52 grain cast 25 acp bullets in the Condor
I got my mold and some bullets that a member was nice enough to cast for me to try.
When I first talked to him about giving me some bullets to try, he asked if I had slugged my bore, and I had not. So I ran two Kings that I had tapped on to expand them into the bore, one all the way thru to check the choke and one just part way into it to check the bore.
He was taken back by the measurements, the choke was .251 and the bore was .253. He thought that was odd that the LW barrels differed that much and having bought my digital calipers from Harbor Freight I just assume my calipers were off.
I figured when I got the two sample packages of bullets, about 10 each he was sending, I would measure them, then compare those measurements to my calipers.
One thing we did not count on was that the barrel was from the latest batch and may differ from past barrels.
Well when I measured the bullets I recieved today, I found my measurements were correct, and my measurements matched the bullets that he sent. .2495 and .2505. When I chambered the bullets, they slid into the barrel lead easily and went another .25 inch further.
I shot the .2505 bullets and did get one group that was .80, but had to fire 7 shots to get a 5 shot group that was .80. The .2495 bullets just sprayed at 36 yards.
Now I have a unusual shooting bench at my 36 yard range, it is off the top of a 1958 Mercedes in the garage and I use no bags, just my hands to rest on, so sometimes my groups suffer.
I then decided to try the mold and see if I could cast some bullets that would be larger, now I might add I had no way of sizing these bullets when I cast them, other than tweaking alloy or varying the heat, cold alloy usually reduces the bullet diameter.
So I cast some bullets up at 750 to 800 degrees. I started with 40-1 lead to tin because that was what was in my pot. I went thru the ones I could find that were in the .2545 to 255 range,these were too large, but I lubed them with break free and forced them gently into the lead with a flat side of a end wrench.
They shot 1.5 to 3 inches at 36 yards.
So then I reduced the heat to 700 degrees to try and make them a smaller diameter and cast some more, they came out at .253 to .254. THis is usually not a way to cast accurate bullets, but it does make them smaller.
I waited until they cooled, which with these tiny slugs does not take long, then I hand rubbed Johnsons Paste wax on them for lube, this is what I use on my .452 bullets I use in my 45 Ranger and it has stopped the leading problem I was having in that rifle.
The Johnson Paste Wax lubed bullets, that cast out to .253 to.254 could be pushed into the lead flush with considerable thumb pressure, but they were in fact working.
The first group I shot was around 1.5 inches, nothing special, but I did not expect them to group right away, it takes 5 or 6 bullets to get the wax into the barrel.
The next group put 4 shots into one hole and a 5th shot took it to .65. The group after that went into .65 also.
Velocity is 877 to 925, I fill to 3200 PSI, the PW is maxed out and I have a Condor spring, hammer and hammer weight, and a RLAirguns valve stem, Top hat is at .85 this gives me somewhere around 15 shots before I drop into the 860 FPS range.
I need to stress these are not good quality cast bullets that I am shooting right now. The mold is new, and there are a lot of wrinkles. I get 3 or 4 shots into one hole and then a flyer that I know is due to a mold not warmed to the right temperture and being new.
I have a lot of work to do on this and I need to have a sizer die made, it is looking like it needs to be .2525 to .253
Much thanks to the member here who cast me up some slugs and sent them off to me to try and also check my caliper, I owe you big time.
Regards,
Roachcreek
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Nice bullets RC. My buddy had good luck with those very same bullet in his Beaumont 25. He zapped a couple YOTES with them at over a ‘hunerd yards.
Marvin,
That sounds like a sound program.
I have the moly but need to order more alloy.
Regards,
Roachcreek
RC . I have no more leading in my condor now . 1 The harder alloy . 2 I use the molly dry lube on the bullets . 3 I clean the barrel after ever day at the range . And after I clean it I run a patch sprayed with dry slide through the barrel and let it set till the next use . I know every one has their own way but this works for me . Let us know when you get the sizer .Marvin
Secoda,
I always do the JB treatment on my new barrels.
I am seeing it on the choke but I don’t see the flaking deposits like you would in a pb barrel, I just get better accuracy when I clean out the gray steaks, when they come back it goes to hell again.
If this was the only bullet I was going to shoot in this gun, I would consider just removing the choke. I want to shoot Kings in it also and it loves them.
However the use these bullets will see once I get everything worked out, will be less than two or three shots per hunt.
I need to experiment with some different alloys also, and like I said size them and try some lube.
With the 25 acp bullets, it is not going to be used as a squirrel or birding rifle. That role will re reserved for the Kings.
Regards,
Roachcreek
Have you considered lapping or at least a little JB on the bore? Is it
mainly leading at the choke?
JVH – are getting some leading?
Secoda,
I am getting .25 edge to edge groups at 100 yards for one shot. 😛
Seriously, I get good groups then start getting eratic groups until I stop and clean the barrel of leading, then I get a few good groups until leading again.
I ordered two things yesterday, one a sizer die from Lee Prescision that is .253, I probably need .2535, but they do not go to half sizes and from what Marvin says they sometimes miss the mark completly, but that a person can open them up .0005 if needed.
Lee says the sizer die is 3 to 4 weeks out.
The other thing I ordered was some fine bronze wool to clean the leading out in a expedited manner.
I suspect I will need to lube the pellets with something else besides Johnsons Paste wax. I will proabably make up something with paraffin, Silcione oil, and maybe some beeswax or olive oil to fill the lube groove instead of just coating the bullet. I used to make my own lube when I did the BPC shooting, then decided on SPG and pan lubing, which I might do again.
Another thing I notice is the penetration of these things. I use an old Sorrel crossbow target, it will stop the Ranger 45 unless your shooting at 50 yards and getting inch groups and then it will blast thru the target. I wrapped that target stem to stern with duct tape and staple printing paper on it for targets.
The .25 acp bullets pass thru it quite often and I hear them bouncing off trees behind the target.
For 150.00 for tooling,plus the price of the mold, Lee will make a mold of your design. I would love to have a .253 60 grain version of my .452 Ranger bullet.
Regards,
Roachcreek
THose sure are purdy (even if they are a little oval). When you get them at 1/2″ at 50 yards I am sold.
PB,
You might have something there, I had been shooting without a bag, just off the top of the 58 Mercedes in the garage.
My Caldwell bag made it too high, so I put down a box I made for my scba bottles to stnad on and the stringing disappeared, that and setting the tophat out further.
Regards,
Roachcreek
Id deffently like to fire some of those with my set up. They would look cool flying sence they almost look loke there cromed. But really I hope u guys get these down id buy some just to try and see how my gun like them. I group the eunjins good now sence iv re worked my barrel from tip to tip.
that’s sweet, casting and shooting your own air bullets.
verticle stringing can be the gun rocking in the rest upon fireing. you guys are going to make me get a 25 yet. 😀
As far as the vertical string . Are you sure you are not getting hammer drag ? Marvin
I do not like the tightness of the mold either . I have casted about 2000 bullets through it and I really do not know if it has changed . I am going to clean and lube it today before I cast . If it does not loosen up by its self I might adjust the pins some . I have no problems with accuracy with this bullet . But it took me quite a while to get the proper size for my barrel . Marvin
Those are cool looking slugs Roachcreek, I hope you get what you are after with them. 😎
Marvin,
Amen to that!
I try to remember to tap my mold after closing, if I do not, I can see daylight between the halves. I have to tell you I do not like to hit a mold unless the mold halves are open and clear of one another, but it seems like I have no choice with this one
My bullets are indeed out of round, this latest batch, the ones in the picture are coming out 253/254.5.
I am able to get them ito the barrel with thumb pressure, but it is all I can do to do it.
I just increased my tophat from .085 to 1.0. I was getting verticle stringing and suspected the air was cutting off before the bullet left the barrel.
The next group was .55 as a result at 36 yards. I can live with that at 100 FPE, but wished I could say every group in the future will be that way.
Regards,
Roachcreek
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Tof,
Yes there is a lot of potential for that bullet.
Not something you want to shoot birds out of the tops of trees tho, they travel along ways and have considerable penetration.
I am going to order some Lyman #2 alloy from Rotometals and add a little pure lead to that to get close to Marvins BHN 12.
Imagine that bullet in a .25 Evanix if they ever come out with one.
Regards,
Roachcreek