R3M, and things that effect magazine indexing?
Suddenly for some reason the magazines don’t index properly. I’d noticed that at times the gun wold not completely cock. at first i thought I was limp-wrisiting it, but that wasn’t quite it. Now along with the cocking issue, sometimes it’s a fit to get the magazine out. Of course there’s a damaged pellet by this time, but I do know I inspect the pellet skirts because I shove the pellets into the magazine so the ring catches their waists; a good time to inspect before shoving them in (with another pellet).
I did try to add a bit more pull weight to the trigger in case I had it too lightly set, but now it’s much stiff and the poor indexing continues.
what to do?
darryl
PS using JSB and AA pellets 16 and 18 grains)
All Replies
I had a problem with my .25 same as you are having now. I cleaned and adjusted the gun and it seemed to be working okay but it skipped. I invested in some plastic R3M mags and I never had that problem again. I talked to Ernest about the skipping and he believes a big problem is the aluminum magazines drag. Some guys have polished the magazine.
This guy fixed his with lube
Maybe Hemn can translate this for us
which kit to get to cover the Eddy? http://www.amazon.com/MIP-Metric-Hex-Wrench-MIP9502/dp/B00D7DK0NY
Darrylovich Somnyabichen.
Greg, a good point about the rubber washer on the indexing lever. I actually saw that and noted t was distorting as I snugged the hex screw (several times). I have an assortment of high durometer o-rings, and maybe one that will replace this softer one. I like that idea od maybe a thin steel washer too. Have to check my goodie boxor do the hardware, but the idea is a great suggestion to try.
Yes the video was made after a good Ballistol soak, but it’s not installed in the gun like that; it would be oozing the stuff otherwise. Moly has been applied. 😎
I’ll try cocking the gun upside-down and asses from there. I noted that there are wear marks in the breech where the metal mags ride. Snug fit? Need a polish, as suggested? I’d told Tony some time before that I had a magazine that seemed not to index properly. I think there may be some variance in them because only one spins freely when stored below the scope rail.
thanks again, great stuff
Darryl (Darrell’s other brother Darryl! 😆 )
Somethings I would double check on Darrell is the O-ring for the indexing lever.
Don’t know if it’s just me but it looks like yours is stretched open (oozing out) a bit to much over its hex screw.
I’d try and replace it with a new one if you haven’t already, maybe adding a thin washer that’s wider in-between the O-ring and hex head or using a harder A75 ?
The correct size index lever O-ring is 2.57 x 1.78 mm.
If this plate sags down from gravity pulling down on it’s weight when the receiver is in its upright working position.
When it’s in motion with the added resistance of the mag when cocking this plate maybe dropping, it won’t index the mags enough.
It’s like placing the mag indexing bypass lever halfway in the downwards position.
A quick test might be, is to cock cycle the gun upside-down.
Clean out the area with denatured alcohol, it l@@ks over lubed !
Also lightly moly lube the brass bushing and it’s top head bolt that makes the actual contact with the hammer surface can help with the cocking effort.
Before rounding out the hole on hard to remove hex bolts I use an auto punch the inside of the head to help loosen, couple of whacks down usually does the trick.
~ Hope that helps yah ~ Greg
I have the aluminum magazines (4). I will polish one to see how it works. Do I need a heavier lub than moly? Anhydrous Marine grease? Also thanks Keyser for the tip on the hex wrenches. I was not aware. As I said two screws are extremely tight compared to the other four. Faulty assembly? Who knows? Drill, baby drill.
Like I told Kevin you guys really should invest in some Thorpe MIP hex drivers. I learned about them from an RC guy and my god they will not strip hex heads.
I had a problem with my .25 same as you are having now. I cleaned and adjusted the gun and it seemed to be working okay but it skipped. I invested in some plastic R3M mags and I never had that problem again. I talked to Ernest about the skipping and he believes a big problem is the aluminum magazines drag. Some guys have polished the magazine.
This guy fixed his with lube
Maybe Hemn can translate this for us
GKU, I checked that ball bearing, and it’s good. Where I’m at now is I’ve vigorously worked the breech action after a moly lube. I watched the travel of the indexing rod, and everything seemed OK except for that roughness as the cocking pin on the bolt hits that angle on the rod. It’s a friction load increase at that point. I put a magazine in and watched it being indexed, making sure the travel indexing rod’s travel was complete. So far so good, making good contact. I then loaded two magazines, put them in the breech and began working the action. The pellets were expelled with each forward shove of the bolt. I then reinstalled the breech after adding a it of moly to the hammer where the cocking pin. I tried shooting a full magazine as smoothly as I could work it, and had a bit more success, but I felt like I was straining to pull the bolt back that last bit until the gun cocked. So I figured no harm in backing off the HST a bit. That seemed to help with the cocking. Maybe the spring was binding a little? Anyway I went on to shoot 80 shots. The overall result is better, but it still misses an index here and there. I can tell when I don’t feel the pellets being inserted, it’s a bit rougher than when there is no pellet at all, so I cock the gun again and continue shooting. I see several empty slots as the magazine indexes, but also see where there’s a pellet that got missed. I cock the gun, rotate the magazine so that when I close the bolt the pellet is loaded. I feel it being pushed in. I’m trying to make peace with it, and it’s better than it was when I started this thread. Popular opinion indicated the action will get smoother over time. So I ordered more pellets today. Air Arms 16 and 18 grain pellets. The beat goes on.
thank you all for your input. I’ll keep you posted.
Darryl
PS at one point I was trying to remove the plate that keeps the cocking pin in place. Amazing. of the 6 screws, four came right out though they were tight. Two others were so much tighter, well… I stripped the hex heads on those two so now I have to drill them out. BTW, a new breech costs $325.00, iirc. But Tony Rudenko (who only keeps te breeches in stock) will look into some getting some replacement parts.I hope Ed can supply some parts. Things happen that don’t require, I’m sure, a whole breech assembly. Should I check Ebay?
Did you check the small indexing ball bearing just inside of the breech ?
Make sure it still has some spring to it by pressing it in with your finger nail.
How is the indexing indents on the mags ?
It could be the worn brass bushing, but only 3000 shots seems weird ?
~ Greg
A link to my early video, after cleaning the breech with Ballistol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyjKFeRQnWo&feature=youtu.be
I found a Russian Edgun R3M video and it’s a 5-part series on the disassembling the R3M. There’s the link to part 2 (I want to remove the bolt): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwMlryumtc0
I’ve made the video of my breech, but since then I’ve been on a road of discovery with the indexing, getting my hands on it and my brain around it. With the breech off and in my hand, I’ve seen where completely cocking the breech without a magazine is smooth enough. Of interest was seeing the index rod not always completely engage the teeth of the magazine I’d slipped in to observe what was going on. Upon closer inspection, the indexing rod seemed to sit high enough that it barely contacted the teeth of the magazine, and usually slipped off before completing the indexing. It was as if it had a slight upward bend. I was certain I saw a slight bend because I was checking that the indexing rod was flush in the breech, and it was, mostly. So I put the rod in a vise, set it so the angle of the bend was flat to the vice jaws (wooden caps). A few taps and I thought I must have moved it and decided to check.
Rather be lucky than good! The indexing rod was making fuller contact with the magazine teeth. To test it, I loaded the magazine, then cocked the breech, and all the pellets were ejected, one after the other. So the breech works fine outside the gun.
With the friction of cocking the gun, it feels like the gun cocks just before I run out of pull. It’s so “right there” as to feel sensitive to cocking force, and to too narrowly needed to be pulled, yanked, cocked just right. Not much room for margin at all. Come up with just a bit too little and the magazine is not completely indexed, and I have to yank the bolt back a second time in order to complete the cocking cycle just that little bit.
Phew! Easier to work on than a Hummingbird, but forward-side cocking is in Ed’s sights one day. Also I saw a video that made mention of the different materials in the breech\cocking assembly and their different wear characteristics. My brass bushing is showing wear rings and I don’t have 3000 shots through it since January this year (new).
I’ve written to the Florida dealer to ask the price of a new breech. He also volunteered that he would look into replacement parts, but he doesn’t currently carry the parts, just the whole assembly.
So the video I made is not longer relevant.
darryl
the index button (almost a safety thingy) is secure. the little bolt that holds the indexing rod was loose, and on second look, the indexing rod is not damaged. I’ve tightened up the indexing rod retainer bolt. will test shortly. out of time for the moment.
darryl
btw, can anyone point me to the picture-posting instructions? When I’ve tried to post images in the past, jpgs, I always got a “something is full right now, try back later” message. WHat? was I banned from posting images here too? :suprisedn: 
also, took the breech out, gave it a good Ballistol rinse, let it drain, wiped then another bath. What I saw and felt was a slight drag on the brass bushing along the long straight section of that indexing rod. That was before a good cleaning. Afterwards, it still feels a bit draggy along there, but it felt better. Also, I notice in the bend of the indexing rod, it appears a bit crinkled, and I wonder if it’s bent just a little bit (from my exertions in trying to free a stock magazine once or twice), and I see that this crinkle is not evident in your pictures, Keyser. Maybe order a new bushing and a new rod?
darryl
Nice post Keyser!
Keyser, thank you for the detailed show~n~tell assist. I can hardly wait to get into this gun and check the action. It’s holiday food-fest here, so I may be a day or so before I can devote more time to it (wife wants to hit those store sales too). I’ll try to remember to video the action and post it to my You Tube channel for your review.
much appreciated,
darryl
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thanks MRV, I’ll look into it.