what is the truth about AF guns ?
Trying to get honest, straight answers concerning the accuracy of AF rifles.
Reason for asking; Close to purchasing my first AF gun.
Function first, accuracy second, etc., etc.
Having trouble finding pics of groups shot with AF guns, especially 30-50 yard groups.
I was under the assumption that LW barrels are accurate.
From what I have read and seen, most speak of power and little concerning accuracy.
Peoples taste change from time to time, and mine does too. At this particular time, i`m interested in a Talon P. May be a Condor next month. Who knows.
What kind of accuracy can one expect from an AF gun?.
Have been into airgunning a few years and own multiple guns.
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Yeah, it doesn’t seem to matter what you shoot at, still fun. Yesterday I was shooting empty 12ga shells at 50 yards (al la Ted’s Holdover). First they were upright, then just the metal bases after they tipped over. Shot my fair share of rocks too. 😀
I know what you mean Wolf! (I just got over the Damed flu, and yes, I had the shoot! :evil:)
So I took my frustration out on a few rocks on my front yard range. (Too cheap to buy metal or little army men. 😆 )
AND, I Feel Muuuuuuuch better now! 😀 😈
Mike
The Truth about AF A’guns is that it is a Journey.
It can be a very rewarding one! 😀
Well written ericw
Mike
I agree completely. The AF guns tend to be what you make of them. They can be great out of the box, or mediocre. For many, myself included, the satisfaction is in the successful tuning of the gun for a specific purpose. Mine is set up for miniature steel knock downs on my back yard range (25 to 80 yards). I’ve added many pieces and tried many different set-ups. Each change was interesting and enjoyable. I just came in from shooting and as always it was great. 😀
Horrible as in 5+ inch groups at 70 yards, 2.5 – 4 inch at 50, and 2 – 3 inches at 25 yards from my Talon SS. And that’s using JSB’s with power level 6.
Mike
If it is your barrel, you should recrown it or have someone do it. Have you checked your FPS over a chrony?
My 18″ .25 with mad dog stock, talon tunes built is a one hole accurate @ 25 yards rifle! If I do my part, it will stack pellet on top of pellet. Last night I slept with her next to me in bed 😀
I’m going to look into one of these. My LW .22 barrel is horrid… Exchanging it out for another .22 and see what happens. =\
Horrible as in 5+ inch groups at 70 yards, 2.5 – 4 inch at 50, and 2 – 3 inches at 25 yards from my Talon SS. And that’s using JSB’s with power level 6.
Mike
My Talon SS in .22 shot terrific right out of the box. I added the R&L long shroud with no change in accuracy. I haven’t had a chance to shoot it beyond 30 yards, but at thirty yards and below it will shoot dime sized groups all day long with JSB 18.1g match diabolos. No issues with the trigger. Mine is very consistent and predictable with less than 2lb pull. The safety sucks and the factory butt plate is horrible. I’ve ordered a Wokbutt from Adam which hopefully makes a big difference. If not, a Maddog stock is probably in my future. Either that, or I might add an FX or Daystate to the closet 🙂
I had a LW Polygonal .20 cal fitted this past weekend to my condor, it is 530mm long and topped off with a Daystate Airstream5 carbon silencer, this is a grouping done out to 80m/ 87.48yards, she is running at a steady 980fps on 14.3gr Webley’s.
Kinda says what many of us have discovered about our AF A’guns.
The Truth about AF A’guns is that it is a Journey.
It can be a very rewarding one! 😀
Well written ericw
Mike
I’ve been using and “fixing”/tweaking on my Condor since last July when I got it new and here is a list of the things I have experienced, fixed or relplaced to make it shoot right:
1. I made a one piece walnut stock for it to fix the frame flex issues and make it look better too :). There was a marked improvement with not requiring any special hold to make it shoot better than a springer.
2 I put a supersear trigger mod in it. The factory trigger sucks and is sticky, hard to pull at times, inconsistent etc. The supersear mod is fantastic when adjusted properly and now I have a real first stage, followed by a crisp release.. perfect!
3. I added a shroud from rlairgunsupply.com There were issues with that but not the fault of AF in any way. I am happy with the one from him I now have that is made of Aluminum vs. the old steel heavy one. It works good.
4. I added a couple more barrel bushings between the two that are there already to make things more rigid. I am not sure if it added to stability but I have no reason now to remove them.
5. I went through 3 spin loc tanks to get one with a valve that worked right and would fill without losing its air. Pretty weird but AF was absolutely great with sending me new ones before returning the old ones. I am real happy with AF on the service.
6. I was noticing that my FPS numbers were behaving through shot strings with the exception of a wild drop in speed maybe every 8 or 10 shots. I had been trying to adjust the top hat in to reduce power a bit and had it at about .065 or so. I called AF and they thought it was probably the breech to top hat seal not being good enough with the hat adjusted in too far. I adjusted it out about a quarter turn at a time as instructed by them and it did fix the problem. Following that I also replaced the factory o-rings with 90 dura polyurethane ones (white). They have been working real good. In the process I polished the narrow end of the barrel to a mirror finish (didn’t remove material beyond just the polishing).
7. In cleaning out the hammer/spring area of the gun I found something real interesting. On the stock hammer spring there was a paper label still glued to it that said on one side “Silencer” and on the other side “Spring”. I removed it but thought that was pretty strange. I polished the ends of the spring and lubed the stuff in there with silicone grease (thin coat).
8. I noticed that on the top of the breech cocking block there was a line being worn where the cocking slot rubbed. I filed and polished the under side edges of the slot.
9. The cocking lever neck was wearing (pounding) away at the aluminum stop on the side I usually cocked it on. I machined a new collar for the cocking shaft, lubed it up real good and filed off the burrs left by the old cocking lever washer/collar. The factory collar was not slipping like it should and in fact was responsible for creating the burrs in the cocking slot that ate into the top of the cocking block. After thousands of more shots .. this problem is gone. I think that factory washer/collar they give for that is crap and tends to bend out at the top to expose a sharp edge. AF sent me a new one but the one I made is much better.
10. I have trouble with the gun shooting JSB kings too fast with any fill pressure over maybe 2100. Too fast means at velocities about 1025 or so, regardless of where the power wheel is set. Accuracy gets bad with pellets wobbling all over at those speeds. So… until yesterday I was shooting at lower fill pressures with power wheel on about 1 or 2 (as I say it didnt make much difference except maybe to save some air). I just put a rubber o-ring in under the top hat ( I used one of the green HNBR size A010 1/4×3/8×1/16 ones). I had to adjust my top hat out a little but found I could now drop my speed at higher pressures. Shot velocity curve through strings is real smooth and now I can fill to 2300 or more and shoot under 1000 fps. Thanks to all those on here who provided their stories on doing this mod. It really works for me so far. If the ring doesn’t change much I am real happy.
There you have it. My pseudo “log” of what I went through to get my .25 cal Condor to shoot like I want. It shoots where I point it and now I am the limiting factor for sure. Quarter size groups at 75 yards are making me happy 🙂
The AF guns are a real exercise in solving issues that maybe a good tune would avoid up front. If you were to just sit down and do all these things to a new AF gun it might take just a few hours but to discover them and fix one at a time it took me months. Maybe I should have just got a pre-tuned gun from Tony or Randy up front but I did have fun and am happy to own the Condor!
Having said that, a longer barrel is easier to tune efficiently for so most shooters find themselves shooting better with one.
The real accuracy goal is shot-to-shot consistency. That will stack them if the barrel likes the projectile used.
Makes since.
Barrel length has nothing to do with accuracy.
Having said that, a longer barrel is easier to tune efficiently for so most shooters find themselves shooting better with one.
The real accuracy goal is shot-to-shot consistency. That will stack them if the barrel likes the projectile used.
Thanks guys for all your input.
My experience over the years has been that short barrels can be just as accurate as longer barrels IF the quality is there.
Sight radius should be left out of the equation because most use optics.
That just leaves weight, flex, pressure per inch of barrel, proper technique, pellet match, etc..
In other words, placed in a vice, the 12″ barrels should be just as accurate as the longer barrels, with preferred pellet of course.
I don’t know if it makes a difference but the 12″ barrel is much lighter than the 18″ and 24″ barrels. Notice how the barrel diameter of the 12″ barrel is smaller than the diameter of the 18″ and 24″ barrels.
This may have something to do with accuracy but from what I’ve heard and read all of the Airforce barrels are good out to 50+ yards.
Mike
Is the LW Polygon LW s version of an FX smooth twist?.
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