Virgin & length
🙄 New guy with lot’s of questions. Back ground been a power burner for years but new to PCP. In line to have Tony build me a full house 25 Condor and next a 22 Condor/Talon.
Wants/questions: 1. NO noise but may have that covered with my order 2. Accuracy of coarse but is a 100 yard sparrow killer asking too much? 3. Barrel length 24″s with a shroud is really too long for me, Tony’s 21″ is better butttt 21-18″ looks better to me. Will I lose out much going to the 18″ish barrel considering my 100 yard desires? 4. FX ST barrel really sounds like it may be a good option to play with, “shoots very very good” what does that really mean, 1/2″, 1/8″ 1/16″ at 50 yards?
Enough for my first post here. Lot’s of good information here. Good to be onboard but my wife thinks it’s just another place to take me away from my “honey does”…. Too many hobbies and not enough time..glad I’m retired… 😀
All Replies
Elsolo,
Cast 57 grain bullets at 260 yards into 4.5 inches out of a 17 inch barrel with air is not about caring about accuracy.
Care to duplicate that?
Or are you just all mouth.
RC
It’s easier to focus on equipment and most guys do.
Give an off the shelf sporter barrel .243 to a benchrest shooter and let him develop a load for it, he will shoot it more accurately than the nicest 6mmbr rifle in the hands of a lesser skilled shooter that hasn’t filled up notebooks with data and figured out exactly where his bullets will go at a given distance, temp, altitude, incline/decline, and wind.
What you post about your AF rifle tinkering, you seem primarily interested in max power. That is akin to working up load data for a rifle and looking only at velocity, then backtracking to try and regain some of the accuracy you lost in that pursuit.
Apples to apples, two rifles shooting similar projo at similar speeds, with one rifle having a small MOA advantage in mechanical accuracy means very little in the field compared to knowing (not guestimating) where that projo will be at a given distance and how much to dope the wind.
Sure, My thutty thutty will outshoot those 300 mags everytime out to 500 yards where it starts climbing.
😛
Sorry, all things being even, if you don’t have good equipment it doesn’t matter what your data base is, it will not get you on target, you need both.
And like Tof, I have never found the AF products to be either reliable or consistant. I have used my AF guns hard for over two years and it is a constant struggle to keep it sighted in and working, on the plus side, I learned an incredable amount about the workings of PCP guns, something I would have never learned if I had bought a FX Royale 400 from the start. But education does not come cheap either.
Once I tried a AA and a FX there was no turning back, another one gets here on wednesday.
And I have to say my AF’s shot as good as any out there, they just do not shoot on the level of a AA 400/500, FX or in Tofs case a Rapid as far as grouping and consistancy. But unless you have put a few lbs of lead down the bore of one of the European guns, your not going to know.
Believe me if they were trash I would be bitching about them. A good example was the AA S410 Carbine with the classic tube, being as I hunt these guns on what would be the verge of a commercial use, I have different criterias, and one of them is shot strings.
Shot strings did not used to be a porblem when I just shot them on the range or a squirrel hunt, once I started shooting starlings every day, rain or shine, it became a big issue real fast. The AA S410 just did not give me enough shots, two mags worth and it was time to refill. With these bottled guns from Daystate, FX and Theobin your up in the 60’s before needing a refill. The Talon ss and a Talon valved Condor can come closer than the AA did with nearly 35 to 40 shots, however to stay on the feathers for me, they never had that nut cutting accuracy.
But again, after I bought that first European gun from LovemyTalonSS, I refused to put up with the AF platform for anything but novelty play and experimentation, ie arrow shooters and the 25 LBT.
And for that they are wonderful, I have no qualms about drilling, cutting, valveing, bobbing barrels and simply using them up and I am not done yet. But they will never have the ease of accurate shooting and ergonomics of a European gun , no matter how much money you dump into them.
All air guns suffer from some consistantancy problems as a general rule. But also as a general rule the more cash you throw at them the better they get, American mass prduced air guns notwithstanding, but I think more money gets dumped into AF products than the rest of the American guns. Rapids can be amoney pit, all a Royale needs is good glass to take advantage of its inherently superior accuracy.
Powderburner, yep thats me crude rude and socially unacceptable oh yeah and some guys have the gall to call me opinionated, can you imagine that?. 😈
Hold that Condor close to your heart for it is indeed a rare bird buddy.
RC
Perhaps for you Elsolo, but I don’t buy into that statement.
I have been dealing with those factors most of my life as I have been a long range shooter since the age of 12, it started for me shooting into my old man’s plowed field and realized the 1 mile range statement on the 22 ammo box was bullshit. The cultimation was shooting daily on my 1100 yard range.
Within a week I was taking 22 cartirdges a part on the sly and reloading them with more powder until I blew the extractors out of my old springfield 22, that and a Lee loader for a 30-30 at a way too early age made it unlikely I would grow to adulthood, but I did and now you have to deal with it. 😛
Thinking you know the wind deflection and trajectory of your cartridge or projectile because you read it off a computer screen does ot cut it for me, I want to see and experience it in person, and once you do , then how consistant or erratic a rifle performs is very important, because what is the use of that knowledge if you have a rilfe that can’t take adantage of it?
Where you even aware that Charigun was off Elsolso? I set up targets and recheck my figures on drop every 10 yards and on some guns like the 400 every 5 yards, both from bags and from field postions I use.
That is why I cast my own air gun slugs and test them at 260 yards for accuracy out of a Air Force rifle.
I read here where people download that information into their phone apps, great tool, but unless you know that Chairgun is usually off an inch to a inch and a half at the longer distances, but that is trajectory 101, and unless you lazer the range and measure the drop and the incline of your range your never going to know it.
Then it really becomes apparent when poi shifts occurer from fill pressures or frame flex or the AF Demon of the day.
Regards,
Roachcreek
Never used chairgun
I use paper targets, known distances, and a chronograph as my tools.
Knowing the drop for your rifle /ammo is more important than the inherent differences in mechanical accuracy between two rifles.
1OldGuy2
These guns will shoot, you just have to have patience and learn to tune.
RC ,
Thanks for the insults, and trying to belittle me .
Tofazfou
What is the main way you used your air force rifle, full fill and heavy pellets with a longer string.
Stx4 if I remember righteve speaks the truth, you can quickly get into serious cash on these mods and have as much in the AF platform as a nice FX or Daystate.
Regards,
Roachcreek
A big +1
Oldguy,
Stx4 if I remember righteve speaks the truth, you can quickly get into serious cash on these mods and have as much in the AF platform as a nice FX or Daystate.
And Steve also has the distinction of making one of the best skilled/lucky shots on a running coyote with his MRod, between the boat and the prize 4×4 perferating the liver on the poor dog.
He is never parting with that rod.
Regards,
Roachcreek
Welcome aboard 1OldGuy2. As others have mentioned, you may be completely satisfied with the AF line and have no desire to buy a more exspensive rifle… Many are! You may decide that you want more out of your investment, but either way to me, it’s about the journey and not the destination. I have found the greatest pleasure in the details and experiences along the way. Enjoy your rifle and have fun tweaking it and shooting it. Welcome to this very fine madhouse! 😉
It’s true that many of us have started with “$500 airguns” and think we are crazy for spending that much. As we travel along our airgun journey, we quickly learn of the AirArms, BSA, Daystate, Edgun, FX, Rapids, etc..,(I still really like my .25 Marauder.) We learn about BKL rings and all of the best scopes. We buy CF tanks and compressors to support our addiction. For some people, the AF gun fill their needs do what they want them to do. For many others, the AF gun is the first step on the PCP trail.
I so want to try an FX Royale 500. However, my .25 Marauder does what I want it do very well. That’s MY application of close range, 24 feet, varmint/pest elimination. It also serves me well at 35 to 45 yards to eliminate the ground squirrels. So I really don’t need an FX, or Daystate. It’s different for others. Other people get tired of the AF tuning and re-tuning and work their way up looking for the right airgun. To which I say, Right On!!! 😀
It would be nice Oldguy, if you could try these different airguns before you start spending money. On the other hand, the journey is cool and I wouldn’t want to cheat you out of the many and varied experiences that will make savy to our sport/addiction. Have fun!
Oldguy,
Welcome to the madness.
My condor is an older model and it IS NOT a TONY AAA gun at all so i can’t compare but. Truthfully, my condor gave me inconsistency problems and i dealt with it for as long as i could until i shot an FX and a Rapid. They were guns of my friends. Needless to say, the feel of the Condor compared to the “EUROPEAN” guns was just DIFFERENT. The FX and RAPID were smoother in every way. So i made the switch and never looked back and never will.
Like RC and his FX, i can pick up my Rapid and have the utmost confidence in her that she will be dead on from the last time i shot it. And that will be proven today when i go out in about and hour. I never had that feeling with Condor. But again, when i owned my Condor a lot of the stuff that’s out now for the Condor was not available then. But oh well, the Condor now collects dust.
Again, mine showed signs of brilliance but only for short burst of time then all would go awry and i would have to resight in twice in the same hunting day. Hopefully, you WILL NOT have this problem with your set up. Not trying to be a Debbie Downer but just stating my experiences. I know your AAA gun will be better.
I will also say this, while i am ALL FOR AMERICAN, brotha, the EUROPEANS have lead the way in Airgunning for a long time and WE have a long way to go to catch up (sorry but it’s the truth). I have 4 American (crosman, airforce, jack haley, corsair) brands of guns and they compare not to the European stuff. As RC stated, the only thing the Condor has over the European guns is POWER and a unique but cool look, and that’s it.
I can read by your original post that you are out for accuracy and being a powderburner guy, i know what you are used to. Sparrows at 100 yards can be done but that’s a feat with airguns. I too shoot both Air and Powder and i know what your thinking…….lol. Be patient with the Air Guns and keep them within their limitations and you will have some serious fun. They can reach out there and touch stuff but as others stated, practice, practice, practice.
Have fun and keep us up to date on your airgun adventures.
Old guy could in fact be the case.
BTW, we debate like this all the time, and at imes with a little more profanity.
RC
Damn “roachcreek” we my be brothers seperated at birth. 😆
Elsolo,
Perhaps for you Elsolo, but I don’t buy into that statement.
I have been dealing with those factors most of my life as I have been a long range shooter since the age of 12, it started for me shooting into my old man’s plowed field and realized the 1 mile range statement on the 22 ammo box was bullshit. The cultimation was shooting daily on my 1100 yard range.
Within a week I was taking 22 cartirdges a part on the sly and reloading them with more powder until I blew the extractors out of my old springfield 22, that and a Lee loader for a 30-30 at a way too early age made it unlikely I would grow to adulthood, but I did and now you have to deal with it. 😛
Thinking you know the wind deflection and trajectory of your cartridge or projectile because you read it off a computer screen does ot cut it for me, I want to see and experience it in person, and once you do , then how consistant or erratic a rifle performs is very important, because what is the use of that knowledge if you have a rilfe that can’t take adantage of it?
Where you even aware that Charigun was off Elsolso? I set up targets and recheck my figures on drop every 10 yards and on some guns like the 400 every 5 yards, both from bags and from field postions I use.
That is why I cast my own air gun slugs and test them at 260 yards for accuracy out of a Air Force rifle.
I read here where people download that information into their phone apps, great tool, but unless you know that Chairgun is usually off an inch to a inch and a half at the longer distances, but that is trajectory 101, and unless you lazer the range and measure the drop and the incline of your range your never going to know it.
Then it really becomes apparent when poi shifts occurer from fill pressures or frame flex or the AF Demon of the day.
Regards,
Roachcreek
At 100 yds, knowing your drop chart and how to dope the wind are a bigger factor than the inherent accuracy differences of these rifles.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Got your panties all wadded up?
We have a difference of opinion about what’s more important, the indian or the arrow, try not to be such an internet blowhard.