Q:

"RISE" of the TalonDor 257 (pic heavy)

I know…..the title is all dramatic huh? LOL! As the title states, I have brought the old talon/condor back to life and even gave it a well deserved caliber swap.

Back Story (short version): I purchased a Air Force Talon in 22 back in 2005. As most Talons go, it came with a 18″ .22 cal LW barrel. While being a fun gun, i found it difficult to reach “WAY OUT THERE”. Because i hunt in the desert (so cal), I needed a gun with more oomph! So I bought a 24″ LW 22 cal barrel along with a Condor tank. Along with the longer barrel and Condor tank, i performed some tuning that i learned here on the TAG. The gun was pushing 22 cal Eun Jins at over 1075 FPS in 22. To make a long story even shorter, I then purchased a 25 cal barrel and breech and top hat combo for even more power. The gun was a thumper to say the least. But after all these mods and a LOT of hunting, I was never truly satisfied with the all out accuracy of the gun. After some years of ownership of the TalonDor 25 and the introduction of the Rapid25, I retired the TalonDor in about 2008 or so. Here is a old pic of the TalonDor:

Present day: After much pondering and taking a look at “WHATS” out there, my taste have turned to long range shooting with airguns. I mean, I’ve always done long range shooting with airguns since i started in them but, I’ve always wanted something that was not only powerful but, something that was accurate and had looks. I also wanted something that shoots BULLETS and not pellets. I mean, if your gonna go long range, why not use the right tools. And while pellets can travel far, they simply do NOT outperform bullets. The Daystate Wolverine had come to mind but, it’s a odd caliber with odd weighted bullets for the power plant. So i got to seriously thinking about what caliber I would want. I already had a 454 and a 457 and a 308. It wasn’t until RJ Porter post that it hit me………hmmmmmmm……….257! Why not? I had already done the big and medium calibers so why not a small caliber. And the idea was born. But what gun could i do this in. My Dragon Slayer was already in 454 and it’s very successful in that caliber. The Corsair can’t be taken apart (yet) so it was out. Both of these guns though make 250 FPE and are perfect candidates as a base. But I did not want to change or mess with those platforms as they both perform. And it wasn’t until one day, i was in the garage cleaning up that the idea hit me………….THE TALONDOR! WHY NOT!?

DYOTAT100: In comes Doug Noble or DYOTAT100 as he is known on this forum. I had been following his work and post and had found out he lives right down the freeway from me. I PM’d him about being interested in performing my “ideas” on my TalonDor. He was more than game and more than up to the task. GAME ON!!!!!!!!!!!

My Ideas:
The concept for this gun was simple. I wanted a long range rig. Something that could shoot accurately to OVER 75 yards! The same gun could easily reach out to 200 yards also. And do it accurately. And using the Air Force platform would be a stretch (no pun intended). The caliber would be 257 with a barrel that had a fast twist to keep the bullet stabilized while reaching out. I also wanted a 1 piece bushing for rigidity while in the frame. Doug also came up with the idea of a custom “tight” fitting frame end cap. For even more rigidity, I contacted Adam Vigil here on the TAG about his WOKGUARD15. I also ordered a DPMS AR15 pistol grip with beaver tail tang that I had to trim down to help support the bottle of the TalonDor. I got rid of the old custom pistol grip. I also decided to relocate the forearm closer to the Wokguard15 so everything in the vicinity would be fully supported and create LESS frame flex. I also had Doug install a second bolt into the forearm for more rigidity. The gun also already has a Tri-Rail. A new hammer weight, hammer spring would also be added to the gun. The hammer weight is of the Bore Riding design and made of brass.

Here are some pics of all the custom parts and the gun completely assembled:
OEM TRIGGER GUARD

WOKGUARD15


OLD PISTOL GRIP and TRIGGER GUARD

DPMS ADJUSTABLE PISTOL GRIP

CUSTOM KNURLED ALUMINUM/DELRIN COCKING KNOB

AIRFORCE BIPOD PAINTED WITH TRUCK BED LINER

OLD FOREARM PAINTED WITH TRUCK BED LINER




CUSTOM 95 GRAM BRASS HAMMER WEIGHT

CUSTOM PARTS ASSEMBLED ON 257 BARREL

RELOCATED BUSHING SET SCREWS-6 TOTAL-3 ON TOP/BOTTOM RIB

GUN ASSEMBLED WITHOUT SCOPE AND BIPOD

BULLETS OF CHOICE: LYMAN 65 GR FLAT POINT BULLET MOLD IN 257

OVERVIEW AND PERFORMANCE OF GUN ON ITS MAIDEN OUTING:
Needless to say, I am extremely happy with Doug’s work. His work is as nice in person as it is on the forums. I learned a lot about the Air Force line of products through Doug. Having a machinist or gunsmith run through these guns is pretty much NECESSARY. But on to the positives. I made a video of the gun while out on its maiden shooting session so I won’t go into too much verbal detail. But I will say that the gun is a performer and it lives up to my expectations. My initial groups printed in the 5/8″ CTC range at 60 yards. I was also able to print a 1.050″ CTC group at 110 lasered yards while shooting a small resettable popper target which is in the video. The gun also performs best at power setting 5-8 and 3100 psi and makes 132 FPE at that setting. The gun also has a bit of a kick and is pretty loud. But that’s ok, I don’t mind loud especially when the gun performs.


HOLD SENSITIVE:
Yes, the gun is very hold sensitive. Like most Air Force guns, she required a light hold. A snug hold makes the gun groups horribly. The gun also prefers PURE LEAD bullets over hard cast or bullets that are cast just a lil bit harder than pure lead (???????)

THE GUN FULLY ASSEMBLED

FUTURE MODS
All silver will become black (lol). The Morgan Adjustable butt pad will soon be replaced with a WOKBUTT

THE VIDEO:

General Chat

All Replies

Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 41 total)

1 2 3

Yeah, that’s what I am doing. When doug is set to work up my valve I will try to buy the barrel. This way I will have two options for that rifle. I will most likely trade the choked barrel for a shorter one… This way I can have the longer one for the bullets and the shorter one carbine length….

80G,

From what i can remember about my older Airforce barrel in 25, i cut off 2″ cause i remember reading that the choke was only the last 1.5″. My old 25 barrel NOW measures 22″, therefore, i did only cut off 2″. And yeah, cutting off a choke is risky cause once you do, if the results with “SAID” bullets arent favorable, you cant simply go back to shooting Kodiaks or any other pellet for example.

In all honesty, the TJ liner with 1-14 twist is a much better option. JUst hold tight until you get the money together. That’s what i would do.

I have Jerry’s surefire 9 rings, 7 rings, and 6 rings…The 53 grains are the bullets that look just like mellroadmans’s….I found them to be very accurate at short range and I have not really had the chance to do any serious long range testing with them. Once I get my new valve and 53ci bottle from Doug…I will start my 100 and 100 plus extravaganza 😀

80 grit what jerry slugs did you buy arnt the smallest the 6 rings and weigh something like 62gn

quote melloroadman:

quote 80 GRIT:

Did the lube increase accuracy or was it just to help reduce fouling?

Buy going to 8-10 bhn from 5 bhn is were the accuracy difference showed its biggest gain . Because the fouling was reduced to a very small amount . But the bullets are sizes to groove diameter not over to start with . I lube all my bullets to help fight the friction . It is a combination of many things that give me the results . It is something you might have to work at to achieve but to me it is worth not chopping my barrel to get .Marvin

Very good, thanks! 🙂

Jerry sent me some .251 (53 grain) bullets, not sure on the hardness of them…they shoot pretty good out of my choked barrel and I look forward to trying them at longer range when I speed them up a bit with Doug’s valve….

I have a few from Charlie as well….

quote 80 GRIT:

Did the lube increase accuracy or was it just to help reduce fouling?

Buy going to 8-10 bhn from 5 bhn is were the accuracy difference showed its biggest gain . Because the fouling was reduced to a very small amount . But the bullets are sizes to groove diameter not over to start with . I lube all my bullets to help fight the friction . It is a combination of many things that give me the results . It is something you might have to work at to achieve but to me it is worth not chopping my barrel to get .Marvin

Did the lube increase accuracy or was it just to help reduce fouling?

quote 80 GRIT:

MRM,

Cleaning of the barrels is something that is not often discussed around here. With most of my airguns (but I don’t shoot them as often as most guys here) I don’t touch the barrels until I see a drop in accuracy. I suppose there are far to many factors to come up with a general time frame for cleaning….What kind of bullets are you shooting? Is that it in your picture?

No here is a picture of them . I cast them in a RCBS 251X 50 mold . I do spray them with a light coat of dry molly lube as well . Gl .Marvin

MRM,

Cleaning of the barrels is something that is not often discussed around here. With most of my airguns (but I don’t shoot them as often as most guys here) I don’t touch the barrels until I see a drop in accuracy. I suppose there are far to many factors to come up with a general time frame for cleaning….What kind of bullets are you shooting? Is that it in your picture?

quote 80 GRIT:

Thanks Ced, I really think I am going to be getting one of those barrels. I will need to sell a few things and save some pennies first. Cutting off the choke would be a cheaper alternative… but I am not sure if I would be happy with losing (is it) 3″ off of the 24″ barrel. I wish I had 3″ more (don’t we all :D). I’m assuming the only reason accuracy increased when loosing the choke is because it allowed more FPS and better stability?

If so, I wonder what would happen if you are getting say 940 fps with the choke and a 24″ barrel, what would you get in fps if you lost 3″ of choked barrel (less barrel length, but less restriction on the slug)? Would it almost be negligible?

I have a choked barrel and shoot bullets with 8-10 bhn lead . No accuracy problems as long as I do my cleaning . The muzzle will lead faster than what most shooters realize . I shoot 120 shots a session . When I get home I clean the barrel . After about 3 sessions I run a bronze brush through the barrel a few times during the cleaning and accuracy never goes away . Marvin

Thanks Ced, I really think I am going to be getting one of those barrels. I will need to sell a few things and save some pennies first. Cutting off the choke would be a cheaper alternative… but I am not sure if I would be happy with losing (is it) 3″ off of the 24″ barrel. I wish I had 3″ more (don’t we all :D). I’m assuming the only reason accuracy increased when loosing the choke is because it allowed more FPS and better stability?

If so, I wonder what would happen if you are getting say 940 fps with the choke and a 24″ barrel, what would you get in fps if you lost 3″ of choked barrel (less barrel length, but less restriction on the slug)? Would it almost be negligible?

You really have thought out the barrel mounting part. One piece bushing and in-line mounting set screws intrigue me. Whole internal assembly is well thought out.

80G,

Mine was set up like that with Jerry’s slugs. They were making 140 fpe using the 7’s. They were into the low-medium 900’s. I simply cut the choke off my LW25 and the groups improved dramatically. So just listening to your new numbers, you should see an accuracy improvement for sure.

And as far as bullets go, just let me know when or even if you get a 257 barrel. I will send you PLENTY of samples so you will have a variety to test right off the bat. Then we can talk about future orders. Let’s see what the barrel likes first 😉

quote Tofazfou:

I have a talon bottle that i’m gonna have Doug remove and discard the talon valve stem and make another valve stem with internals to bigger dimensions than what i have now. I’m thinking a top hat with an internal dimension of .250″ (Bore diameter) and big snouts on the port holes on the valve stem. Right now the one i have is .217″ top hat internal dimension with 2 port holes at .170x.190″ ovaled. So MORE improvement to come.

I hear that. I asked doug to build mine with Jerry’s 7 rings in mind and an LW barrel. He said I will get 950 fps which I think will stabilize those slugs much better! The best I ever got with the 7 rings at 100 was around 2.5″. I am hoping to cut that in half with another 45 foot pounds to boot!

I am thinking about a barrel like yours as well. This way I can beg you to sell me some of those slugs 😀

Syn, yep, that 1-12 twist is just about on the verge of being GOOD for the 65 gr 223’s. But you are shooting them at 3000 fps which keeps em spinning pretty fast….lol! So yeah, to go up to 80-90 gr you for sure would need the 1-7 twisters for that heavy.

I actually wanna build a 223 AR to shoot ONLY heavy bullets. I just think 77-90 gr 223 would be damn cool to shoot. I don’t know why i think that but thats what i want……..lol

80G, yeah, light bullets do make sense. That 3000 psi fill pressure is seriously limiting. There are pros and cons to both sides though. High fill pressures DEFLATE SCBA tanks in a hurry. You also fill to high pressures but only get a few shots. But at high fill pressures……..YOU GET POWER! At 3000 psi, you conserve on air while still being able to make SOME useable hunting power (it doesn’t take much to kill). I haven’t tested the gun much past 5 shots to be honest as it’s not gonna be design to be a 15 shot+ gun. But there seems to be MORE room for speed and accuracy improvements with only 3000 psi. I have a talon bottle that i’m gonna have Doug remove and discard the talon valve stem and make another valve stem with internals to bigger dimensions than what i have now. I’m thinking a top hat with an internal dimension of .250″ (Bore diameter) and big snouts on the port holes on the valve stem. Right now the one i have is .217″ top hat internal dimension with 2 port holes at .170x.190″ ovaled. So MORE improvement to come.

OG…………YEAH, WHAT HE SAID….:lol:

Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 41 total)

1 2 3
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.