R3M, and things that effect magazine indexing?
Suddenly for some reason the magazines don’t index properly. I’d noticed that at times the gun wold not completely cock. at first i thought I was limp-wrisiting it, but that wasn’t quite it. Now along with the cocking issue, sometimes it’s a fit to get the magazine out. Of course there’s a damaged pellet by this time, but I do know I inspect the pellet skirts because I shove the pellets into the magazine so the ring catches their waists; a good time to inspect before shoving them in (with another pellet).
I did try to add a bit more pull weight to the trigger in case I had it too lightly set, but now it’s much stiff and the poor indexing continues.
what to do?
darryl
PS using JSB and AA pellets 16 and 18 grains)
All Replies
Apparently TalonAirGun.com has Vulcans in stock ready to ship (with additional 2 free magazines) 
OK, sorry to be late getting back to this. To update,the indexing issues I was having were somewhat moderated by a good Ballistol treatment. Also, pellets are not the issue. Somehow the magazines are not being consistently indexed, lots of hoping to feel the pellets being inserted; some dry-fires. This is the sequence of events
*pull bolt back and get a positive sear lock; shove bolt forward (feel pellet being inserted), shoot (working fine, making shot-pellet noise).
*pull bolt back and get a positive sear lock; shove the bolt forward, but do not feel the pellet being inserted (magazine didn’t index). STOP. re-cock
So I can re-cock and feel the pellet being inserted. But it’s a near=consistent issue to deal with as it happens with every magazine (4)
Then there’s the cocking, and pellet insertion, but the gun didn’t really cock (pull the trigger and it feels like it’s not cocked, but there’s a pellet in the breech now). So I re-cock the gun, removing the magazine, and take the shot. thwack.
I’ve adjusted the trigger, and it’s a bit heavier now, but I also really increased the pull weight and that didn’t help with cock-fails (you’re welcome 😉 ).
In summation, the gun cocks inconsistently. Not sure how to approach this, and suggestions are welcome, of course.
darryl
hi Keyser,
I’ll have to get into this one and check it out, give it a clean and a lube. It’s one thing I like about this R3M; it’s relatively easy to work on. Ed has that excellent video “everything you wanted to know”, plus Ernest and a bunch of others have pointed the way for doing this and that to the gun. I have four metallic magazines, and so far other than being hard to yank out, they seem to perform OK. No glaring wear marks to indicate any engagement issues. Anyway, I need to study up a bit then dive into it.
thanks again,
Darryl
It doesn’t matter how we want to call it but the weak point of the R3M project is definitively the cycling/indexing mechanism.
We range from MKI being a disaster and not working at all to MKIV or MKV probably working in certain conditions and with certain measures, hopefully the next version (R4M or whatever it will be called) will solve this issue definitively.
I’m still of the opinion that the R3 (single shot) version would still have a market share in all calibers (IMHO).
:2cents:
Darryl, the HST has nothing to do with the indexing. The Hammer just bolts onto the bottom of the air tube. It has no relationship to the cog that indexes the magazine. After about 5-700 rounds my .25 is hard to index. I pull the action clean it well, clean the breach and action with Balistol and she will work butter smooth. The plastic mags work way better than the aluminum mags BTW.
possible reasons for failures: didn’t cock gun during the HST reset process? something broken in the gun? pellets too short? (yeah, turns out I might have been using JSB RS 13.43-grain pellets. these were tested as too short to work well in the magazine early on). Anyway I have a mislabeled tin of pellets. my fault, I’m sure. :darth-vader: I ran several mags of AA 18 grain pellets without a problem. I’ll shoot some Jumbo Heavy pellets from an unopened tin to see how the gun performs with them. I did change the HST setting, and the trigger pull, but I don’t see how those two things can be related to magazine indexing issues.
thanks for all the input, guys.
You might want to check the small indexing ball bearing just inside of the breech.
Make sure it still has some spring to it by pressing it in with your finger nail.
Any metal fillings of any kind found near the breech ?
If so, is it aluminum and or lead ?
~ Greg
darryl, in your post you state “inspect before shoving the pellet in (with another pellet)”. I wonder is this may be your trouble spot? Just use your thumb to level all the skirts with the surface of the magazine. At the very least check the bore side of your loaded mag to see if your technique is advancing the pellet in to far.
Ed’s magazines are unlike any other, they are designed to size the pellet skirt for uniformity. Keyser, has given you excellent advice and Ed has a video on loading pellets.
Regards
LarryW
Some things that cause it are:
1. Not seating the pellets all the way into the magazine
2. Bad O ring on the magazine
3. When you push the magazine into the action you don’t hand index it to “time” the cylinder
4. The gun needs to be cleaned
5. Something is broken.
Pull the action and clean the gun with balistol you should notice a much smoother cocking gun.
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Hey D I am going to attempt to help you fix the indexing problem.
First let me explain how the magazine system works…
first off this arm is what makes the magazine index, the bar in the right upper corner of the action is the magazine disconnect
this is the indexing position
this is the loaded position
this cocking bar spins, it has a washer and brass sleeve that must spin freely, it cocks the hammer and actuates the magazine indexing bar
As you can see the HST has nothing to do with the system.
The action must be clean and free to move easily
if the magazine disconnect is loose it will lift the magazine action bar and you will not get a consistent throw on the magazine
This is the part of the magazine action bar that makes contact with the magazine
this is the cog that engages with the magazine action bar
The detent ball must come into firm contact with the action. If there is any wiggle front to back the magazine will not cycle properly.
in this photo we see the magazine action bar. It must be in total contact with the cocking bar and it must be totally flush to the action it’s self. The way the magazine disconnect works is it actually pushes the magazine actuator bar away from the action thus disconnecting the arm from the magazine cog.
Test the magazine action bar with the action off the breech. look to see it move. If you watch the action move the magazine it rotates in two steps, it engages then rotates the magazine.
If you could video the action off the breech then I could see if the magazine actuator is moving properly.