Bullets, bigbore, medbore, smallbore anyone?
Ok, obviously I am a newb here.
But I have been pouring over many of the various posts and I am absolutely fascinated with the great work of many talented enthusiasts that so generously share their talented experience and are so generous in documenting and discussing what I see as the cutting edge of recreational shooting sports of the future. Gentlemen, I want what you got and do what you do. I want to be a part of… I cant fake or pretend to having anything great or profound to contribute but I would like to start some discussion and postulate the following for your expert discussion and thoughts.
Bullets, slugs, casting lead, or boolits ive seen it referred. Big bore has been done in all forms from slug to roundball and even diablo conventional pellets. Cedrics videos which I love has helpped popularize long range, with Doug furthering the great works of those highly esteemed works of the previous masters like jack haley or even dennis quackenbush!
The casual observation has been the progression from .308 down to now is the .257 (“medbore”).
It seems that speed does play a large role as so eloquently someone else posted. Traditionally a major limit has been the physics of approaching mach speed and overcoming the poor ballistic coefficient of diablo pellets . Before the popularity of the .17 hmr, I had went through the trouble handloading the centrfire .17 rem cartridge for the Contender Pistol . Definately a trial in dexterity and vision seating that little pill on a necked down .223 case. I can imagine the pain casting tgesr things but wouldnt a .17 bullet of around 40 to 50 grns have a decent b.c. and good chance at being the hyper velocity rnd to consistiently achieve accuracy at mach speed?
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I edited my post for my web site. It is
http://www.accuratebigboreairgunammo.webs.com
Exactly my point! Who can pay attention to all that!? Now that baby just got a new car last night, we can get back to doing more of what we really want to do!
I am getting more prepared to get this 257 in motion. I am trying to decide upon what .257 bullet to build upon and determine whether to get a 1:10 or the 1:14 twist barrel. Too bad nobody seemed too intersted in experimenting with 1:12 and wanted to do a group buy on a mandrel for TJ’s to build custom .257…. I wish my budget wasnt so tight already, I’d consider it. I suppose its better that I am on a tight budget as it helps keep me focused in one direction!
I tried the link posted for RJ’s bullets but the link doesnt seem to work for me. I sent RJ a private message. :8:
Think that I am going to start a new thread…..
:rofl: WHO?
Ahhhh shucks if ya’d ask her she’d say she’s used to it…” If it aint one thing its another!!!! ”
I am very lucky to have a girl like her, and have her put up with as much as she does! And,,, I tell her that! Gotta let her know just how lucky I am! I always tell her just how much I appreciate that fact! Gotta love em and appreciate em!
Most times when I say this, she laughs and says how full of shit I am! She tells me if I really meant that,,,, then I would have already learned to use the clothes hamper! I would pay better attention and would remember what is was she was talking about,,, like that she told me about her niece getting married to that other guy, named Johnny. Ya know the guy she told me about that her brother fired. That kid worked at his wife’s thrift store. Told me about it last monday when whats his name got caught returning late from lunch after leaving with his cousins girlfriend,,,, the one ya know that had that calico cat that looked just like my old cat I had when I was a kid , the one with six extra toes…. well not actually six but one on each paw? ( ok I am in love but I am lazy! Who really pays attention to all that???? Beside she keeps moving the hamper and I was late today and didnt have time to pickup after myself!)
Not too many other chicks would let me overtake the livingroom with all my stuff like I do!
She has steadily learned and has gotten used to the importance and full priority of just how important something such as to tear apart a go kart motor on the dining room table at 3:00 am on a work night!
I’ve had some gals that made for a fine fashion accessory, like an expensive watch, sure made me look good and feel important too, but could never do anything I wanted to do without having to worry about mucking things up like scratching the watch or knocking a gear off a jewel….or being careful taking it off and if not careful to keep an eye on it, only to have it come up missing.
Then there was another gal that didnt mind hanging out in the shop and not afraid to get her hands dirty, could even bait her own hook, she liked to do alot of the same stuff I would do, sometimes did it much better, including other girls. Guys theres no competition, you can never win this battle of the sexes when your out-numbered. Careful fellows what ya wish for,, no fantasy island going on here and its too much work to stay on Top! I just couldnt hang and besides she couldnt cook….
Ya know I live a much more simple lifestyle,,, I dont base my selfworth on who I am fucking or how hot my companion is….. I am much more balanced and am comfortable in my own skin . I gotta a great ol….. I mean great young lady that is my freind partner and better half ,,, she puts up with me because she simply wants to,, I am with her because I like to be with her too. She is going to trip about the toxicity of lead and will worry for my health. I will continue to cast lead on the kitchen stove. Only after my usual “yes dear” and then I will do it when she is not home…. in her typical way she will pretend not to notice…. God I love that woman!
On a another note… if anything should happen to me and she has to sell off all my toys… I can only hope she sells my stuff for what it is really worth and not what I think that she thinks its worth. :rofl:
Man, your gonna be in all kinds of trouble when you get a .257. Between casting, testing and just plain playing with it, She’s lible to get a little tight around the ears. 😆
Knife
Hello guys,
Man ya know ya guys have been doing this for awhile now, as I have followed some of these threads backwards and some go back quite a few years. I cant say enough how fortunate it is to have so many and so much experience available to chat and draw upon for advice. I cant help but be enthusiastic about following what you guys are doing and getting myself setup and able to do what you guys are doing.
I had a moment to chat on the phone with Doug, his progress and work he has done is just incredible and his enthusiasm really gets me all the more motivated to get myself setup and to start shooting.
I intially had hoped to get on the list to purchase a DAQ .308 and had been waiting all summer for a spot to open. I entered his lottery in october to no avail.
Meanwhile, I figured that the Marauder .25 would make for a good starter and something to shoot until I found the best way to go for what I wanted to do… I purchased a .25 from a guy that doessome awesome custom gunstocks but have been waiting for the marauder to be finished and shipped since thanksgiving. I continued to lurk around everywhere and learned that the airforce was one of the more readily available platforms that could easily be made to output the power to shoot the solid lead like we want it to. So when I saw a deal too good to pass up on a Condor frame , I snatched it up, and here I have arrived at your doorstep. My Condor did include a .177 that had the bushings frozen up real good inside the frame making the barrel appear to be permanently married to the frame. My intention was to purchase this frame for a project platform and didnt concern myself with .177 too much to worry about it . I did acquire a spinlok tank and finally have had the chance to get shooting this last week. My first pcp experience, I just got the gun sighted in and zeroed out the full 62 yards length of my backyard. Shooting JSB exacts I have several 1/2″ 5 shot groups with that enemic .177 …. My budget BSA scope zeroed @ 62 yrds :rofl:
I have a total of maybe 35 shots fired . My first PcP experience,,,, I am fairly impressed so far with just this peepsqueek. Oh and after some heat and massaging I was able to liberate the barrel from the frame.
I wasnt able to continue much further as I had to consume myself with my sweetie for this past weekend due to the Valentines holiday and recent neglect while I am preoccupied on this forum and inside the workshop. So if any noticed my absence recently, I was being an attentive and good mate to my young lady. Enough to maintain some appearance of being properly whipped or PW’d At least for the moment! :2: :butkick:
Cant wait to get started on .257 project and all geared up to do some decent long range bullet delivery………maybe even plink a coke can @ 500yrds someday! 😀 rtf
Howdy Tedd! (Old Goat) The .257 bbl. you sent me is doing a damed fine job! I love it! Just as Cedric, (Tofazfou) suggested, it just gets better and better the more you shoot it. So far I have put close to 4ooo cast bullets down its bore. 😯 😆 In fact, about time to do a little casting.
I am haveing a bit of a problem trying to figure out how to pressure cast with the bottom pour pot as opposed to the ladle pour. I think I have found exactly WHY our bullets have been somewhat up and down in the weight. I am not getting the pressure needed with the bottom pour. But man does it put out the bullets!
Knife
Dyotat100 has a point–no free lunch anywhere!
Airforce is the affordable platform for power with the .257.
But then it’s not a Bullpup. Old goat has some good objectives in the post above and a lot of experience with lighter .257’s. All out power is not a factor.
Results awaited!
Though very often 247420 hollowpoints have been discussed- nothing much has been said about the depth and shape of the hollow point.
This could affect the desire to lose bullet weight considerably. More so if one does not intend to get rid of the boat tail base or part of it.
How would it perform if the depth of the hollow point traverses slightly more than half of the bullet length and with only a slight taper and rounding off at
the apex in an attempt to lose considerable weight??? The 257420 meplat measures 3.5 mm so the egde could be 0.5mm using a 2.5mm hollowpoint insert.
Just my thoughts!
Hi Mike!
This is just an oldgoat’s opinion but; the .257”Hart barrels have the rifling cut and the .257” TJs barrels are hammer forged.
Cut rifling and the sharp edges produce more drag than a hammer forged barrel does.
At least the cut barrels have done that in my findings; then again, I am a dumb ass oldgoat that might not have a clue.
I have noticed the same thing between my stock 25 cal R2.5 and R3s barrels and my BSA 25 cal (.243”) barrels that I have fitted to them.
The BSA (25 cal) barrels are actually .243”. There is more force required to seat a 25 cal JSB pellet in the BSA barrel than is required to seat one in the stock 25 cal LW barrel. DUH!
The BSA barrel needs a more tapered and polished lead in to get the same pellet seating force than the LW barrel needs. I am basically resizing the pellets as they are being pushed into the barrel. Once the BSA barrel has a proper lead in cut and polished, the pellets will just “snick” into the barrel.
When I get the lead in cut and polished, the .243” BSA barrels have less drag when I push a pellet thru the barrel.
I have found out that once I get the lead in right, the BSA barrels shoot a little better than the stock barrels.
I think that I am finding the same thing on my .257” barrels.
I currently have over $900 in Hart .257” barrels here. I don’t have any TJs .257” barrels here and I need to order a couple of them in 26 and 28” lengths.
I sent my only .257” TJ barrel to somebody: I can’t remember who I sent it to!
Tedd, what makes for the higher drag, or friction in the Hart Barrel?
Knife
Hi Doug. I have got my .257′ Hart barrel to shoot my 44 grain cast .257″ LBT bullets in the 850 fps range so far. I still need to open up the transfer port In the front breech block to match the OD of the transfer port in the 30 cal R3 air valve. I think that I will be able to shoot a 46-48 grain cut down HP 257420 and NOE bullet in the 880 fps range and get around 20-22 regulated shots per fill.
IIRC, I got 27 regulated 850 fps shots with the gun when I tried the 44 grain LBT bullets. I will lose some regulated shots by increasing the speed 30 fps and bullet weight by 3-5 grains. I hope to still get 20-22 regulated shots.
I might not get there with the Hart .257 barrels as they have more drag than the TJ .257″ barrel does. I’m not looking for a lot of power, long and heavy cast bullets or being able to shoot 500 yards.
I would be very happy with consistent 1/2″ 100 yard groups 1 1/2″ 200 yard groups. Very!
Oh right on thats what I am talking about!!!! Hell yeah , now where do I sign up?
Oh and RJ I have already been reading up on you! It all is very positive. I will be contacting you as I continue to proceed and make my final selection for barrel. I am leaning towards the one in ten from TJ’s ….. One more question with the liners….. For air rifle use you are jyst using them as barrel themselves and arent pressing them into or sleeving any other exsisting barrel. In the condor the frame kinda just shrouds it all on its own? Because its not seeing the kind of pressures that would be encountered within the chamber of a firearm its all good on its own? Pretty stout and not alot of flex from what it seems by how you guys are shooting.
And … oh yeah DUH…… I finally located the Dedicated .257 Reference Page by ToFazfou…..
Doh doh doh doh 😳
I am suprised nobody chased me off to do more research before asking so many questions, I did take note of RL’s services over there and I also noted that someone had mentioned the idea of a group buy to get the tooling for TJ to offer a 1-12 barrel. Nothing came of that huh?
Well I do have one slight setback today … just found out that we are going to be slowing down and outta work for at least the next two or three weeks! I already was trying to squeak all this shooting stuff past the Ol’ Lady….. but I gotta couple of other of my own jobs I am currently working on or soon to be rolling….. and ready to be paid on another, just a minor hiccup .. Baby just will have to get by with a little smaller down payment on that new car she is shopping and I will have to put the shooting out on front street! :rofl:
I will have to wait a few days or a week or so before callling TJs for that barrel, so that I can rathole more of that lunch money away! :rofl:
Doug,
1st, RJ is my buddy and I took my 1st “AIRGUN” coyote with his 257 HP Spitzer bullet at 100+- grs. RJ also actually suggested that I turn my Talon into a 257 condor shortly after he got the 1st and original Jack Haley “SCANDELOUS” 257 that won the Long Range shoot in Texas. Hence its name, “SCANDELOUS”. BUY HIS BULLETS. HIS ORIGINAL LYMAN 257’s were more accurate than my 257’s SLIGHTLY (cant give that fucker too much credit….lol). You can find him here: http://www.accuratebigboreairgunammo.com. With a 1-10 twist, you can shoot the longer and higher BC 100 gr or 80 gr bullets at decent speeds for 100+ yard shooting. My puny little LYMAN 257420 70 gr HP bullets will make it ALL THE WAY OUT TO 450 yards in only 1.7 SECONDS when launched at roughly 1010 FPS muzzle fps.
My future plans for video is too also shoot my 257 OUT TO 500 yards so I can officially join the 500 YARD SODA CAN CLUB…..lol. SERIOUSLY! The same for my new 7mm too.
Man, I feel as sexy as HOOT looks :hoot:
And Mike (knifemaker) is dead on. I set my gun up PURPOSELY. My 257 is sighted in for 75 yards and has a Simmons Mil Dot scope. About 4-5 MD’s IIRC! That gun is good for about 175 yards using all the dots and 200 using the lower post. My 7mm is sighted in for the same yardage and its good for OVER 215 yards using all the MRAD hash marks. My 257 shoots about 1010 fps with a .129 BC bullet and my 7mm shoots at 870 fps with a bullet that has a BC of .305. So one uses SPEED and BC to get there and the other uses BC strictly to achieve its trajectory. And yeah, I haven’t even began to push the 7mm….lol. SO far, I’ve seen over 905 fps with it new spring and a 3500 psi fill. If I fill to over 3800 or 4000 psi, you can expect so damned high or UPPER 900 FPS…..lol. You talking “FLAT FOR AN AIRGUN”……lol
Yep! RJ does a Fine Job!!! 😉
Knife
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Thank’s RJ!
Knife