Trouble dialing in .22
Gentlemen,
This is going to be long, so buckle up. I just want to give as much information as possible to help diagnose my gun’s problem.
When I first got my Vulcan Pup Gen4, it was shooting like a dream compared to my springer, but I thought it could be better.
Around the 2000 shot mark, things started to go wonky. I would be hitting bulls-eyes, and then for no apparent reason, it would start grouping low or really high or to the left or right. I would re-zero the scope, and everything would be fine for a bit. However, eventually it would start all over again.
I clean the barrel after every 500 pellets using Kleen Bore Formula 3 on cotton patches pulled through the gun from the muzzle end. The patches are pulled with a piece of weed-wacker string that has a piece of 50# test fishing line taped to the end (in a loop).
Things I have checked:
1. I removed the stock and side-plates at the back. All screws were checked in the area around the rear block and all moving parts were cleaned/oiled.
2. I checked for an air leak at the probe by using the tissue paper method.
3. Scope rings and picatinny rail bolts were checked.
4. Bolts holding the trigger assembly checked.
5. Side plate removed and barrel bolts (One side only) were checked and found to be tight.
6. Shroud removed and gun was shot, which actually made the POI worse.
7. LDC removed and inspected inside for evidence of pellet clipping.
8. Stock bolts checked for tightness.
9. Gun shook listening for rattling.
10. Breech o-ring gets lubed with silicone (from the dive shop I work at) every time the barrel is cleaned. Applied with a Q-tip.
11. Tried shooting AA Diabolo Field 5.51 16gr. They seem to shoot a little worse than the JSB 18.13gr that I am currently using.
12. Parallax error minimized by proper scope setup. Scope Werks side-wheel was calibrated in 1 meter increments by myself using a scope visual target (from 10m to 41m) (took me all freaking day to do). Scope is an Althlon Argos BTR 6-24×50.
13. Bubble level on scope checked before every shot. Scope, bubble, and barrel are inline and re-verified using a string and electric level.
14. 11 pellets were shot into the pool at work and retrieved. Pellets were inspected for irregular grooves, damage, etc. I *think* they look fine.
Here are some photos of the crown:
The first couple are after shooting around 400 pellets today.
And then after doing some cleaning. The only thing I did differently with this cleaning is that I ever-so-carefully ran a nylon brush up and down the barrel twice. I did not run the brush into the barrel far enough to reach the breach o-ring.
Today, my chronograph arrived, so I put the gun through the paces. I also wanted to know when the gun would fall off the regulator. I used the JSB’s mentioned above. Is the gun shooting too hot for the JSB’s?
Now that the chronograph has arrived, I can start my big pellet experiment. Using the JSB’s from above, I first Yrrah rolled them and divided them up into groups. Those groups were then subdivided by head size using a PelletGauge. Then, those groups were further divided by weight. I will be shooting groups of approximately 5 provided there are enough pellets in each group.
Could my issue simply be that the gun has a specific requirement for a pellet, which I have yet to discover? Or, am I just expecting too much? After all, the Vulcan isn’t a competition rifle? Or is it…?
Again, sorry this is so long-winded. I hope I’ve given enough information. I really want this to be a pellet-on-pellet gun.
Cheers!
All Replies
Are you asking about the Athlon, or what I will be replacing it with?
The Athlon was $370. The scope I will be replacing it with has yet to be determined.
Zoe , so what is the cost for your new scope ?
FROM : THE BIRDMAN
I tried that, but there was no love. Good thought though, and it was something that I learned from the good people around here.
Kris: I watched a video by Ernest about barrel removal (among other videos), and it’s something I will do if a replacement scope doesn’t cure the issue.
Today I went to a high-end gun shop and looked through Nightforce, Kahles, Swarovski, and Schmidt & Bender scopes. All I can say is #^&@)!!!!. Unbelievable….absolutely unbelievable. They put 4K video to shame. Word to the wise: “Never, ever, ever look through tier 1 level glass unless you already own something from this category”. It’s a visually life-changing event.
My scope should have arrived at the distributor today, and I expect to receive a BNIB unit shortly.
Anyway, I’ve caught the bug, and as stupid as it might be, I’ve got my eye set on a S&B PMII.
take the whole frame apart and put it all back together. So with low fill pressure, take the cylinder out, take the barrel out, basically loosen the whole frame up, scope rail all off. you can leave the back action and the top cover in one bit no need to take all the actions small screws out.
then try to put it all back together with EMPHASIS on trying not to strain anything in the process, no flex. try to minimize any gaps between the bits in process. fill the cylinder half full before torquing up the 4 barrel screws, no need to overtighten
You will have to reset the trigger link i guess and the barrel may move too deep in so can block the mag but give it a few tries you will get there. try not to round off screws. good luck.
you have to hit it hard, by looking at it it will never gets fixed.
POI changes can be caused by a barrel. If certain amount of lead accumulates within a bore then you can notice some shifting. The natural reaction is to use the scope turrets. However, you can clean your barrel thoroughly without turret touching. If POI is back to normal then it is your barrel.
Some reading:
Pocho: Thanks for chiming in. Oh how I wish I could look through one of the MTC Viper Pro’s. I just need to get my hands on one to see if it’s what I’m looking for. I really love the idea of the elevation turret a lot. Honesty, I’m a bit worried about the build quality, and I realize that this is somewhat of a subjective issue.
Hi Zoey i own the mtc viper 6-24 x 56 and the hawke sidewinder 8-32 x 56 and i really like the mtc a lot more and for what i have seen the viper pro is a really good option
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At this point, I’m not sure of anything. Maybe a barrel polishing would take care of the marks on the pellet? Or, as you point out, it could be the crown leaving the marks? But, the fact remains that I had sudden changes in POI, which would momentarily resolve with re-zeroing.
I went scope shopping today and did a side-by-side comparison of a Vortex Viper PST, Nightforce NSX and ATACR, Sig Sauer Tango4, Trijicon (don’t remember model), and Swarovski X5i.
Let me tell you all something. I highly suggest, if you have low to mid-level glass on your gun right now, to never ever look through the upper echelon stuff. Optically and build quality in the hand, the NF and Swarovski blew everything else away. Not even a close competition.
Here’s the issue for me:
I don’t mind forking out some stupid money for a scope (within sort of reason), but I need something that can parallax focus down to approximately 9-10 meters at full magnification. Manufacturers list the minimum parallax focus distance, but don’t indicate at what power that is. Again, I would like something around the 6-24×50.
I want this so I can use my gun for both indoor (23m) benchrest and hunting.
I put up a few 25m benchrest targets around the store and none of the scopes mentioned above could clearly focus at full magnification. Rather frustrating being that I’ve spent days surfing the net for information. I really would like to physically touch the scope before purchasing.
The Athlon should be back at the factory on Monday. Why oh why can’t the top echelon manufacturers have the features that the Athlon has?
The hunt continues…
Are you sure that the crown is fine? Please read:
http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=36376 (my posts especially)
The rifling marks on the pellet are also not very smooth. Maybe it is enough to clean the barrel every 50-100 shots and the things will remain where they should be.
What to do, what to do…
Well, here’s the list of potential candidates. Yes, I know they span a rather large price spectrum.
For the record, the Schmidt & Bender scopes really look like everything I might want in a scope, but the price is way out of my league.
In alphabetic order:
~Hawke Sidewinder or Airmax
~MTC Viper Pro
~Primary Arms 6-24×50 (Not available on the market yet)
~Sig Sauer Tango 4 (Unsure about this one though)
~Sightron SIII
~Swarovski (Might have the hook on a great deal)
That is correct
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That is correct
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Before buying the Athlon scope, I was looking at the MTC Viper Pro. Being a turret clicker myself, the scope looks intriguing. Anyone have an opinion about the scope?
I have the Viper Pro and it’s a great scope. That turret system works very well.
The one posted by eelect is a HD version. Its minimum focus is to 50 yards.
The one you are looking at focuses down to 35 yards. But like other scopes, you can make it to focus closer by reducing the magnification.
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I’ve ordered a new scope, which will be here on Wednesday. After I get it I will figure out what rings I need, and then it’s some more waiting. I’ve spent more time waiting for stuff than actually shooting :suprisedn:
The new scope is absolutely bad arse.