The most basic question of all…Which GUN ?? Condor or SS
I have to decide which gun to get…I need a little help here.
I like the Condor for its power.
I have to have a quiet gun so I can shoot in the basement, the wife works nights, so the Talon SS fits the bill, at 20ft/lb its power is ok, but
I want it all!
I know there are aftermarket moderators/shrouds for these guns, even a section here on making your own.
I’m sure many of you Condor owners have these add-ons already.
Do they work well enough that you can shoot in the house or backyard without disturbing the neighbors? Or god forbid waking up the wife? (very dangerous)
So I wan’t the Condor if I can quiet it down, if not the SS would be ok.
As long as the accuracy between the two guns is about the same?
Either way I look forward to a more accurate gun than my Gamo Whisper. I like my little gamo..have had a lot of fun with it…killed a lota squirrels. Now I’m hooked and want more accuracy.
It is my plan to just get the plain jane model from PA, and add to it as the funds permit.
So I need help, which way to go?
All Replies
again it is all about “intent”
most folks that have a .22 rim fire have a 2 liter pop bottle and a roll of tape in their home
thats no issue
now if there are a couple of empty pop bottles and a roll of tape sitting on the floor of the closet next to a Ruger 1022 there may be a degree of constructive intent
its the same situation on what constitutes a Meth lab
many folks have most of the basics in their homes
its when you bring those basics together that you have a crime
Molotov cocktails are classified as Distructive Devices under the NFA
who really doesn’t have some sort of flamable liquid, a glass container and a scrap of cloth under their control.
my own view and one that was echoed when the 1st Circuit Court of Appeals overturned the Sam Yang moderator conviction is that IF one has an AG with a detachable LDC in nexus with Firearms the act is at the very least indictable and likely convictable if the powers that be wish to actually push the matter to its legal conclusion
its an even iffyier proposition if the LDC is one that uses a threaded interface to the barrel itself.
in the end its all about one’s intent
a potato rammed on the end of a .22 rim fire is every bit as regulated as the finest GemTech can by the good Doctor Dater
I do see the standard Condor type shrouds as being a real stretch to make an issue about
Now I have heard it said that even if duct tape will hold it on, in short you could be screwed. Any truth to that?
You are fine unless they want to nail you for something. Then they can say or do whatever they want.
Being attached with a set screw or threads does not mean squat to the ATF either. That is hopeful thinking at best. The ATF does not give a shit if you have a moderator on your airgun unless they are given a reason to care.
the 1/2×20 clearly is as a number of handguns come factory threaded 1/2×20. Off the top of my head the TEK22 and the SIG 22s
I wont even go into DAQs 1/2×20 muzzle adapters for a wide variety of firearms
now if the can is using a proprietary internal thread I feel one is pretty safe such as is the situation with the Korean guns
Better yet is a external thread as there is no easy way to adapt this shroud to a firearm period.
that said the reason the 1st Circuit overturned the Sam Yang moderator conviction has not so much due to the device as it was that the DOJ was absolutely unable to show the defendant ever had even access to a firearm ergo the intent of the item was clear as Barvarian Crystal.
Had he in any way been linked to a firearm the guilty verdict likely would have stood.
As I don’t mess with firearms anymore I feel extremely safe but that doesn’t mean I won’t add additional features to make a case as difficult as humanly possible.
most of my reason for doing this was having the shroud concentric to the bore rather then the usual set screw nonsence
its an elegant solution to a variety of issues
at least from my personal perspective 😉
Off the bat, I am not arguing for or against Shrouds. I have one one my Condor.
Now I have heard it said that even if duct tape will hold it on, in short you could be screwed. Any truth to that?
The ATFE FTB requirement for legality is that they are not readily adaptable to FIREARMS Wok
the 1/2×20 clearly is as a number of handguns come factory threaded 1/2×20. Off the top of my head the TEK22 and the SIG 22s
I wont even go into DAQs 1/2×20 muzzle adapters for a wide variety of firearms
now if the can is using a proprietary internal thread I feel one is pretty safe such as is the situation with the Korean guns
Better yet is a external thread as there is no easy way to adapt this shroud to a firearm period.
that said the reason the 1st Circuit overturned the Sam Yang moderator conviction has not so much due to the device as it was that the DOJ was absolutely unable to show the defendant ever had even access to a firearm ergo the intent of the item was clear as Barvarian Crystal.
Had he in any way been linked to a firearm the guilty verdict likely would have stood.
As I don’t mess with firearms anymore I feel extremely safe but that doesn’t mean I won’t add additional features to make a case as difficult as humanly possible.
most of my reason for doing this was having the shroud concentric to the bore rather then the usual set screw nonsence
its an elegant solution to a variety of issues
at least from my personal perspective 😉
Thats because we all know screw on silencers totally eliminates that “Legal Grey” area
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😯 😆 😆 😆
An SS on CO2 is pretty darn quiet with stock gun. Basement shooting eliminates temperature problems and you get plenty of shots to boot. 11 yard / 10m and CO2 won’t let you down.
An HPA SS also has enough power to remove a tree rat at back yard distances. Condor owners can tell you how many shots to expect from a charge. My 177 SS gets 35 hunting shots from a 2700 psi fill.
SS on CO2 is neighbor friendly…. SS on HPA is champagne cork loud – not silent by any means.
😆
I shoot into my wife’s laundry room and I have blasted many holes in the drywall (block house)…the other day I accidentally put a .22 in a .25 and needless to say, I came one inch from blasting a hole in her very expensive washer and dryer 😳
Thats because we all know screw on silencers totally eliminates that “Legal Grey” area
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1/2 inch groups are possible at that range on air but not likely on co2.
Effective head shots can be done on crows @ 40-50 yds. I like to err on the side of no exaggeration.
Pyramyd had a buy the gun get a free co2 adapter offer but not sure if it’s still going.
Here is another option to keep the Broomstick Condor reasonable in length & report:
this is the set up for my .25 I am tinkering with…
20″ barrel with 4″s off the frame then internally threaded with a modified Talon Tunes shroud that has been fitted with a custom threaded bushing.
This keeps the length the same as a standard Condor, it’s quiet and also eliminates the legal grey area on shrouds while making for a much better execution of the platfotm then the old fashioned slip fit collars which make it difficult to keep the shroud concentric to the bore.
tinkered with it a bit last week, shooting very nice but still needs a bit more done before final media blasting, Cerakote and declaring it finished
yes have the Shoebox
it ROCKS!
Wow, super fast replys, Thanks guys!
This scares me: (The question is how far will you be shooting outside the basement? An SS in .22 will give enough power to kill squirrels and crows easily to 30 yds)
I can almost do this now with the Gamo…Im pretty good with this thing, and can keep a 2″ kill zone out to 100ft. Shot a few thousand pellets through it in order to learn how to shoot a springer. But I am hooked I want more accuracy, I wanna be able to do a head shot at 50/60 yards..right now I’m lucky if I can do a solid body shot at that range.
I think I’m sold on the Talon SS..The PA advertisement claims 1/2″ groups at 50 yards..this is what I want. Is this a reasonable expectation from the SS?
I’m gonna get the CO2 version as I have a few 20 ounce tanks from other guns. I also have 3 48ci paintball hp air tanks..with the regulators modded to put out 1400psi. I should be able to use these as well to get a little more power. Someday, I may get a real 3000psi tank if needed.
thanks guys..Sold on the Talon SS.
Another question….anyone have the Shoebox compressor? How do you like it?
one more thing you can also shoot condor on co2 in basement for even quiter shooting with lotsa shots
a good shroud will make it a condor basement friendly
i have 2 lil boys and a wife and used to shoot my condor in thedownstairs dining room while they were in bed upstairs she never knew i had a condor until i accidently missed my back stop trying to hit a fly near the edge and blasted a hole in the stove at 2 am lol that woke her up
Really both guns will be just as accurate in the basement. Both will have way more power than you need for indoor and both will need quieting for that.
The question is how far will you be shooting outside the basement?
An SS in .22 will give enough power to kill squirrels and crows easily to 30 yds. A condor will hit much harder farther but gets pretty long with 15 in of shroud on it. Depending on how close the neighbors are, smaller is better.
The other consideration is fill. If you’ll be using a pump, a condor will give more of a workout for your shooting pleasure due to the hi-flow valve.
For me the answer is an SS because I can’t shoot far enough to make use of a condor and the Big Black Gun factor.
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I do agree WOK, threads or set screw make little difference particularly when its a barrel mount
however the greater the degree of complexity in a non barrel mounting system the better off one actually is when arguing intent
frankly it makes little difference to me as I dont have anything that would make any of my shrouds regulated…ie firearms
messed with CII/CIII crap for years, discussed these things many a time with Firearms & Technology Branch over the years and that was always what I came away with from the conversations