Q:

"RISE" of the TalonDor 257 (pic heavy)

I know…..the title is all dramatic huh? LOL! As the title states, I have brought the old talon/condor back to life and even gave it a well deserved caliber swap.

Back Story (short version): I purchased a Air Force Talon in 22 back in 2005. As most Talons go, it came with a 18″ .22 cal LW barrel. While being a fun gun, i found it difficult to reach “WAY OUT THERE”. Because i hunt in the desert (so cal), I needed a gun with more oomph! So I bought a 24″ LW 22 cal barrel along with a Condor tank. Along with the longer barrel and Condor tank, i performed some tuning that i learned here on the TAG. The gun was pushing 22 cal Eun Jins at over 1075 FPS in 22. To make a long story even shorter, I then purchased a 25 cal barrel and breech and top hat combo for even more power. The gun was a thumper to say the least. But after all these mods and a LOT of hunting, I was never truly satisfied with the all out accuracy of the gun. After some years of ownership of the TalonDor 25 and the introduction of the Rapid25, I retired the TalonDor in about 2008 or so. Here is a old pic of the TalonDor:

Present day: After much pondering and taking a look at “WHATS” out there, my taste have turned to long range shooting with airguns. I mean, I’ve always done long range shooting with airguns since i started in them but, I’ve always wanted something that was not only powerful but, something that was accurate and had looks. I also wanted something that shoots BULLETS and not pellets. I mean, if your gonna go long range, why not use the right tools. And while pellets can travel far, they simply do NOT outperform bullets. The Daystate Wolverine had come to mind but, it’s a odd caliber with odd weighted bullets for the power plant. So i got to seriously thinking about what caliber I would want. I already had a 454 and a 457 and a 308. It wasn’t until RJ Porter post that it hit me………hmmmmmmm……….257! Why not? I had already done the big and medium calibers so why not a small caliber. And the idea was born. But what gun could i do this in. My Dragon Slayer was already in 454 and it’s very successful in that caliber. The Corsair can’t be taken apart (yet) so it was out. Both of these guns though make 250 FPE and are perfect candidates as a base. But I did not want to change or mess with those platforms as they both perform. And it wasn’t until one day, i was in the garage cleaning up that the idea hit me………….THE TALONDOR! WHY NOT!?

DYOTAT100: In comes Doug Noble or DYOTAT100 as he is known on this forum. I had been following his work and post and had found out he lives right down the freeway from me. I PM’d him about being interested in performing my “ideas” on my TalonDor. He was more than game and more than up to the task. GAME ON!!!!!!!!!!!

My Ideas:
The concept for this gun was simple. I wanted a long range rig. Something that could shoot accurately to OVER 75 yards! The same gun could easily reach out to 200 yards also. And do it accurately. And using the Air Force platform would be a stretch (no pun intended). The caliber would be 257 with a barrel that had a fast twist to keep the bullet stabilized while reaching out. I also wanted a 1 piece bushing for rigidity while in the frame. Doug also came up with the idea of a custom “tight” fitting frame end cap. For even more rigidity, I contacted Adam Vigil here on the TAG about his WOKGUARD15. I also ordered a DPMS AR15 pistol grip with beaver tail tang that I had to trim down to help support the bottle of the TalonDor. I got rid of the old custom pistol grip. I also decided to relocate the forearm closer to the Wokguard15 so everything in the vicinity would be fully supported and create LESS frame flex. I also had Doug install a second bolt into the forearm for more rigidity. The gun also already has a Tri-Rail. A new hammer weight, hammer spring would also be added to the gun. The hammer weight is of the Bore Riding design and made of brass.

Here are some pics of all the custom parts and the gun completely assembled:
OEM TRIGGER GUARD

WOKGUARD15


OLD PISTOL GRIP and TRIGGER GUARD

DPMS ADJUSTABLE PISTOL GRIP

CUSTOM KNURLED ALUMINUM/DELRIN COCKING KNOB

AIRFORCE BIPOD PAINTED WITH TRUCK BED LINER

OLD FOREARM PAINTED WITH TRUCK BED LINER




CUSTOM 95 GRAM BRASS HAMMER WEIGHT

CUSTOM PARTS ASSEMBLED ON 257 BARREL

RELOCATED BUSHING SET SCREWS-6 TOTAL-3 ON TOP/BOTTOM RIB

GUN ASSEMBLED WITHOUT SCOPE AND BIPOD

BULLETS OF CHOICE: LYMAN 65 GR FLAT POINT BULLET MOLD IN 257

OVERVIEW AND PERFORMANCE OF GUN ON ITS MAIDEN OUTING:
Needless to say, I am extremely happy with Doug’s work. His work is as nice in person as it is on the forums. I learned a lot about the Air Force line of products through Doug. Having a machinist or gunsmith run through these guns is pretty much NECESSARY. But on to the positives. I made a video of the gun while out on its maiden shooting session so I won’t go into too much verbal detail. But I will say that the gun is a performer and it lives up to my expectations. My initial groups printed in the 5/8″ CTC range at 60 yards. I was also able to print a 1.050″ CTC group at 110 lasered yards while shooting a small resettable popper target which is in the video. The gun also performs best at power setting 5-8 and 3100 psi and makes 132 FPE at that setting. The gun also has a bit of a kick and is pretty loud. But that’s ok, I don’t mind loud especially when the gun performs.


HOLD SENSITIVE:
Yes, the gun is very hold sensitive. Like most Air Force guns, she required a light hold. A snug hold makes the gun groups horribly. The gun also prefers PURE LEAD bullets over hard cast or bullets that are cast just a lil bit harder than pure lead (???????)

THE GUN FULLY ASSEMBLED

FUTURE MODS
All silver will become black (lol). The Morgan Adjustable butt pad will soon be replaced with a WOKBUTT

THE VIDEO:

General Chat

All Replies

Viewing 15 replies - 16 through 30 (of 41 total)

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Thanks OG!
🙂

Joe, you do have to call him and you have to send him a check or money order. Mike doesn’t do credit cards or Pay Pall.

I sent him a USPS money order for 2 barrels on a Monday and had them that Saturday!

He hammer forges all of his barrels and they are 6′ long blanks when they come out of the forge so, you can order any length that you want; as long as it is under 6′ that is!

IIRC, he charges $4.25 per inch. Mike also has non listed “oddball” twist rates for special apps that he doesn’t list, you have to ask.

Great guy to do business with!

Makes sense Ced. The lighter bullets are a must for this platform. This is why I want to build one in the AF platform in the first place. I don’t have the air for the larger lead and higher fill pressures. I don’t have a compressor and I couldn’t stand how that JH I had sucked my 4500 tank inside out. 3000 sp works great for me.

How do you order one of those barrels. I assume you have to call on the phone? Thanks.

I have a XR100 in 223 that has a 1:12 twist rate, I can shoot Sierra GameKing 1395’s at 65 grains with amazing accuracy. Any heavier and things start to go south. If I shoot anything over 80grains they will keyhole. 😯

Granted i’m pushing them at 3000fps+… 😉 😉 😉

Judging from your groups you made the right call on the rates!!! 😯 😈

80G,

No sir, it was all about the stabilization of the chosen bullet. I choose to use only the 65 gr Lyman mold which drops bullets in the 72.5-74 gr weight range with soft lead. A couple of grains lighter with harder cast lead. The 85 gr RCBS will drop at about 92-94 grs which is a little heavy for the Condor valve the way i have it. BUT, the idea was to get more speed from the lighter bullet PLUS, i like the shape of the LYMAN over the RCBS. But that’s just me…lol! So i think the 1-10 twist would have been too much for the little bullet. Again……I THINK! Plus, i also choose the twist rate because of the numerous post by Jack and RJ about the haley 257 accuracy while using the 1-14 twist.

The O.D. of my barrel was OVER 1/2″ also and is actually 9/16″. The thicker the barrel the better. The more wall you have after the bore diameter, the stiffer the barrel and less whipping you have. It also leaves a machinist some room to work with.

Ced,

I found this price list from TJ enterprises and I was wondering why you didn’t go for the 1 in 10″ twist instead? Was it because of the larger OD?

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OG,

No problem man. I enjoyed your talk. No hijaking at all.

At this point, i’ve only taken it out twice and it’s improved since the first time as far as accuracy goes. I’m getting really, really comfortable with the gun and i’ve already cast up some 100% pure lead bullets that came out EXCELLENT and weigh in at 74 grs on the Money.

Before the next outing, i’m gonna clean the barrel then shoot some 100 yard groups and 150 yard groups. Should have another neat video with the TD257.

OG, hear are a couple more points to consider when building your gun. Remember the condor normally fills to about 3000 psi UNLIKE the Haleys are DAQ’s or CORSAIRS. So those guns can make more power cause of the higher fill pressures. Hence the reason for my barrel being at least 26″. So when tuning the condor for max power, always remember the fill pressure cause that has a TON to do with the shot string and the power level and the shot count. I’m sure i could easily tell doug to make me a 308 valve that might push the bullets well over the 1000+ FPS mark but the shot count will suffer. Of course i could just get a 62 ci tank for 40 bucks

Hey Ced, that gun is starting to look very impressive! You might be on to something with the one piece barrel spacer!

An Air Force Condor 22 was my first PCP. Great power but, it was like a manic depressive woman that I was once married to when I was young and more stupid than I am now. IF that is possible! 😆

They could both be great to live with but: I knew that both of them would start to act up, I just didn’t know when!

How about some 100 yard 5 shot groups?

I have 2; TJ’s Enterprises hammer forged, 24″ long barrels. One is .224″ and the other is .257″.

Used Condors are cheap. I have been thinking about making a bull pup out of one for a long time. The front bottle mount could also be made into a frame stiffener.

I have talked to Doug a few times, I listened mostly! Sorry Doug! 😆

He is the man for high powered Condors!

I like the fact that the Air Force platform can get 5-6 or more consistent shots compared to the Halies 3.

My other option is the $2800 Daystate Wolverine 25 cal when it comes out. The .303 gets 10-12 good shots, per fill, at 100 fpe using a 50 grain pellet. 6-8 shots with a cast 57 grain .257 bullet at 900 fps would be golden! I would still have to spend big bucks to make a bull pup out of it.

I like bull pups.

Ced, I am sorry if I hijacked your topic! Airguns are my passion.

Tofaz, nice gun!! Knock down on the Jacks I am sure.

Doug really knows his stuff!!! Everything he has ever done or made for me has been well beyond Excellent!!!! Not to mention he is a Great Guy to deal with :thumb:

That is just freakin awesome… nice job, Ced!

Guys,

Lots of good info. Hopefully more folks will chime in and give input.

The 1 piece bushing was just a IDEA of mine that really came outta know where. I just got back into the Airforce and wanted the gun to be better and the ideas started sprouting.

Airforce would have something on their hands if they simply took more notice of “TOLERANCES”. A gun of any type is about Tolerances.

As Adam recently said, we gotta hold these guns LIGHTLY and the groups will improve. Its KEY! They are the Springers of the PCP world….lol!

TAGDAGGER. Your right about the movement. I’ve already seen it while hanging out with Doug. You can take ANY 2 Airforce guns and you can not get the parts to fit one another. This is not bashing, this is wake up time and its constructive. The Air Force guns are Unique in design and function and are worthy platforms.

One piece aluminum barrel bushing…the next hottest upgrade for the AF line 😎

Tof,

Looks like you have good shooter there 😀 If it were not for that one pc barrel bushing those groups would look a lot different.
In most of the guns Ive set up I lose the powerwheel and replace it with a one pc bushing about 4” long. Im convinced a lot of the inconsistant poi these guns are bad for is because of poor barrel support in the area of the pw.

Take the PW, hammer and spring out of any stock AF gun and mount the barrel with the two forward bushings and give the barrel a little push thru the PW window and at the breech end. You will be surprised how much movement you see.
That “week to week” test you mentioned. Thats what Im talking about 😎

Tag

These groups were about 7 feet high so I had to stand on my tiptoes to measure them.
150 yards.

My Dyotat TalonSSS

Doug is the only game in town for performance AirForce rifles.

Regards,

Roachcreek

Viewing 15 replies - 16 through 30 (of 41 total)

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