Never shot so slow & so good before
I’m still a rooky so I don’t feel bad telling on myself. I’ve shot aronnd 2,000 rounds thru my Condor, many different pellets, a .22×24″, a .177×12″ barrel, while making many adjustments to the TopHat. I went thru 3 or 4 AF pumps while getting the necessary? 3,000 PSI Fill. And now I’m down to what the pros on this forum have been saying all along i.e. ‘to fast ain’t no good’.
For the first time I filled to ONLY 2,300 PSI. I’ve been working on trying to slow down my H&N BARACUDA MATCH .22 x 21.14 grain pellets to a max of 990 FPS. I’ve screwed the TH from 0.090″ down to 0.060″ and back up to 0.070″ all the while screwing with the Power Wheel too. The PW set below 3 1/2 just messed up the FPS consistency and much higher gets supersonic. So, I settled on 4 full turns of the PW. My PW zeros at 10 so 4 full turns to 10 is where it wants to be. From setting the TH up to 0.070″ and shooting a few strings of 40 to 60 shots, I found it drifted a bit to more like 0.072″. So, still not achieving my goal of max 990 FPS, I reset TH to about 0.067″, left the PW at 4 full turns, and ONLY FILLED TO 2,300 PSI. My scope is zeroed for 46′ & 100 yd. and has been accurate for the 46′ thru most of my adjustments. So I went right to the 50 yard range where I expect to be on target using the 3rd mil dot above the crosshairs. There’s good shade there for the Chrony.
So, if you’re still withme, here’s the meat (string):
SHOT/FPS/Approx.PSI
01/856.68/2300
02/970.02/2282
03/968.24/2264
04/965.30/2246
05/976.44/2228
06/964.00/2210
07/972.60/2192
08/983.66/2174
09/990.02/2156
10/980.00/2136
11/979.52/2121
12/988.16/2103
13/998.92/2085
14/992.37/2067
15/994.98/2049
16/1002.98/2031
17/1000.41/2013
18/1002.98/1995
19/998.18/1977
20/1005.14/1959
21/997.52/1941
22/997.77/1923
23/996.62/1905
24/991.80/1887
25/985.82/1869
26/990.18/1851
27/985.34/1833
28/976.12/1815
29/972.05/1797
30/971.81/1779
31/971.11/1762
32/968.70/1744
33/962.39/1726
34/958.35/1708
35/953.52/1690
36/947.40/1672
37/941.80/1654
38/940.04/1636
39/935.39/1618
40/928.79/1600
There are some nice flat groups in this string and I’d never before shot with less than 1800 PSI so I wasn’t surprised as the last 10 shots began to drop more quickly.
My reason for this long post is my surprise how much tighter the last 2 groups of 5 were. As usual it was windy with 15 mph wind gusting to 21 mph.
My last 5 shots were side by side at 50 yd in gusty wind.
My usual has been 2-3″ groups at this range
All Replies
Nice! 😎
Just to satisfy the curosity I ran the PW UP TO 9 & then 10 for some 33 grain EUN JINs. Running 847-885 FPS I got 3 in a row in the 9 ring of a 4″ target at 50 yards. That was better than I’m doing with the Baracudas but again it was WINDY & GUSTY.
Well. I wanted to be able to slow down the Baracudsa and still shoot heavier pellets.
Announcent:
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!
Yooo Hooo , victory.!!!! 😉
now change to a different weight of pellet and start over. 🙂
Just a thought , dont shoot me.
I will probably fine tune a little more but MY GOAL HAS BEEN ACHIEVED thanks to your suggestion of removing the Hammer Spacer and all of your patient guidance in re-tuning. Thank You Much!
My goal was to slow down the Baracuda Match 21.14 grain .22 cal. pellets to below 990 FPS. I gave up a longer string of 39 shots that started out around 965, peaked to 1,005, and finished at 928. But now I have a 31 shot string starting around 929 FPS, peaking around 981, and finishing around 921.
I’ve been lucky in the storms going just north of Lima, Ohio so I got out a lot more than usual. Now if the winds ever let up, I’ll work on better groups.
Thanks to everybody for your input and patients. I’ve learn a lot from all.
PS. I have 10 more turns of the Power Wheel to test this lighter hammer configuration on heavier pellets.
Yeah, I guessed it was a typo. Or I had lost the plot. 😆
Thanks for posting up all that valuable data, it has been very informative 😎 You put in alot of effort and dedication(and a fair few pellets!) to find the sweet spot. Hopefully it will pay off at the range. 😀
Pab, I mislabeled the 5/13 string #1 as 1 1/2 turns of the PW whereas is was actually 2 Full turns. I just edited it.
I will probably fine tune a little more but MY GOAL HAS BEEN ACHIEVED thanks to your suggestion of removing the Hammer Spacer and all of your patient guidance in re-tuning. Thank You Much!
My goal was to slow down the Baracuda Match 21.14 grain .22 cal. pellets to below 990 FPS. I gave up a longer string of 39 shots that started out around 965, peaked to 1,005, and finished at 928. But now I have a 31 shot string starting around 929 FPS, peaking around 981, and finishing around 921.
I’ve been lucky in the storms going just north of Lima, Ohio so I got out a lot more than usual. Now if the winds ever let up, I’ll work on better groups.
Thanks to everybody for your input and patients. I’ve learn a lot from all.
PS. I have 10 more turns of the Power Wheel to test this lighter hammer configuration on heavier pellets.
PowerWheel = 1 1/2 full turns from ‘0’.
Shot…………………….PW……………………………..
#…….PSI…….TH……Turns…..FPS…..Dev.from avg.
1……2,000….0.067…1 1/2….904.50……(47)
2……1,985….0.067…1 1/2….929.15……(23)
3……1,970….0.067…1 1/2….955.10……..3
4……1,955….0.067…1 1/2….934.38……(17)
5……1,941….0.067…1 1/2….961.93…….10
6……1,926….0.067…1 1/2….939.82……(12)
7……1,911….0.067…1 1/2….966.77…….15
8……1,896….0.067…1 1/2….973.22…….21
9……1,881….0.067…1 1/2….976.75…….25
10….1,866….0.067…1 1/2….976.99…….25
11….1,852….0.067…1 1/2….981.98…….30
12….1,837….0.067…1 1/2….977.78…….26
13….1,822….0.067…1 1/2….977.54…….26
14….1,807….0.067…1 1/2….979.76…….28
15….1,792….0.067…1 1/2….975.18…….23
16….1,777….0.067…1 1/2….972.99…….21
17….1,763….0.067…1 1/2….962.62…….11
18….1,748….0.067…1 1/2….966.00…….14
19….1,733….0.067…1 1/2….956.61……..5
20….1,718….0.067…1 1/2….959.11……..7
21….1,703….0.067…1 1/2….952.62……..1
22….1,688….0.067…1 1/2….952.69……..1
23….1,673….0.067…1 1/2….947.25…….(5)
24….1,659….0.067…1 1/2….944.66…….(7)
25….1,644….0.067…1 1/2….944.00…….(8)
26….1,629….0.067…1 1/2….939.82…….(12)
27….1,614….0.067…1 1/2….930.36…….(21)
28….1,599….0.067…1 1/2….934.74…….(17)
29….1,584….0.067…1 1/2….917.80…….(34)
30….1,570….0.067…1 1/2….928.08…….(24)
31….1,555….0.067…1 1/2….918.01…….(34)
32….1,540….0.067…1 1/2….921.16…….(31)
Standard Deviation = 21.6
Average Foot Pounds Energy = 43
Pab, what do you see in this data?
Should I try 1/2 or 1/4 ‘smidge’ adjustments? Which way?
Lurker, I think you may be all adjusted out! I can’t see what else to do to tighten that up. Its now shooting around the right speed, across plenty of shots, just not as tight as one would like.
Shots 3 to 26 is the meat of the string so 1950psi looks like the optimum fill pressure to get you straight in there.
Maybe a tiny less PW to try and flatten the intro shots, but I really do think you are there now.
Obvious thing to do now I guess would be to strip it all down, clean inside the frame, dry lube the hammer etc to try and gain a little more consistancy that way, but I kinda get the feeling that that is already done.. 😎 😆
Therein lies the difference between a Condor valve and a Blod valve. Blods can be tuned to shoot pretty flat across 20-30 shots, the Hiflow just not quite as good.
Shoot some 80yrd groups and see how she does. We want to see 4 groups of 5, all nice and tight please…. 😎 😆
With family business taken care of by 2PM, the beautiful overcast sky shown down on Lima, Ohio so off to the range.
1st, the 10 shot string that looked good yesterday looks great over 32 shots. The targets didn’t look so great because of 30 MPH cross wind gusts. But the DATA is what I was after.
5/13/2010 String #1 Modified Hammer, TopHat =0.067″
PowerWheel = 2 full turns from ‘0’.
Shot…………………….PW……………………………..
#…….PSI…….TH……Turns…..FPS…..Dev.from avg.
1……2,000….0.067…1 1/2….904.50……(47)
2……1,985….0.067…1 1/2….929.15……(23)
3……1,970….0.067…1 1/2….955.10……..3
4……1,955….0.067…1 1/2….934.38……(17)
5……1,941….0.067…1 1/2….961.93…….10
6……1,926….0.067…1 1/2….939.82……(12)
7……1,911….0.067…1 1/2….966.77…….15
8……1,896….0.067…1 1/2….973.22…….21
9……1,881….0.067…1 1/2….976.75…….25
10….1,866….0.067…1 1/2….976.99…….25
11….1,852….0.067…1 1/2….981.98…….30
12….1,837….0.067…1 1/2….977.78…….26
13….1,822….0.067…1 1/2….977.54…….26
14….1,807….0.067…1 1/2….979.76…….28
15….1,792….0.067…1 1/2….975.18…….23
16….1,777….0.067…1 1/2….972.99…….21
17….1,763….0.067…1 1/2….962.62…….11
18….1,748….0.067…1 1/2….966.00…….14
19….1,733….0.067…1 1/2….956.61……..5
20….1,718….0.067…1 1/2….959.11……..7
21….1,703….0.067…1 1/2….952.62……..1
22….1,688….0.067…1 1/2….952.69……..1
23….1,673….0.067…1 1/2….947.25…….(5)
24….1,659….0.067…1 1/2….944.66…….(7)
25….1,644….0.067…1 1/2….944.00…….(8)
26….1,629….0.067…1 1/2….939.82…….(12)
27….1,614….0.067…1 1/2….930.36…….(21)
28….1,599….0.067…1 1/2….934.74…….(17)
29….1,584….0.067…1 1/2….917.80…….(34)
30….1,570….0.067…1 1/2….928.08…….(24)
31….1,555….0.067…1 1/2….918.01…….(34)
32….1,540….0.067…1 1/2….921.16…….(31)
Standard Deviation = 21.6
Average Foot Pounds Energy = 43
5/13/2010 String #2 with TopHat = 0.070″
and PowerWheel = 1 full turn with modified Hammer
Shot…………………….PW……………..
#…….PSI…….TH……Turns…..FPS…..
1……2,000….0.070……1……817.35
2……1,985….0.070……1……820.06
3……1,970….0.070……1……812.68
4……1,955….0.070……1……884.09
5……1,940….0.070……1……837.77
This string starts out to slow and doesn’t
appear to be improving enough at the
fill PSI of 2,000.
So, I turned up the PW a ‘smidge’ to see
if it would be in the right ball park.
#……..PSI……TH……..PW……..FPS…
6……1,925…0.070…..1 1/2…..879.33
7……1,910…0.070…..1 1/2…..954.72
8……1,895…0.070…..1 1/2…..968.55
9……1,880…0.070…..1 1/2…..951.94
10….1,865…0.070…..1 1/2…..960.56
This looks better so I’ll do a short re-fill, only
about 40 strokes as opposed to about 120.
5/13/2010 String #3 Modified Hammer, TopHat =0.070″,
PowerWheel = 1 1/2 full turns from ‘0’.
Shot…………………….PW……………………………………..
#…….PSI…….TH……Turns…….FPS…….Dev.from avg.
1…..2,000….0.070…1 1/2…..910.21…….(40)
2…..1,984….0.070…1 1/2…..901.13…….(50)
3…..1,968….0.070…1 1/2…..928.36…….(22)
4…..1,952….0.070…1 1/2…..956.76………6
5…..1,936….0.070…1 1/2…..959.11………8
6…..1,920….0.070…1 1/2…..976.99……..26
7…..1,904….0.070…1 1/2…..958.35………8
8…..1,888….0.070…1 1/2…..980.55……..30
9…..1,873….0.070…1 1/2…..971.42……..21
10…1,857….0.070…1 1/2…..980.00……..29
11…1,841….0.070…1 1/2…..972.20……..22
12…1,825….0.070…1 1/2…..975.73……..25
13…1,809….0.070…1 1/2…..980.47……..30
14…1,793….0.070…1 1/2…..980.00……..29
15…1,777….0.070…1 1/2…..972.28……..22
16…1,761….0.070…1 1/2…..971.03……..20
17…1,745….0.070…1 1/2…..963.23……..13
18…1,729….0.070…1 1/2…..963.38……..13
19…1,713….0.070…1 1/2…..957.21………7
20…1,697….0.070…1 1/2…..956.15………6
21…1,681….0.070…1 1/2…..954.20………4
22…1,665….0.070…1 1/2…..947.47……..(3)
23…1,649….0.070…1 1/2…..947.25……..(3)
24…1,633….0.070…1 1/2…..943.93……..(7)
25…1,618….0.070…1 1/2…..943.49……..(7)
26…1,602….0.070…1 1/2…..935.68…….(15)
27…1,586….0.070…1 1/2…..935.68…….(15)
28…1,570….0.070…1 1/2…..925.38…….(25)
29…1,554….0.070…1 1/2…..924.39…….(26)
30…1,538….0.070…1 1/2…..918.57…….(32)
31…1,522….0.070…1 1/2…..915.37…….(35)
32…1,506….0.070…1 1/2…..914.68…….(36)
Standard Deviation = 23.6
Average Foot Pounds Energy = 42
Both strings 1 and 3 are very similar with the only difference in the TH setting from 0.067 to 0.070″. But String #1 started and finished a little better.
Pab, what do you see in this data?
Should I try 1/2 or 1/4 ‘smidge’ adjustments? Which way?
They sent us ash………. 🙄 😆
😆 😆 😆
You’re right again! The smidge adjustment is dialing it in. If a long string at the present setup looks good and isn’t too fast I might try a half a smidge more just to find the limit. After that I’ll still try the 0.070″ TH setting. It migh work with even less PW.
We’re in for in for some storms for a couple days. We’ll send you some to help clean the volcanic ash from your air.
I’m half Icelandic so I can’t laugh too much……
The Icelanders owe us millions. We said send us cash
They sent us ash………. 🙄 😆
Powderburner,
Thanks, I appreciate hearing how you vary your PSI according to the intended use. Thanks for confirming that dry firing doesn’t help seat the valve after a refill. Sometimes I wonder if it’s just me. But, I’ve been wrong once or twice in my lifetime so that wouldn’t be unheard of.
One thing I’ve found in this quest is that not only does to little PW cause low and erratic shots BUT, TO LOW OF TOPHAT can cause drastic erratic low FPS until the PSI gets low enough where the FPS AND DEVIATION can become very flat.
Hopefully the guy you referred to as ‘fucker!’ is an all A student and doesn’t try this stuff at home, without permission that is. Smart beyond his years?
Maw,
I may be getting these replies out of place so please forgive.
My purpose has been to slow down my 21.14 grain Baracuda’s to well below 990 FPS. I had shot a longer than usual string and when the FPS got down around 935+ my 50 yard group tightened up really great. My Condor was hard to slow down. Pab suggested to lighten the hammer and adjust the TopHat to 0.070″. In the process I had in mind to get the fill PSI down in the neighborhood of 2000 PSI in hopes of eventually getting a regulator. That seems to be the consensus of PSI for the e-tacReg.
These Baracudas are a little lite for my Condor .22 x 24″ barrel but have the best ballistic coefficient. Eun Jins din’t give me a good enough group at 100 yards. Knowing the Baracudas have the best BC I’ll have no excuses once I get the FPS right and of course No Wind. I intend to shoot a lot at 100 yards. Right now I’m using a shimmed scope and the 3rd mil dot above the crosshair at 50-55 yards.
Pab,
You’re right again! The smidge adjustment is dialing it in. If a long string at the present setup looks good and isn’t too fast I might try a half a smidge more just to find the limit. After that I’ll still try the 0.070″ TH setting. It migh work with even less PW.
We’re in for in for some storms for a couple days. We’ll send you some to help clean the volcanic ash from your air.
Lurker, that last 10 shot string is looking promising. Like you said, definitely need to get the full string on those settings.
Again, its hitting the sweet spot at about 1900. Need to see that last string in full to see if it will hang there for a while…..
I think what Pab is trying to say is if you turn your tp hat out some more you can increase the fill in tank some more and you will increase shot count, I have a good feeling that the NOW set up, has changed your sweet spot, it has really changed everything about your gun, you will be chasing the perfect setting for quite sometime, it may possibly shoot best at pw 3 and tp hat setting .o74, with 2400-2600 in the tank, you have seen some peoples strings they get around 40 shots fairly consistant, you are going to find out sooner or later, the best sweet spot, I have one gun in .20 cal and it shoots blessedly good for a long time, then on the other hand the .25 is so jacked up, shot count and consistancy is out the window, I just worry about what pellet I can use at a certain tank pressure.
Tuesday 5/11 String #1
Fill PSI=2000, TopHat=0.067″, PowerWheel shots 1-25=1
PowerWheel shots 26-32= 1 1/2 turns.
Shot….PSI…..TH…..PW…..FPS…….Dev.from avg.
1…….2,000…0.067…1…..906.53…..(16)
2…….1,982…0.067…1…..933.59……11
3…….1,964…0.067…1…..917.80…..(5)
4…….1,945…0.067…1…..938.73……16
5…….1,927…0.067…1…..955.02……32
6…….1,909…0.067…1…..961.55……39
7…….1,891…0.067…1…..945.99……23
8…….1,873…0.067…1…..954.12……31
9…….1,854…0.067…1…..966.54……44
10…..1,836…0.067…1…..973.69……51
11…..1,818…0.067…1…..974.79……52
12…..1,800…0.067…1…..668.78…..(254)
13…..1,781…0.067…1…..978.73……56
14…..1,763…0.067…1…..971.89……49
15…..1,745…0.067…1…..972.52……50
16…..1,727…0.067…1…..969.71……47
17…..1,709…0.067…1…..966.42……44
18…..1,690…0.067…1…..958.73……36
19…..1,672…0.067…1…..962.77……40
20…..1,654…0.067…1…..956.31……33
21…..1,636…0.067…1…..958.96……36
22…..1,618…0.067…1…..954.20……31
23…..1,599…0.067…1…..950.82……28
24…..1,581…0.067…1…..947.62……25
25…..1,563…0.067…1…..682.70…..(240)
26…..1,545…0.067…1.5…940.70…..18
27…..1,586…0.067…1.5…error………0
28…..1,570…0.067…1.5…error………0
29…..1,554…0.067…1.5…error………0
30…..1,538…0.067…1.5…677.99…..(130)
31…..1,522…0.067…1.5…error………0
32…..1,506…0.067…1.5…893.78……86
In the 1st 25 there were several very low FPSs so I
decided to raise the PW to 1 1/2 turns. I got errors
and a couple low FPSs but I thought it inconclusive
so I decided to reFill and try it.
Tuesday 5/11 String #2
Fill PSI=2000, TopHat=0.067″, PowerWheel =1 1/2 turns.
Shot….PSI……TH…….PW…..FPS…….Dev.from avg.
1…….2,000…0.067…1 1/2…..error……….0
2…….1,984…0.067…1 1/2….885.12…….183
3…….1,969…0.067…1 1/2….886.61…….185
4…….1,953…0.067…1 1/2….953.22…….251
5…….1,938…0.067…1 1/2….974.08…….272
6…….1,922…0.067…1 1/2….725.54……..23
7…….1,906…0.067…1 1/2…..error…….(702)
8…….1,891…0.067…1 1/2….964.30……262
9…….1,875…0.067…1 1/2….733.72…….32
10…..1,859…0.067…1 1/2….739.59…….38
11…..1,844…0.067…1 1/2….967.77…….266
12…..1,828…0.067…1 1/2….729.30…….27
13…..1,813…0.067…1 1/2….966.85…….265
14…..1,797…0.067…1 1/2….965.92…….264
15…..1,781…0.067…1 1/2….740.90…….39
16…..1,766…0.067…1 1/2…..error……..(702)
I was wrong, this setup didn’t look any better and had
holes in it.
So, like Pab said, turn up the PW a ‘smidge’.
Tuesday 5/11 String #3
Fill PSI=2000, TopHat=0.067″, PowerWheel = 2 turns.
Shot….PSI……TH…….PW……FPS…….Dev.from avg.
1…….2,000…0.067……2……928.58…….(24)
2…….1,983…0.067……2……935.18…….(17)
3…….1,966…0.067……2……948.51……..(4)
4…….1,949…0.067……2……942.60…….(10)
5…….1,932…0.067……2……945.40……..(7)
6…….1,915…0.067……2……961.70………9
7…….1,898…0.067……2……973.69……..21
8…….1,881…0.067……2……973.93……..21
9…….1,864…0.067……2……958.20………6
10…..1,847…0.067……2……956.53………4
I shot 5 and had to wait for the sun to go behind another
cloud a while later. Then I got off another 5 before the
sun came out and the sky looked like it would be clear
for the rest of the evening so I quit.
I want to run this string again to get a full 32 shots.
It looks like it may have topped out but I wouldn’t bet
on it until I see the figures.
I don’t know where to go with a TH setting of 0.070″.
Even if I get a good string at the present setting I think
it would be worth going to 0.070″ and trying a couple
Power Wheel settings.
Hi All, I made up a couple targets and went to the range in between the clouds. I got only partial data because of having to give up my shaded range. The juniors 22 group was arriving for their first meeting of the year.
Darn I left my targets at home but was doing great picking off pieces of broken clay pigeons on the backstop at 55 yards.
The 50/100/200 yard range wasn’t being used so I set up there. When the sun cameout between the clouds my Chrony would spit out ERROR and I tried but couldn’t get it shaded enough. I did get enough data to eliminate a couple of steps I wanted to try. I’ll post what I got in a short time.
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FollowUp:
I had trouble with the TH loosening because I wasn’t using the blue locktite while adjusting so yesterday I set it at 0.069″ (convenient using feeler gauges 0.022, 0.023, and 0.024″. After todays 30 shots I checked it and found it settled in at about 0.068″ I’ve been checking it after shooting and before screwing it up by attaching to the pump.
No Chrony today, just fun shooting at paper turkey’s at 100 YARDS. Darn winds at about 9 MPH SE while shooting W.
Condor .22 x 24″, Lightened Hammer (Arranged PW/Spacer-Hammer Weight/Spring/Hammer), TH = 0.068, PW = 2 full turns + 1, Filled to 1850 PSI, Ending PSI was about 1410, Range 100 yards, Scope 16X. I had chrono’d this setup at 50 yards with the first 5 shots varied a little but the rest of 32 where very flat with a steady slow drop in FPS. All shots were acceptable for POI at 50 yards. Avg. FPS 922 and Standard Deviation of 42.2.
So, here we go on the big boys 100 YARD RANGE:
As usual the 1st shot sounded very slow but surprisingly hit only 5″ below the average of the other 4 of the first group.
Winds and POI were both variable however I tweaked the crosshairs after shots 10, 15, 20, and 25. I had the range to myself and walked over 1/2 mile checking POI.
The final 2 groups of 5 were dropping 1 1/2′ lower but my final group was very great under the windy conditions.
Final 5 shots grouped under 2″.
4 of the last 5 grouped in 1 1/4″ at 100 yards.
Thanks everybody for your help. Now if you could all just line up and hold back the wind…..
😀 😎 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀