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sounds rather foolish to me the whole idear 🙂
Voltar, what would be your procedure for determining whether a container
is dirty or clean? Would you be able to tell the difference?
I venture to say that you would not…
I am not the brightest bulb in the bunch but, it is clearly obvious
that if co2 is being dispensed from a dirty container, it is not
intentional….
So Voltar, how would you remedy the problem or ensure that the
co2 you were using is clean? You realize that “clean” is relative
right?. Again your post does nothing to help the member
asking for advice. If Archer has a warning about it,
why would you question a company with vast experience. You
didn’t question the HPA container companies when they advised scrapping a scratched bottle…
Who would ask a question like that? I am hoping it was Rhetorical,
otherwise the idea of asking that question is rather foolish : ) 😉
buy clean, use clean, keep it clean such a simple process
My experience with CO2 is as an industrial user….. cleaning switchgear
must be clean
experience with paintball having my own tanks…. clean never once and issue so must be buying from a reputable supplier no?
experience with airgun CO2 also use beverage grade CO2 and of course that is clean
So yes indeed my questioning the dirty CO2 springs from a foolish line of questioning just like the foolish comments I make about bottle safety and PCP building and overall airgun tweaking. You are correct I am being rather foolish.
Archer? who might that be?
walter….
Before this post started, very few of us had a clue that there may be
co2 that was considered to be dirty…Archer evidentally knows about it.
I am sure the guy though he was buying “clean” co2…Again, what
fool would buy dirty co2?…Are you saying everyone with a leaking AF
co2 adapter is a fool for buying dirty co2? Or are you telling Adam
that his claim that there is a possibilty that there is dirty co2 out there
is preposterous?
Industial experience doesn’t apply here….As with any other gas
there are different grades for different applications.. I would be my
last dollar that you can’t tell us what grade co2 you were using..As a 12yr
chemical inspector, I can tell you that there isn’t just one grade of
co2 or any other gas/liquid.
If the guy was shooting a paintball gun he may be able to use some
of your information and experience but, HE IS NOT SHOOTING PAINTBALL,
so that information is null and void also…..
His problem is specifically an AF co2 adapter valve leak and
I have yet to hear your opinion as to what he can do to remedy the
problem except “buy clean co2″… Give him your secret “clean
co2” suppliers name….
So instead of pointing out the obvious, give the guy a link to
beverage grade co2…Duhhh!…
The point is that, in several posts you have the nack of pointing
out the obvious negatives with no input as to what may and may
not be done to remedy the problems you are posting about….What
good does it do to post if it doesn’t help? The guy is trying to make
his gun work and getting nothing from you as far as possible
fixes….
Best I can understand from what you have posted is that the leaky valve
thing is all in thier mind and it is impossible for it to exist….
You may want to read some of what Archer has to say before you
show any more ignorance……You might just be wrong for once….
There is a first time for everything….
Yes you are.
But now you know why they put screens and filters in some Co2 guns.
Well perhaps up here we have a better supplier user relationship.
If welding supply houses had dirty gas and that could shut them down as industrial users would refuse to use such stuff.
So in fact I am ignorant of that very problem
Walt
Walter,
You seem to be lacking in experiencing working with CO2 provided by Daisy or Crosman for airguns.
I have cut open several Airsource containers as well as CO2 carts and have found many to be very dirty and full of crud.
Many people get their bulk CO2 bottles filled from welding supplies and have no idea what crud could be in those bottles only to have it passed on to them.
So while some my be foolish to use such CO2 others are ignorant as to the possibility of it happening and act surprise to hear it.
Archer Airguns
He deals with the QB family of chinese rifles. Maybe his warnings are just to cover his but on the chinese valves.[/quote]
His experience with repairs (no idea how much of that he does) may indicate dirty use of CO2 and if so likely from poor handling as opposed to the purchase of dirty CO2.
I would be betting that most of his repairs will actually be chips and shards left over from the assembly of the airguns rather than dirty CO2
Anyway, thanks for the clarification
[quote=”Voltar_1Archer? who might that be?[/quote]
Archer Airguns
He deals with the QB family of chinese rifles. Maybe his warnings are just to cover his but on the chinese valves.
sounds rather foolish to me the whole idear 🙂
Voltar, what would be your procedure for determining whether a container
is dirty or clean? Would you be able to tell the difference?
I venture to say that you would not…
I am not the brightest bulb in the bunch but, it is clearly obvious
that if co2 is being dispensed from a dirty container, it is not
intentional….
So Voltar, how would you remedy the problem or ensure that the
co2 you were using is clean? You realize that “clean” is relative
right?. Again your post does nothing to help the member
asking for advice. If Archer has a warning about it,
why would you question a company with vast experience. You
didn’t question the HPA container companies when they advised scrapping a scratched bottle…
Who would ask a question like that? I am hoping it was Rhetorical,
otherwise the idea of asking that question is rather foolish : ) 😉
buy clean, use clean, keep it clean such a simple process
My experience with CO2 is as an industrial user….. cleaning switchgear
must be clean
experience with paintball having my own tanks…. clean never once and issue so must be buying from a reputable supplier no?
experience with airgun CO2 also use beverage grade CO2 and of course that is clean
So yes indeed my questioning the dirty CO2 springs from a foolish line of questioning just like the foolish comments I make about bottle safety and PCP building and overall airgun tweaking. You are correct I am being rather foolish.
Archer? who might that be?
walter….
I use ‘ Food Grade’ CO2 in my line of work. CO2 used for welding is not food grade. This would lead one to believe that there is such a thing as ‘dirty’ CO2.
Now, as to how big the particulates in the ‘dirty’ CO2 are, I don’t know, but I can’t imagine they would be big enough to cause fouling in the adaptor…
If the CO2 is dispensed from a dirty container it becomes dirty.
sounds rather foolish to me the whole idear 🙂
Voltar, what would be your procedure for determining whether a container
is dirty or clean? Would you be able to tell the difference?
I venture to say that you would not…
I am not the brightest bulb in the bunch but, it is clearly obvious
that if co2 is being dispensed from a dirty container, it is not
intentional….
So Voltar, how would you remedy the problem or ensure that the
co2 you were using is clean? You realize that “clean” is relative
right?. Again your post does nothing to help the member
asking for advice. If Archer has a warning about it,
why would you question a company with vast experience. You
didn’t question the HPA container companies when they advised scrapping a scratched bottle…
Who would ask a question like that? I am hoping it was Rhetorical,
otherwise the idea of asking that question is rather foolish : ) 😉
I have no evidence of that so maybe I shouldn’t have written it. Repeating what I’ve heard but I can post a scan of the warning that come from Archer if you want.
Walter….
If the CO2 is dispensed from a dirty container it becomes dirty.
who would do that?
sounds rather foolish to me the whole idear 🙂
Walter….
If the CO2 is dispensed from a dirty container it becomes dirty.
There several CO2 guns out there whose resellers sell with big warnings to keep you work area and all parts involved ‘clean room clean’. Archer is one that notes this on documentation that comes with the rifles. Those warnings go on to say that the valve WILL leak otherwise – You have been warned.
CO2 is very ‘dirty’ compared to diver’s quality compressed air (what AF recommends). Given that we are using the same valve assembly that HPA users use, the ‘dirt’ from CO2 must overwhelm the AF valve assembly. AF will rebuild them for the price of the parts (so they told me) which is about $35 (add shipping both ways) but I’m thinking rust on the steel casing might be the culprit or part of it at least and replacing the valve parts won’t fix the rust problem (if it exists). No idea what the answer. Since I have 2 that leak and are out of warrenty, I’m going to open one up and look for rust etc…. Just haven’t gotten around to it.
CO2 is dirty? first I heard that as we used it in the last plant I worked at for cleaning high voltage switchgear and the large syncronous 4,000hp motors. 4160 Volts cannot tolerate ‘dirty’ and so we used CO2 for its cleanliness and no residue.
curious why anyone would think CO2 dirty????
Walter….
May help a little.
Have been using co2 adaptor for about 18 mo. Mine leaked on the first day I had it…in fact, the top hat and valve stem just came out of the valve.
Sent it back, they shipped a new one and I got a 2nd one in a trade deal.
The new one leaked after a few months. Having a spare, I just switched and decided to take apart the leaking one to see what was up.
OFf the rifle, not connected to a tank, i just tugged on the top hat and out came the top hat and stem. Took the valve apart as outlined a few posts up (basically took it apart from the back end).
Valve stem seems to be set in it’s delrin seal by press fitting. Stem is “kind of” knurled at the end to give it a bit, but the knurling is 1/2 assed. Made a steel rod to be a tight fit inisde the stem and used a small prick-punch to rase a few sharp “teeth” . Reset the stem in it’s seal by press fit. Evidently the little “teeth” do thair work, it’s stayed put.
The spare co2 adaptor started giving higher and higher speeds, until it just gushed co2 out like a jet at the shot. Took that one apart (again, from the back end) and found the retrun spring cap to have worked loose to the point that there was no spring tension on the valve stem. A little LockTite (purple…the non aggressive, reuseable type) cured that. that one’s valve seal sseems nicely attached to the stem, so no need for the teeth trick.
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Now, as to how big the particulates in the ‘dirty’ CO2 are, I don’t know, but I can’t imagine they would be big enough to cause fouling in the adaptor…
You cannot make the leap to ‘dirty CO2’ because it is not food grade. Food grade means fit for human consumption so no oils or gases toxic to humans. It can still be ‘clean’ and likely is very much so as the welding regulators cannot abide dirt, the welding process cannot tolerate dirty flux gas and so I am having one heck of a time believeing CO2 to be dirty enough to cause sealing issues in a Delrin valve seal.
So I don’t buy the dirty idea.
the leak is most likely due to poor valve plug finish, lack of concentricity or too low a valve spring pressure.
Walter….