What do you think of an Edgun in cal .30?
Looking at Ted’s new video comparing 22 to 25, I can not help but be a prophet for today. I predict that 22 will be 22, but the cal 30 will be the new 25 someday soon and it will stay the way for a long long time.
What say you brothers and sisters in the beloved hobby?
All Replies
It is the limited performance of a “pellet” gun that has rendered it safe from harm when it comes to enforcing firearms laws and regulations. Illinois is a good example of rampant regulations on pellet guns. Nothing faster than 700 fps, nothing bigger than .117 caliber, no internet sales allowed on guns exceeding these limitations.
So what happens when Evanix delivers a fully/semi-automatic .30 caliber pcp rifle capable of firing clip fed, boat-tail, poly-tipped jacketed slugs of 65 to 250 grains in weight, capable of a kill shot on 100 lb+ game, of up to 200 yards, utilizing air pressures of 4500 psi?
This rifle could be mass produced today, with current technology.
When our “hobby” became this advanced, we climbed in bed with the powder burners, and can match, or beat, their performance on the range. Perhaps never in fps or fpe, but that’s not important. What’s important is when the design and performance of an air rifle becomes sufficient to equal the [b]lethality[/b] of a powder burner/firearm.
Only price, limited quantity, and lack of adverse publicity, remain the barriers between us and Federal extension of “firearm laws” to the air gun community.
We call them “air guns”, but it makes no legal difference what specific gas propelled a bullet, or how that gas was produced, when the weapon is capable of killing humans at long distance. Be it accident, or on purpose, we all know it’s a matter of time before one criminal discovers that potential, and the Liberal media will begin an outcry for an “investigation” to determine why “air guns” are exempt from gun laws when they are equally as deadly, and silent to boot.
“Firearm” is just a word. It can easily be replaced by the term “weapon” in all existing legislation. When lethality becomes identical, combined with illegal actions, common sense will mandate that simple word change, and air guns will be fully regulated.
Just my thoughts, but my logic is sound.
Kindly ‘Ol Uncle H 😯 😯 T
Funny, I didn’t find the word “EdGun” in this post… In fact the rifle he is so concerned about (vaporware Evanix) doesn’t exist (4500psi) and if anything, is the LAST kind of rifle Ed would build. Good luck even hopping up a regulated 25 cal EdGun to move 63grain slugs at 850fps…
If 22 & 25 calibers can already produce the “lethality” of a firearm and they are so bad why has Hoot ordered a new Edgun then? 😕 😯 Doesn’t make any sense if he thinks they will lead to the downfall our our hobby…
Crosman has their hand in it too right? XP, Sam Yang, Career they already make larger than 30 cal pellet rifles.
Btw the 30cal pellets are 47grains… Does Surefire even make a slug that small? 😕 🙄
A 30cal of 47grains at 850fps is 75fpe…
A 25cal of 63grain Surefire slug (the smallest made) at 850 is 101fpe…
So the Condor in 25 is actually destroying the hobby faster than the virtual EdGun in 30… IIRC Hoot has/had a 25cal Condor? Why isn’t Hoot’s post in the Surefire slug section? And if it is such a concern why has Hoot bought Surefire slugs?
I understand where Hoot is coming from but in perspective the 30cal pellet that is being produced is only making 75% of what the smallest 25 caliber slug can do at the same velocity. That is why it’s a ‘sky is falling’ post in a topic that really doesn’t warrant it…
A 30cal EdGun would do exactly NOTHING to destroy the hobby compared to what the Rogue/Condor/XP/SamYang has already done if what Hoot is saying is true.
The question was “What do you think of an Edgun in cal .30?”
and HOOT (and myself in an earlier topic) stated we thought in general it was a bad idea. Not totally off track.
Anyone that has been posting on the Edgun and Bullpup forum for awhile
knows topics are not strictly adhered to especially on the larger threads.
This has never bothered any of the regulars 😀 Not going to find too
many tight-asses here. 😉
Quite the opposite, I just choose to look at the reality of our situation. If tptb want to take away our right to bear arms what exactly can or will we do? They already removed due process and destroyed the bill of rights and there was little to no outcry nor opposition (in fact most people here will vote for the very party that was the majority of the votes. So the sad fact is most folks who believe in the BOR ‘conservatives’ will vote for the very party that took them away, how fucking retarded is that?). When tptb get around to pellet guns what is anyone going to do really? Look at what happened to England, nobody went revolutionary to stop it they just rolled over and took it up the ass. We rolled over on our bor’s being taken, we are no different than the folks that have to register 12fpe plus rifles in reality (if you really care how can you be selective?). The truth will be twisted toward tptb’s ends, if we stop building semi auto 9mm air rifles it will not change ANYTHING. Once they start taking away the rest of our rights it will happen regardless of what is or is not available in calibers, take England for a perfect example… If you believe ‘we the people’ can stop this you haven’t been paying attention.
But I digress.
My point is IF it’s such a concern for Hoot why not post the diatribe in a topic where it truly belongs? Such as this one where 600fpe is the goal…
http://www.talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23408&sid=0e90eb340f17159723acf1622af1d7d6
And not in a topic where the question was “do you think the new 25cal will be the 30″…
But that poster isn’t new so Hoot won’t do it. Interesting ain’t it?
Actually Yoda it was meant in jest.
And I have traveled the world and seen different concepts of freedom, one of them being on this forum and the ability to stray from the subject.
So thicken up that skin buddy your going to need it here, we jest a lot.
BTW we also have royal blood here, well at least the Democratrs do, they are called Kennedy’s and they hunt pussy.
RC
Hi Roachcreek
Despite my disclaimer you thougt i was talking/ commenting your right to buy the gun you like.
I must presume you missed that part when i specified i was not.
(which im still not interested to discuss, by the way).
I was sticking to the post topic “what doygou think about a matador 30 cal”.
Don’t think the post was intended to discuss USA or uk airgun law.
Besides, you should avoid generalizing labeling people by country, ie US are males rest of the world not, or US is freedom rest of the worldis not, you might be surprised to find out reality is not what you perceive.
Btw i’m not british so i didn’t take It personally, but lets avoid starting a flame on something i didn’t even intended to discuss.
You were discussing political issues with your fellow americans, please carry on without attaking this side of the world.
“what i think of a matader 30 cal”? It was not intended to be like that, so there must be a reson.
Question answered, from my side.
Thanks
If I had the money to buy all kinds of guns, why not…….
But for now, no.. keep the quality and improve your existing products.
Maybe do as a sideproject something different (Morana in 9mm perhaps?), that’s ok, but keep the focus…
Yoda,
Shooting bricks. 😆 Who says a airgun has to be defined by power?
It is an American thing, we call it freedom, it is a fleeting concept, we have not quite been emasculated to the point that you englishmen have, but our government is still working on it.
As one who shoots ‘bricks’ with air, I have to say I enjoy it, but like I said, we still have the freedom here to shoot bricks at 1000 lb free roaming beasts with air if we choose. And we get to do this not in gardens, but on public land for the price of a hunting license and a tag,
You do still remember freedom don’t you? Well of course not, that was well before your time. 😛 Well freedom is what your princes get to do on their estates, and of course why we rude americans kicked them out of our lives in the late 1700’s.
Freedom unfortunately is something that my children will live to see the end of. 😥
408 grain brick doing 600 FPE with air
Regards,
Roachcreek
HOOT, thanks for the credit!
Ed posted here that he was trying out a couple of 25 cal LW barrels on the 22 cal long version R2.5s. I work second shift and I am up all night. Due to the Russia-US time difference, I saw his post before MamCrackin did. We both wanted a 25 cal long version!
After a 9 month wait, I got mine first! I don’t know how many R2.5 25 cal longs Ed made but, there are only 6 guys that post here that have them.
The R2.5s were set up to shoot the 37 grain Einjins at 950fps. The 25.4 JSBs were 1050fps. The Einjins weren’t accurate and the JSBs were too fast for good accuracy.
I tried turning the Matador down to shoot the JSBs at 950. The air valve rod would only take that for around 3,000-4,000 shots before breaking and the accuracy wasn’t as good as I got when I finally quit chasing big numbers and went down to the 890s for the best accuracy. I have never broken an air valve rod at 890.
Ed would have to come up with at least a new air valve assembly and possibly a new regulator to shoot even a 37 grain pellet in the 800-900 range. In my opinion, the current Matador is just about maxed out at 25.4 grains at 900 fps. The new JSB 37 grain pellet, for the Daystate 303 Wolverine, no matter what speed it is being shot, has to have a horrible BC and it would drop like a rock!
The dialbo pellet was designed for a pellet rifle that, back then, was only good for 50 yards. We are trying to push them farther than they were designed for.
I have a 22 and a 25 cal NON choked LW barrels on order. I also have a BSA blank being fitted for my R3 25 cal long. I have access to 22 cal rim fire lead bullets and I am working on having a 47 grain 25 cal cast bullet mold made. I have a Lee sizing press on order, with the proper resizing dies for the 22 bullets. I also have sizing dies ordered for the 25 cal JSBs, I want to see if resizing them at .247”, 248”, 249” makes a difference. I also have a bunch of sizing dies on order for the 25 cast bullets
I don’t know if the Matador will take shooting 50 grain 25 cal bullets at 800-900fps but, I am goiing to find out. I have 5 extra air valve rods in stock!
Just to clarify, i’m not discussing about legal issues or the right to buy a weapon (that’s off topic and beyond the post discussion).
One buys whatever gunpower needed/ liked, im talking about matadors.
Cheers
Besides my erlier joke, when an airgun gets too similar to a firearm, there it ends intresting me.
i associate air rifles with fast flying, very accurate, chirurgic pellet shots. When it is just an exercise to fire a ever increasingly fatter brick, i’m out.
Most of our enjoyiment comes from the fact that our rifle is usable in most enviromenst, someone uses it in the back garden, were possible, without having to worry to miss the target and kill the cow behind the wall.
It is like enjoying gokarting, and then pimp the chassis up and up, to eventually turn it into a monster truck.
That’s another sport.
My 2 cents.
Ps
Besides, Ed hates the 25, a fatter pellet would just disrupt the ballistic even more. Anyway, if Ed wants to add a further caliber for his customers (some with “safari” requirements) why not.
Hoot,
That day is here and past.
We have had for several years air rifles that exceed hot 45 LC power levels.
And the politicians will in fact state by state put a level on the power range of air guns, it is inevitable.
I am 62 and I live in Oregon, we are a little behind the current rush to extinguish what few rights that were left by our forefathers, but I rest assured those rights in Oregon will outlast me and my time deterating body.
Hoot we lived in the best times, we had the wealth of the WWII generation to raise us in their prosperity, we were the last generation with true American rights and we were the last generation to actually be able to improve upon the living conditions of the prior generation.
What that translates to, is we had the ability to experience the different generations of firearms and air guns, and the properity to purchase them.
And on top of that we had medical break thrus that gave us hardons until we were to old to remember what they were for and end up using them to keep us from rolling out of bed in a nursing home. 😛
Now about a 30 caliber pellet rifle, nope. But make it shoot bullets and I will be there waiting on the Brown Truck.
Regards,
Roachcreek
Evanix is in the process of shipping a semi auto (could even be full auto) 9mm to follow their full auto 17/22/25cal…
Truth is a 17cal pellet in the right/wrong place can kill a full grown adult relatively quickly. There was a kid who died recently, can’t remember if he was shot by his friend or if he was shot when picking up a loaded bb gun. The shot went between his ribs and entered either his lungs or heart, he was dead before the ambulance arrived. Same type of situation could kill an adult, and so could getting in a car accident, chances of that are far higher as well.
And the way the whole government is headed (not just the “liberals” who are leading the whole freakout crusade) firearms and air guns could soon be just a paragraph in the history books.
Problem is the manufacturers are looking for $$ and the people will buy them. The situations that make them illegal will be situations where they are being used illegally and quite honestly an illegal PB is far cheaper than a full auto 9mm 4500psi airgun by a ratio of at least 1/3.
It’s already illegal to point a bb gun at someone in a threatening manner, it carries the same penalty as pointing a PB at someone in California and probably a few other states.
Children who shoot themselves or each other are illegally using the airguns without supervision.
Shit just shooting them in your backyard is going to push the move toward making them illegal along quite nicely. But you wouldn’t know anything about that would you? 😆 😉
But here is where you logic about criminals breaks down a little. What is a small illegal pistol on the street 300 to 500 bucks, less? And you think the crooks will mailorder a $1500+ rifle that needs more than $500 in support equipment? They are pretty stupid to begin with but an AG is a lot of work, stupid likes simple. Kids are not going to buy $2000 dollars worth of airgun stuff when they can get a Condor for less than half that. The chances of crooks and kids killing folks with $2000 airguns over PB’s is minimal. Shit you bring a pellet gun to a PB fight you deserve to get smoked, one less moron in the gene pool. Problem solves itself eventually.
No matter what we say on this forum what you speak of is going to happen, so, why not post the same diatribe on the 308 build in the Mods section? Here the guy just posited a totally reasonable question (Daystate is already producing a 30cal rifle and JSB is making 30cal pellets) and you went all Yellow forum liberal sky is falling nut job on him…
I would not call it a nut job yellow liberal sky is falling diatribe. I think he was only stateing his own concern about our hobby.
Okay so mabe No one is going to buy a $2000.+ rifle to do something illegal, but theft happens. maybe this theif is familer with our air rifles and how they work and who has one. He could then use it illegally.
Yes criminals can be stupid, but some do there home work on what to steel what is valuble. Also do you think there is a data base on the barrel rifeling like there is on PB rifles? If not, why not use an AG to commit a crime, It’s much harder to get caught.
Again these are just concerns. Do you want our country to become like Europe is with AGs? Do you wat to have to registir you rifle and have to apply for a special permit to own an AG over 12 FPE? I sure don’t! Yet again these are just concerns. You almost sound like a person who thinks if we just ignore it, it will go away.
Gary
Hoot, that time is already here… There are plenty of pellet rifles capable of more power than a few rifle cartridges. Just about any 30+ caliber big bore puts out more fpe than a hv 22lr round (a 40grain lv 22lr going 1070fps is 100fpe).
Evanix is in the process of shipping a semi auto (could even be full auto) 9mm to follow their full auto 17/22/25cal…
Truth is a 17cal pellet in the right/wrong place can kill a full grown adult relatively quickly. There was a kid who died recently, can’t remember if he was shot by his friend or if he was shot when picking up a loaded bb gun. The shot went between his ribs and entered either his lungs or heart, he was dead before the ambulance arrived. Same type of situation could kill an adult, and so could getting in a car accident, chances of that are far higher as well.
And the way the whole government is headed (not just the “liberals” who are leading the whole freakout crusade) firearms and air guns could soon be just a paragraph in the history books.
Problem is the manufacturers are looking for $$ and the people will buy them. The situations that make them illegal will be situations where they are being used illegally and quite honestly an illegal PB is far cheaper than a full auto 9mm 4500psi airgun by a ratio of at least 1/3.
It’s already illegal to point a bb gun at someone in a threatening manner, it carries the same penalty as pointing a PB at someone in California and probably a few other states.
Children who shoot themselves or each other are illegally using the airguns without supervision.
Shit just shooting them in your backyard is going to push the move toward making them illegal along quite nicely. But you wouldn’t know anything about that would you? 😆 😉
But here is where you logic about criminals breaks down a little. What is a small illegal pistol on the street 300 to 500 bucks, less? And you think the crooks will mailorder a $1500+ rifle that needs more than $500 in support equipment? They are pretty stupid to begin with but an AG is a lot of work, stupid likes simple. Kids are not going to buy $2000 dollars worth of airgun stuff when they can get a Condor for less than half that. The chances of crooks and kids killing folks with $2000 airguns over PB’s is minimal. Shit you bring a pellet gun to a PB fight you deserve to get smoked, one less moron in the gene pool. Problem solves itself eventually.
No matter what we say on this forum what you speak of is going to happen, so, why not post the same diatribe on the 308 build in the Mods section? Here the guy just posited a totally reasonable question (Daystate is already producing a 30cal rifle and JSB is making 30cal pellets) and you went all Yellow forum liberal sky is falling nut job on him…
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Synopsys,
Well put.
We hijack threads.
The sky is not falling.
Fuck you very much, 😛
Rockcreek