Silencer conviction overturned
Remember the guy convicted of having an airgun silencer capable of being used as a firearm silencer. It was overturned…
http://www.leagle.com/unsecure/page.htm?shortname=infco20100618081
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The intrastate vs. interstate issue might be compelling for a court but also irrelevent to most of us who need to buy stuff we can’t build. I expect the only people following this will happen to live in a state other than the guy they want to buy the mod from…Murphy’s Law thing.
I was not aware of the Parker Hale case but that’s still a bit different than the feds going after a guy with a can on his airgun.
The available information just does not lead me to worry about putting a silencer on an airgun. Even if I owned a PB, someone would have to catch me with the goods and then prove intent to put the mod on the PB? Maybe that would be easier if my PB happened to have a threaded muzzle with the same thread size but I’m already working into a stretch scenario here. Obviously, if my airgun had a threaded tip with a standard thread that PBs use for this (I don’t even know if there is a standard silencer thread…) I might be in trouble because the point could be argued that I was using a PB silencer on an airgun…
to answer your question
nope, not that I have seen other than the prosecutions back in the 1970s over the import of Parker Hale AG moderators…they did indict and convict several importers of the units and purely over the units based on what third parties had done with them.
I am going to toss you guys a potential defensive bone that no one has brought up and that is what happens when the questionable item has never been in interstate commerace?
see at the Federal level that is another major issue…technically the finished item must cross State lines to be a Federal violation
Does depend on the District as DOJ has always maintained that even if the raw materials have been in Interstate commerace the end product is Fed soverignty
You mentioned the 9th Circuit…actually they are one of the better ones
read up on US vs Stewart and his appeal which he won
basically Bob, the owner of Maddi Griffen was raided by ATF for selling his .50BMG rifle kits in interstate commerace. During the raid the Fedz came across a variety of SMgs based around STEN SMg bolts. Bob fought in District on 2nd ammendment grounds, then in appeals before the 9th Circuit he took my advice and fought on the basis that the seized MGs had never been outside the State of AZ
9th Circuit Court of Appeals agreed and reversed the verdict…DOJ said we will take it to SCOTUS but before Bobs case made it before the Supremes the High Court ruled on US vs Rosenthal, a San Fran Pot Clinic bust where they addressed the interstate issue relative to weed when its grown intrastate then vacated Bobs reversal
Still there are a number of Firearms cases that were tossed due to a non interstate nexus. Example, a felon in possession case was reversed in New York due to the pistol having been manufactured in New York State.
Been a few in CT and MA that were reversed over Colt and S&W products
Rosenthal, a dope case may have wreaked the intrastate defense
it certainly ruined Stewarts reversal
Hey Fuckstick! (I just typed that so you could really say you’ve been called a bad name) 😆
I meant it when I said I did not mean to insult but I thought you were being a bit paranoid. The fact is that while not bound and free to reach another conclusion, the various districts do reference each others rulings. Reaching contradictory findings is not taken lightly…except by the 9th district I would wager.
Can someone please come back to my question about who has been charged? Is there an example of the BATF or anyone else going after a guy ONLY because he had a silencer on an airgun? I’m not talking about the guy caught doing 130 down I-95 with a portable meth lab in the trunk or any hypothetical circumstance.
Has anyone ever been prosecuted for a silencer on an airgun absent any other charge or criminal history?
I am getting a bit of a charge over all the angst and name calling here
so far I have been hit with:
Paranoid
Know it all
a hater
full of myself
self centered
self rightous
and a few other things
if I was a sensitive sort of guy I might actually be real hurt
NOT 😆 😆 😆
Actually for the TAG those do not even rank as name calling. 😀 😀
Heck I have been called worse names from these guys when they want my help 😛
True enough Gimmick…
I am getting a bit of a charge over all the angst and name calling here
so far I have been hit with:
Paranoid
Know it all
a hater
full of myself
self centered
self rightous
and a few other things
if I was a sensitive sort of guy I might actually be real hurt
NOT 😆 😆 😆
Crazy part about all this drama is that I am simply stating the best possible way around getting hemmed up on the intent issue and arguing that intent as well as constructive possession are complex matters that are not High School civics class black and white.
anyways I am not attempting to change the minds that are already set in stone with this latest purse fight, rather hopefully get some constructive information out there to those who are want to dot all their I’s and cross every T
still a remarkable thread 😉
Yes
🙄
Gimmick wrote.
Hell yes you should. That’s my plan and it has worked rather well for the last 40 years. I still got 27 more to go! 😆
This is getting a little sticky again… We have opinions flying around but in the end the letter of the law + an LEO + a jury is what determines your guilt.
If you cannot explain your legal possession of items satisfactorily to a neighbor, friend, or family member then you’re probably heading for the slammer at some point in your life. Just because it hasn’t happened to you or someone else doesn’t mean its more or less likely TO happen.
My Uncle Bob drank like a fish, smoked like a chimney, and ate fast food almost every day and died at the ripe old age of 85. Should I do it too?
by far not the most knowlegable but the blunt example is void for one simple reason
the weed is already ILLEGAL
there is no wiggle room around that in most jurisdictions and really zero at the federal level.
It’s not at all being a hater, I just disagree with the example being a valid analogy given the nexus is with an already illegal substance.
as far as the mobile meth lab, sorry dude…thats all it takes for a rock solid conviction in most States and particularly at the Federal level
you have most of the percursors in a box together that establishes intent in that case…if they are scattered throughout the home you have a defense.
truthfully you don’t even need most of the percursors if you have a significant amount of the main one such as a barrel of P2P, that will likely get you close to life in the Federal system without a lab or any final product as you will be charged with an estimate of total weight based on the amount of the persursor under your control…ditto on ephedrine, safferol, even concentrated Acetic Acid
to get even finer on this a number of folks are doing Fed time over possession of raw Castor beans having been charged with constructive possession of the Bio Toxin Ricin in violation of the Klintong era Anti Terrorism Act…read that law sometime, its scary shit as it regulates even chemical toxins and their percursors.
sorry dude thats just the way these things work and have seen numbers of folks indicted and sent up on CP nonsence
mind you most of them were going to be guilty sooner or later but a few were not
again its all about the apparent few here that wish to remain inside the rules
if the rest of you characters want to roll the dice and wing it thats fine by me…I am so far to the right I am past even the Liberatarian lable but folks deserve straight poop on what indeed can and has been done in the past
Not in anyway saying the JBTs are going to kick in the door and rape your dog over an AG moderator but stranger things have happened 😉
Yeah well those that know me in real time tend to think I am hard core into the Grey zone
facts are certain things are black and white but this really isn’t one of them
BBs Blunt example doesn’t work in this example
this is more like having Cold Pills, lithium batteries and a small igloo cooler in a carboard box in your trunk
you don’t have a solvent nor do you have liquid Nitrogen to conduct the reaction but 9 gives you 10 if Officer Obie finds those items in a box in your trunk you will be charged with a Meth Lab and they will estimate the amount of substance you might be able to produce and you WILL be charged with manufacture & possession of that weight
Gun investigations work the same exact way 😉
Stop being a hater RS. Here is another laymen example that doesn’t fit. You go to 7-11 and buy a 2 liter. Nothing wrong with a 2 litter right? Tape that shit to the barrel of a gun and you are getting charged with unlicensed silencer and maybe many other charges depending on the situation. Just like blunts which are cigars by “nature” once used to smoke weed it is now drug paraphernalia(intent). Just like you can have all 10 of those things you mention as long as your intent isn’t the making of a meth lab or meth and charges will be dropped(Hence the overturn of the silencer case). Not saying it would be easy to do per se but “intent” is the key word here. Like you intend to come off as the most knowledgeable person about all of this. But by “nature” you are not. I see what KM is saying. 😆
WOK: 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆
Yeah well those that know me in real time tend to think I am hard core into the Grey zone
facts are certain things are black and white but this really isn’t one of them
BBs Blunt example doesn’t work in this example
this is more like having Cold Pills, lithium batteries and a small igloo cooler in a carboard box in your trunk
you don’t have a solvent nor do you have liquid Nitrogen to conduct the reaction but 9 gives you 10 if Officer Obie finds those items in a box in your trunk you will be charged with a Meth Lab and they will estimate the amount of substance you might be able to produce and you WILL be charged with manufacture & possession of that weight
Gun investigations work the same exact way 😉
Sorry Jim,
I could not resist…LOL
😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😛 😛 😛 😛 😛 😛 😛 😛 😛 😛 😛 😛 😛 😛 😛 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆
It’s like when I buy a pack of blunts. The blunt themselves are legally owned and purchased. But once I fill it with weed it becomes paraphernalia and legally prosecutable lol :11
Yes, becoming is correct, I jumped the gun… 😆 🙄
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here is my opinion WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT IT !!!!!LOL if ppl would just shut there mouth and and not say what they r getting/or building most ppl wont have a clue what its for or what it does and if they do tell then they get what they deserve
LIKE I SAID IT IS MY OPINION