but the bullet is fired into a vacuum, which is the whole point as they are testing for space dust strikes on NASA vehicles in space, which can easily puncture the side of their crafts.
As for your Helium testing, expect a doubling of power compared to air.
They achieved it beacause they use Helium, for wich the expansion rate(or the speed of sound within) is 3 times of what air has and they use gunpowder to compress it in the cylinder. The result was 7000mps or 23000fps …. would be a good long range hunting rifle 😀
I’m gonna do some testings in couple of weeks with helium, i’ll be using 21 grain .177 bullets with modified blodnob valve, i already have a 40L helium tank ready in the garage, just waiting for the 0.8L carbon fiber tank and the .177 swaging setup to arrive.
Alari
I think chamber pressure and airtank pressure are not reconcilable (apples and cabbages)…
The initial pressure of the powder charge may be 10,000psi but the loss to blow by and friction of the slug in the barrel will significantly lower the operating pressure that pushes the slug out of the barrel…
I’d bet in a powder burning rifle you lose 20-30 percent of the chamber pressure to friction, blow by and other stuff to get the actual round moving, this would leave you with about 7500psi to keep the slug moving down the barrel.
The higher weight of the powder round will take a significant amount of energy to accelerate, while the required amount for a pellet would be considerably less… Also I think because the tank is fully pressurized it isn’t like using one charge per round, which would lower the velocity of the pellet.
The numbers I get from my Talon are about 50psi per shot off the tank pressure, so really the 3000psi tank is providing more power than 3000psi because it is still charged after use.
I’ll look at my ballistics book when I get home…
😯
Have to check my other pc , had all the pics saved at one time so hopefully………
Errrr! No !
He never posted drawings ,he was very touchy about the law…..like we all are over here ….lol 😀
The only drawings I ever saw were of his valve concepts. Even then they werent to spec or complete as the actual specs/drawings were sold with the gun. He stated somewhere that he used to give out plans for his stuff freely until some wanker got him into some legal trouble over it.
Be great to see those pics again 🙂 !!!!
Do you recall any power numbers by Spooky that were in teh order of 125fpe from .22cal PCP?
Cheers,
BTW he never posted drawings did he?
I would love to have all those “Spooky” pics back.
I remember reading that thread about Spooky’s gun. As soon as shadoh mentioned spooky I knew who he was talking about.
That was some gun.
Think ive got the pics but not the diagram somewhere ,…..hehe 😕
Tef, no not at all. I think that discussion started re: the Gamo 1600fps buzz that happened back then. Then Spooky showed his airgun with ‘similar’ velocity. Now the rest I’m shaky on but IIRC the high velocity he acieved was with fleschettes…. darts of unknown weight and possibly near frictionless trip down teh bore.
After that thread he disappears never to discuss his stuff again as it kinda goes Area 52 information.
So repeatable??? not likely…..
Cheers,
Walter, are you saying that Spooky was not being honest over his stated numbers and was embellishing them?
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Damn! Really don’t read and comprehend before you post do you! I never said that I was getting 1800. I did say that I have air bullets on order, and would like to do a little testing. I am not interested in high velocity in my gun. Nor was the person asking the original question. Please go to Airgunadvice.net and search for big game with a air gun. Or go to Youtube and look up buffalo hunting with an air gun. Do a little research before dismissing what you’re not familiar with. There are some real heavy hitters once there, you will find many links to what people are testing. There is no excuse for putting people down for asking questions, or seeking answers. Much less for putting down people trying to help. I would appreciate you not making this thread personal.
To address another poster here, no not all of NASA’s test are conducted in a vacum. It wouldn’t matter if they were. Again we are confusing internal ballistics with external ballistics. The projectile is traveling in a tube. Even if not in a vacum, there would be only 14.7 bar in the bbl. hardly a problem for a project being pushed by thousands of lb’s of pressure. But for sake of argument, let’s say it was present. Still it would hardly matter for the short distance to get a FPS reading. Gravity is the main culprit in bringing our bullets to bay at long range. Since these test were being conducted on Mother Earth, they were hardly without gravity.
What all this has to do with the original posters question I have no idea! But in allowing myself to be sucked into this argument, all I can say is that I enjoy getting sucked in as much as the next guy. Nothing like a good Blow-Job! 😛
Mike