Why adjust the top hat, should it strike the valve body ?
Shouldn’t the top hat be set where it does not impact the valve body, therefore the only opposing forces are the valve spring and the tank pressure ? Or does the top hat have to strike the valve body else there is enough hammer force for a tank dump, even at high tank pressure ?
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Yeah I don’t understand it either. You want the breech against the tophat so there is not gap, but if you change the tophat now you have a gap. The best way to do it is to be able to shim the travel. I had to do that on my Blod valve. To make it tight with the breech it was able to move .184. So i made a delrin spacer to let it only move .100.
I’m still not getting it……..
I thank you all for your inputs and I will re-read some more, BUT the one point I don’t understand is this:
Since the top hat should never strike the valve body, the end point is the counter action of the tank pressure and valve spring.
Soooo.. the striking force created by the hammer and main spring creates the start point and the counter force creates the end point of travel of the valve.
I still don’t see what the adjustment of a few thousands of the top hat is going to do, when the hammer is travelling approximately 1.6 inches ???
The adjusment of the top hat can only affect beginning of the air flow by micro milliseconds which has no relevancy to better anything ???
The only thing that I can think of is that the top hat should be adjusted as close to the valve body without striking it to allow for further travel of the hammer before impact… (unless you are actually using the top hat to vary the distance the hammer travels, instead fo using the powerwheel)
Yes. The method is this: ask yourself what you want to do with the gun. Thrashing about with a gun, a chrony and a truckload of air will gain you little if you have no idea what you want to do with them. Don’t be a kid in a candystore. Figure out what you want and work toward it. Goal oriented behaviour beats out thrashing about every day of the week except sunday.
walt
Don’t let the top hat strike the valve body under any circumstances!
Understanding the where’s and why’s of the balance between top hat gap, hammer weights, various spring tensions, and fill pressures/regulated pressure, is going to take some time to digest and understand.
There are no simple answers to achieving the balance of shot count, power (fpe) and pellet speeds (fps) you personally desire. Too many variables are involved.
Go back and re-read the stickies. The answers are in there, and are presented in a number of different wordings. Be patient. This will take you some time and experience before all this begins to drop into place.
No one will work this problem out for you, so don’t expect a quick and easy answer. Everyone here had to get hands on experience before understanding came. Read, read, and read some more. Eventually it will begin to fall into place.
Kindly ‘Ol Uncle Hoot 😯
CONFUSED…
Okay – I went back and re-read the sticky and I’m missing something.
First, the top hat should never strike the valve body.
So what does it matter if the gap is .070 or .125, as the valve will move the same distance when opening from the force of the hammer vs the counterforce of the valve spring and tank pressure ???
The only reason to set the top hat gap is to just barely strike the valve body ???
My tophat was set at .125 or 1/8inch from airforce, which is a good starting point. If that’s too much power, turn it toward the bottle, in other words shorten the gab between tophat and bottle.
A quarter and a penny stacked together equals 1/8 inch or .125inches. If you have a set of feeler gauges, use them. Anywhere between .125 or .100 should work ok. A chrony helps, but is not necessary.
Oops my condor was a .22, your mileage will vary, of course.
Sam 😎
I read that and all I can say is whoa.. that seems like alot of experimenting, especially if one wants to use many different pellets. My needs are 10-15 shots with larger 25 caliber pellets (35.8 , 43.2 and maybe 60.2 gr), probably staying in the 2600 to 3000 range. Is there any method before trial and error to get close ?
Won’t the best efficeincy being let the valve spring and tank pressure do it’s thing OR are you saying by closing faster it is more efficient, therefore you defintion of efficient is using only as much air as to get the pellet out the barrel at max speed and no more. ?
But how would you know you are wasting air, without a lot of experimenting ?
You wouldn’t you have to experiment. I would read up on some posts in the Quick Ref section
http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=14
You will find info there on how the platform operates.
Lots of your answers are in there 😉 😉
Won’t the best efficeincy being let the valve spring and tank pressure do it’s thing OR are you saying by closing faster it is more efficient, therefore you defintion of efficient is using only as much air as to get the pellet out the barrel at max speed and no more. ?
But how would you know you are wasting air, without a lot of experimenting ?
You wouldn’t you have to experiment. I would read up on some posts in the Quick Ref section
http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=14
You will find info there on how the platform operates.
Won’t the best efficeincy being let the valve spring and tank pressure do it’s thing OR are you saying by closing faster it is more efficient, therefore you defintion of efficient is using only as much air as to get the pellet out the barrel at max speed and no more. ?
But how would you know you are wasting air, without a lot of experimenting ?
The top hat should not hit the top of the bottle.
You adjust the tophat to get the the best efficiency out of your gun.
If you are talking about hitting the bottle you are doing it wrong. 😀
Then why do so many speak about adjusting their top hat setting ?
No it should not! Some put an o-ring behind the tophat to prevent it hitting the valve body! It’s being hit to hard if it does?
Sam 😕
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Yes – I have to agree. The Top Hat is genetically tied to the Breech not the Valve. The Valve is soley independent without the Top Hat. Had the Breech been design to act upon the Valve Stem, there would be no need for a Top Hat.
The only need to adjust the Top Hat Screw is to remove the gap between Breech and Top Hat when the Breech Knob is properly set in the Breech Knob Slot, so that the energy transfer from the hammer never jumps a gap all the way to the Valve Stem Seat.
Vibration and impact or two of the biggest dispersants of energy. Good for ending the pellet travel, not good for starting the pellet travel.