R3 .30 caliber problem and fix
The Problem:
I first noticed after about 2K rounds my velocity dropped off. That can be common, sometimes the HST needs to be readjusted. So I screwed in the HST 1/4 turn and I was back at the 890 fps I was before. I was fine for about another 150 rounds until the real problem started. The gun started behaving erratic when trying to find zero on my target. I put the Matador on the chrony and I found a strange phenomenon. When the gun was full (220 BAR) no manner where the HST was set the most I could get out of the gun was 750 fps. As the pressure in the reservoir dropped the speed conversely would rise until below 150 bar the speed was at 912. I concluded that the valve must be stuck and the reason for the change in speed is that the valve gets more resistance from the air in the reservoir the higher the pressure. The valve must be allowed to move freely in the regulator. The belleville washers are clean, the O rings are perfect and the regulator is assembled correctly. What I found was the valve stem was slightly bent. I know this problem developed over time because the gun was super consistent when I was new. . The valve stem was not too long as it was in Ed’s factory specs. I straightened the valve stem reassembled the gun and I still had the same problem.
The fix:
what I found was the valve stem was slightly oversized and a little rough. Because the stem is steel and the valve stem housing is brass the valve was getting caught/sticking and in my opinion the valve couldn’t open enough. When the gun fell below the 150 pressure setting the valve didn’t have to work as hard to move forward when the hammer hit the stem. I polished the valve stem with 220/20/400/600/800/1200/2000 grit paper on a lathe until I could see my reflection in the valve stem. The valve moved like it was on ball bearings inside the housing. The regulator gave me 24 shots with the average at 880 and the ES at 2.6 fps.
I welcome any criticism you may have about my fix. It’s is possible that I just got lucky. Hell, it’s better to be lucky than good anyway.
All Replies
I have more experience with the gun than at the time I made the video. When the gun was new Ed and or his employee set the gun at 880. I had had conversations with Ed and he had told me that was the perfect speed for the 44.75 grain JSB. Ed knows more about PCP guns than I’ll ever know so why would I question him.
If you ‘re-read the original post I made in this thread you’ll see that as the cylinder pressure dropped the speed of the pellet would raise. So this problem with my valve gave me a very unique learning experience.
Once again if you ‘re-read you’ll see my speed started in the 750s and as the pressure in the air cylinder lowered the pellet speed would rise. Well, obviously as a result I got to see the JSB performance at almost every 10 fps from 750-920 FPS.
Also as I looked for a fix I investigated the quality of the JSB pellet but you knew that all ready shooter because I shared that finding with you.
I case you don’t know I am not the kind of airgunner that “looks” for problems. When something works I don’t question it nor to I experiment with it just to see the gun or projectiles limits. This R3 came to me shooting excellent I had no reason to experiment with the gun so I never learned about the JSB inability to travel over 900 FPS.
Hoot. It’s impossible to offend me. I really like you I just love bantering with you.
How do you know it is related to the pellet? It might be related to the barrel specification as well. You mentioned nothing about spiraling issue in your video. I do not understand that.
Hoot. It’s impossible to offend me. I really like you I just love bantering with you.
Yes must sort the pellets no way around it—seen weight from 43.8g to 46.2g about 30 fps ES between the 2 weight. ES just shooting 45g is under 10fps around 50 shots on the Impact.
Hoot I have found extreme variance in the quality of the JSB .30. Pellet sorting is critical. The weight variance of the JSB .30 is not what it should be. Also the pellet absolutely cannot tolerate speed from 900 and above. It is the strangest phenomenon I have ever seen in a pellet gun. It’s like a magic barrier. Push the pellet past 899 (or about) the pellet spirals. From 860-885 the .30 JSB is perfect. The closer you get to 900 the more it starts to spiral.
Hoot. It’s impossible to offend me. I really like you I just love bantering with you.
:hoot:
Keyser, I believe every word you say. Your results are your results and no one can deny that. No insult has ever been intended in my responses to your posts. You speak from experience, and your experience has been good. The question is why is that not the same for all .30 Edgun owners, based on what they have told me?
All .30 owners should have the same experience…That puzzles me!
I don’t own anything but an opinion on this gun…or for that matter, the offset moderator!
So, my thoughts are my thoughts. Take them for what they are worth. The only thing I can attest to is the details other readers have related to me. I can’t speak from my experience, but I can give word to their experiences. For whatever that is worth…like I am apt to say….”your mileage may vary!”
Hoot:
Hoot I dedicated an entire 9 minutes of video illustrating the gun’s accuracy. I know and shoot with two other owners of the MK2 R3 .30 and they also have very accurate guns. I too have seen that video and all I can comment on is the gun in hand.
As far as the fix unfortunately I believe it will come in the R4. Ed told me he increased the stem from 2 MM to 3 MM obviously the larger stem won’t fit into my regulator so it will be up to John or Ernest for the aftermarket fix.
As far as the offset it works. I ordered a second one for my .22
:hoot:
My take on this…
The .30 Edgun has new model flaws. That’s too bad, but it is a new product, and it will take time to resolve the situation.
The existing flaws are not easily user correctable…unless some extensive machining and mechanical skills/tools are possessed by the owner.
Sending a replacement valve stem is a quick fix, but possibly not the solution to the real problem. Sending an assembled re-designed valve might be a more permanent answer.
That’s up to Ed.
Now the second question, has anyone achieved superior accuracy with this gun? I saw one vide where the pellet flight was actually a corkscrew trajectory, with shotgun pattern accuracy!
The solution lies in Ed’s hands. It is the middle of the busiest holiday season in the Western world. Give the man time to come up with a solution…meanwhile, just don’t buy the gun…you will be frustrated until it’s been modified to correct the problems!
He’s stood behind his products before, no reason to believe he won’t do the same this time. Give him some time to sort out the solution.
As for the off-set moderators…we expected too much from a simple volume increase in an LDC. It will help, but perhaps not perform the miracle you were expecting. That doesn’t mean it can ‘to be improved upon by the owners! Again, give us some time to work on this. There are user improvements possible with this design.
Now, relax and let time resolve some of these issues. There’s no instant gratification in this hobby. Solutions take time, but they generally tend to be permanent fixes when developed!
Hoot:
The current steel that was used is way too soft. I can easily bend the rod with my fingers. I don’t think going with the hardest steel is the correct answer either. I think you would want the steel to be softer than the hammer so that the hammer does not get damaged over time.
How about the hammer? Will the hardest rod make a hole in the hammer?
I have 2 VS with aluminum body and come with its own spring, pm me your addy I’ll send you one to test!!
Gave about 5 VS for testing but never had a response of breakage ,
Have tested on mine over 1K with no problem. It’s has the hardest rod you can buy.
Sure. He needs to prepare some new models.
Anyhow, I think he should know there is a problem to not make the same mistake again in his new model. Easy.
I’m not waiting on Ed to fix this. He is working on 4 brand new models for 2016. I have a brand new valve, I’m sending it to John and he has some ideas. Be patient I have faith that our TAG resident machinist will fix it for us. I will not leave you guys in the dark. The second the valve stem is fixed I’ll let you know.
Excellent idea to include the video. It appears the end of the valve stem did not receive tempering. It may have lost some of it due to trimming it to the correct length. Or possibly the complete stem did not receive any. A new replacement valve installed could prove a lot. Or one could straighten the valve onto axes again easy enough. I’d chuck it in a lathe and indicate it back to center. And re temper the end of the valve also. And give that a whirl.
RomeoAlfa, please send that video to Ed. He must adjust the production. It is important.
As of the problem, I believe that the plastic piece was replaced with the brass one but the stem was made from the same steel as before. However, the hummer is more heavy now. I think the stem should have been adjusted as well. Harder steel should do the trick.
In the plastic version the stem will break before bending so this works like safety.
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OK, so you learned abut that instability just by accident. 880FPS may be good for standard. But some users who have long may want to go around 280ms.