Question for those shooting the 25 cast
I’m using 25 cal jsb’s and love how they group, but I’m tired of the fliers. Those of you who are casting and/or using cast heavies are you still getting these damn fliers? I like the jsb’s but a crazy swirling flier two inches from the group center is getting old! I’ve casted for over 40yrs probably..and guess I could for this rifle..but buying pellets just simple.
JD
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I’d say “semi” WC, but it does kick ass!
MOneyshot,
I tried that, pissing on the bullets, and althoughit did attract women form red necked bars in cowboy country, it scared the elk away.
JD, my sizer die was shipped yesterday, I have some #2 alloy coming next week, wait for a while until you order that mold. I am hoping sizing and the harder alloy will work as well for me as it did for Marvin.
But if I was to order a mold for that kind of money, looking back, I would have had LBT make me up a swc mold, with two very small driving bands.
But for non casters, wait, hold on, alto, stop, get a hold of yourselves, Jerry sells a 6 ring slug already to shoot for non casters, although he denies it, it is a solid wadcutter,kinda what coppers used to use before the advent of sucessful HP’s and kicks ass on several continents. 😆
Regards,
Roachcreek
paper patch? oh, thats what PP meant… 😆 😆 😆
Moneyshot,
Years ago I did paper patch, I started with old pieces of typing paper on manuscripts I had written and tried all sorts of paper and sizes. I finally found Buffalo Arms in Sandpoint Idaho, he had templates for different calibers and the correct paper for PP.
In the end I was NOT that dedicated. To damn much work and besides #1 I got the cast bullet BP lube thing worked out and #2 you can only propel BP bullets so fast, and I got to where I was solely BP.
JD,
Some here have cut off their chokes, Riff Raff did it and it worked for him and I think Walt in Hawaii may have, but don’t quote me. Also Riff Raffs worked, he advises against it.
I may have found the source of my flyers.
My rear trigger assembly screw that goes into the round tube nut, was striped out. I knew I had a wobble of some sort, but when I really inspected it it was only going in a few turns and those threads were stripped. As a result it would snap in and out of place.
The gun shoots tiny bug hole groups for three or four shots and then throws one or two off into another group. Hopefully that was why.
Roachcreek
RC,
I never could afford a Sharps but several years ago I purchased a Petersoli 45/70 RB with a 34″ barrel. I only used cast lubed bullets with Pyrodex and never got around to using BP. I also used a blow tube and at 100yds I just couldn’t believe how great it would shoot using peep sights. I could never get consisent groups though. At times it would group under two inches then another day with everything the same I couldn’t keep them under four inches. I’ve got new RCBS molds for some of the heavy PP bullets but never used them or PP for this rifle.
I also bought a Marlin cowboy in 45/70, shot it once and said the hell with that…kicked like a mule. I was thinking about you shooting that #1 because it’s a light gun also…I just can’t take that anymore. My Win 1886 in one of the newer guns and has enough weight that it’s not that bad. In smokeless load I use now I use Puff-Lon filler and OP wad.
RC, you PP your guns? 😯 😯 thats a dedicated shooter 😆
My first 4570 a Ruger # 1 would group 5 shots into 1/2 to 3/4 inch at 50 yards, but only at 900 FPS with 500 grain bullets. ANything higher semed to strip the rifling.
I had to PP them to get decent accuracy with higher velocity.
I have shot several 10 shot groups with my old engraved sharps borschardt with a 30 inch Krieger barrel and a MVA 6 power scope in recoiling mounts that were cloverleaf for the first three shots, but the powder fouling would take the other 7 out to 3 inches, and this was at 200 yards.
10 shots at 3 inches with BP cartridges was always my goal at 200 yards to determine a good load.
I was using a card wad, compressed 93 grains of swiss #2 after a 24 inch drop tube and a tapered Hoch cast 550 grain bullet lubed with SPG,seated with two lube grooves showing if I remember correctly, Fed LR primer in a Starline 45/100 case. Shot standing from sticks with a but rest and using a blow tube between shots of course.
45 bores are extremely accurate.
Regards,
Roachcreek
Moneyshot,
It will give me nickel size too and also the damn 2 inch groups as well. No kidding though…it will stick them. I shot this same bullet but with a reduced load in my Win 1896 with a tang-peep at 200 yds using 4 pieces of typing paper tape together as a target and it grouped…well, I can’t tell you that, you won’t believe it! 😀
I just can’t shut up! I was looking at those hollow point bullets someone posted a link to (mrhollow point or something) just recently and like the width of the driving band and the band at the base. I have to agree with Veral of LBT about meplat dia in reference to killing game. I now use only hard cast bullets with .250 meplat in my 45/70 ( like I need it in a 45/70 to kill). Using a .446 dia cast bullet paper patched to .460 lubed and run through a Corbin sizing die sized to .458. Weight is 398 grs paper and all. Yeah, I said hard cast (with the lube grooves). I use this in a Encore in 45/70 bull barrel loaded pretty hot (smokeless load). Groups 1.5″ all day at 100 yds and drops a deer in his tracks.
Got a little side-tracked..anyway I like the LBT molds I have and wonder if Veral would make a 25 cal mold with bands like these hollow points except solid with a small meplat..say 0.100″. I just don’t like hollow points. Have them dropping bullets at say .251 with pure lead that would give about .2515-.0251 with a harder alloy and then size to whatever. I don’t know what weight but he would probably put two diff weights in the same block. I’m just using a 12″ barrel with a Condor tank and valve and getting about 900 fps (avg 889 for 15 shots) with the Kings which I’m satisfied with. For me about 35-40 grs would probably do. What do you think?
i gotta see a vid of that, i never seen a 45/70 group that well ❗ 😯
RC,
Well maybe not in the bullet business but love to make em and shoot em!
Question..would a fellow always need this LW choke or would a barrel without it be better with the cast bullets? As you know with cast in powder burners it’s nice to have a somewhat smaller bore at the muzzle end maybe a taper (0.001-0.002) over the complete lenght of the barrel, but whats the choke deal? I would like to just saw off the choke and re-crown.
Also, if a bullet had a small driving band say, 0.062″ and one at the base about the same size with the area between the bands at bore size so it (the center between the bands) would ride the lands do you think this lack of friction in the bore would help using a barrel without the choke area? It’s hard for me to think air when my brain wants to think powder! With my way of thinking we’re just pushing a bullet through barrel with air pressure without having pressure enough to upset the base to really fill the groove causing bullet diameter to be even more critical.
Your imput is appreciated as I’m seriously considering ordering a mold in the near future.
JD
JD,
You certainly are in the bullet business.
At one time, when I first retired in 1981, 300 grain 375 Nosler Partions were not available. I had Dave Corbin give me a price on a hydro press and dies to manufacture the partion. Too much money, and Nosler picked them up again, so I would have lost money. I have had the 22 and 24 rifire jacket/reloading press making dies, but got rid of them, but for over 20 years they and Dzave Corbin did very well by me.
Make sure you slug your barrel before you order a mold from LBT the LW barrels are all over the map, but yes he will make the mold I understand.
And there is the 58 grain SWC 6 cavity Ranchdog Lee mold it should work with the larger barrels like mine, but ones like Marvins which are on the small side may be a bit far to size down as it is a 257.
A 58 grain SWC going 1000 FPS would be a earth shaker in the Condor.
I played with the PP bullets in my first 4570 a Ruger #1. At the time I was doing what your doing with PP hard cast bullets, and shot a couple elk with that gun.
Regards,
Roachcreek
Typo..would drop harder alloy at 0.2515-0.252″
RC,
I just can’t shut up! I was looking at those hollow point bullets someone posted a link to (mrhollow point or something) just recently and like the width of the driving band and the band at the base. I have to agree with Veral of LBT about meplat dia in reference to killing game. I now use only hard cast bullets with .250 meplat in my 45/70 ( like I need it in a 45/70 to kill). Using a .446 dia cast bullet paper patched to .460 lubed and run through a Corbin sizing die sized to .458. Weight is 398 grs paper and all. Yeah, I said hard cast (with the lube grooves). I use this in a Encore in 45/70 bull barrel loaded pretty hot (smokeless load). Groups 1.5″ all day at 100 yds and drops a deer in his tracks.
Got a little side-tracked..anyway I like the LBT molds I have and wonder if Veral would make a 25 cal mold with bands like these hollow points except solid with a small meplat..say 0.100″. I just don’t like hollow points. Have them dropping bullets at say .251 with pure lead that would give about .2515-.0251 with a harder alloy and then size to whatever. I don’t know what weight but he would probably put two diff weights in the same block. I’m just using a 12″ barrel with a Condor tank and valve and getting about 900 fps (avg 889 for 15 shots) with the Kings which I’m satisfied with. For me about 35-40 grs would probably do. What do you think?
RC,
I forgot to mention that CH dies are made to about any size you prefer. Also in defense of Lee dies having a short rough sizing area..they are used for just cast bullets not jacketed. The CH would size both.
JD
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Jerry,
I think when all is said and done and the smoke clears…your bullet “semi” WC will win in long run. The old drum shaped wad-cutter has proven itself over the years at slow velocites as being very accurate and doesn’t suffer balance problems of the different ogive shapes. When I first saw a picture of your bullets my first thought was I bet they are accurate! I guess some like myself just can’t help but tinker with re-inventing that wheel.
JD