Condor SS with NINJA PCP REG 2800psi output and 4500psi paintball tank
Hey Guys,
Looking for a little assistance here. I have been a Talon SS owner since about 2003, and the rifle is still going strong with probably 2500+ squirrel kills under its belt. I am extremely familiar with the Talon SS platform. I now want to step my game up for the coyotes who killed my pet as well as some of my neighbors’ animals. My plan is to buy a Condor SS and get it running on a standard 4500psi paintball tank achieving about 60 fpe and excellent accuracy using 28gr Eun Jins while getting gobs of shots per fill. I need some input about the feasibility of running a Condor SS on a 2800psi regulated output 4500psi paintball tank. (Please hold comments about hunting coyotes with an air rifle!!) :angrymob:
Ok so heres the plan (it’s rather simple):
1. Buy Airforce CO2 Adapter and swap out burst disk for plug or higher rated burst disk
2. Buy a Condor SS in .22
2. Talk to buddy at Ninja Paintball and get a 2800 psi output regulator and slap it on a 4500 psi paintball tank
3. Assemble regulator to tank, tank to CO2 adapter, then mount the whole deal to the gun
I would love to get some input on what challenges (if any) there will be with this setup. Is 2800psi output the best output? would something like 2600psi be better? Will the CO2 adapter use a Condor valve as it comes from the factory? My biggest concern is about the CO2 adapter valving – especially since I already impulsively ordered one! Any problems with this? I have heard the CO2 adapter uses a weaker spring and maybe some other parts? Please advise!
Anyway, I basically just want to run this idea by you guys to see if what you all think. Any thoughts, comments, or additional input on this setup would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
All Replies
Hey uummm, Godfather…. the regulator uuummmmm….well uuuummmmm…..shoots, YOU KNOW WHAT I”M GETTING AT!!!! lol
Simply awesome Doug
BS on what?
That thing is 20+ hours of machining on my lathe. It starts out as a 16 lb piece of 4″ 1144. Then put in my friends CNC mill for like 2 min to shape the drop down.
I have 2 of them, one on .257 and one on 338. The tank setup is 7lbs. They are both 21 cu chambers. 338 makes 360 fpe and can make more by shimming up the reg.
I have a new design with the reg built it to and will be adjustable. Just waiting for it to be drawn and machined. Has to be done on CNC mill.
That is the gun I won EBR with this year. I finished it the night before I left. First time for accuracy was 5 hours before I had to shoot. I’m still learning how to shoot it because of how much recoil it has. I can hit clay pigeons at 500 meters.
They are twins except for the barrels. Both guns weigh 22 lbs.
Holy shit doug im calling bs bro. After that pic i hav alot of questions. That little build looks bad ass dude. Main question is how much for the drop tank reged adaptor? That thing is beautiful.
Thanks guys. I’m pretty much taking a break for awhile. Have a few things to finish and then on to working on my truck.
This is my 338. It shoots 165 gr at 990 fps for 15 shots on 3200 reg setting. It was at 3100 psi but in the winter the cool weather slows them down so I just bumped the reg up 100 psi.
Next is a massive carbon shroud for it to control the recoil and sound.
Looks like your on the right path. A good reg setup is just like a woman, All about volume! Lol seriously though, more volume in the plenum means you can use less pressure.
Doug builds some of the baddest stuff out there. His guns are awesome.
Great job at documenting your progress with your experimentation.
Just a couple oc thoughts on this…….
First thought to just anyone contemplating such endeavors. IT CAN NEVER BE STRESSED ENOUGH THE POTENTIAL DANGERS OF WORKING WITH HPA!!!
That said, I am glad to read up on someone who has actually done this. You are right, many people have contemplated but it never seems to get much documentation. I believe RoachCreek had been down this road and had the best documentation that I have read. Back then the big discovery or question was what was different about the valve inside the Co2 adapter. If one was to use the Co2 assembly with HPA they likely experience tank dump.
As you have discovered, the limiting factor is air volume and not the airpressure. The higher the pressure in your supply tank the faster and more complete volume of air gets stuffed and resupplied for the regulator to have ready for the next shot hence the velocity output differences with supply pressure difference.
You will do very well by listening and enlisting the services of Dyotat, as he has been down this road before and has done the difficult part of figuring out just what needs to done to make it all work out right.
Engineering types with pocket protectors slide rules and scientific calculators have formulas and mathematics to predict and figure out the basics of what you need for what you want. Engineers usually have access to metallurgy data and standard accepted best practices when it comes down to working with such high stresses using high pressure air. However, there is a certain personlity type that this hobby and especially this particular air rifle attracts. It is those of us that love tinkering and experimenting and yankee backyard engineering! Ya gotta love the interest that brings so many great personalities together. I have made many great friends that share many same interests beyond airguns.
QUESTIONS….. So after all is said and done, how is your gun to shoot with all the hardware hanging off the back and the longer length of pull? The ergonomics? How about balance? Is there any concern that the additional stuff cause more frame stress or flex hanging off the back?
Additional thought….. I always thought that it would be so cool if one could do away with the rearward tank mounting configuration and place a more traditional stock of even a magpull AR style stock and have the gun connected to a tethered remote tank instead. such as a pony tank or buddy bottle mounted in a pack or something. The results of your experiment verifies what we kinda already know. that you need the immediate volume of air chambered and at the ready! Perhaps a prechamber buit into a hollow stock.
If ya can hire Doug’s services on this,,, I would jump at the chance! You are lucky indeed. His work on this rifle platform is legendary!
Just got done shooting the C-dor with newly modified tank setup. I got a 50+ FPS increase. Here are some numbers below:
Again, my reg is set at 2800psi. Pressures below are tank pressure. Power wheel at 6.1. This is not shot for shot. Was taking a lot of shots between chrony shots, but this gives you an idea of the performance increase due to the extra volume between drilling out the floor in the CO2 adapter plus adding the angled adapter.
PSI__________FPS__________PELLET
~3650_______873__________EJ 28.4gr
~3600_______875__________EJ 28.4gr
~3550_______976__________Kodiak 21.14gr
~3500_______867__________EJ 28.4gr
~3450_______868__________EJ 28.4gr
~3450_______968__________Kodiak 21.14gr
~3200_______968__________Kodiak 21.14gr
~2200_______783__________EJ 28.4g
~2100_______870__________Kodiak 21.14gr
So I’m done with this part of the project now and decently happy with the results. I have a regulated Condor SS that gets a lot of shots per fill with reasonable power – pretty much just like I wanted. Still, I do have the desire for more coyote-dropping power. Doug, if you’re reading this, I am very much looking forward to the reg chamber. 😀
Anyway, hope this thread is helpful to anyone looking to do a regulated paintball tank setup. I’m pretty happy with how the Airforce CO2 adapted/Ninja PCP reg combo turned out. The weird anomaly about this setup is that it seems as the tank pressure drops so does velocity, even before the tank dips below its output pressure of 2800. I don’t understand why. It seems like if its regulated to 2800 in the adapter then the velocity shouldn’t start dropping until tank pressure falls below 2800. My guess is that at higher tank pressure you get higher velocity due to the higher pressure behind the reg which rushes through the reg and “boosts” the exiting air during the dwell time that the valve is open. Make sense? Wiser minds are welcome to enlighten me on that one!
I will post more results once I have a reg chamber for a second regulated tank. 
Here’s the setup:
My .30 shoots 45 gr JSB’S at 900 fps on a 1600 psi reg setup. It has larger chamber then the .25.
Then my .257 make 200 fpe on a 3000 psi reg running off a 68 ci bottle. I get right around 25 shots with a 12-15 fps spread. If I stop at 15 shots it’s around 5 fps spread..
Please share your .25 set up.
Got to shooting the gun over the weekend with the current tank setup – which again is a 2800psi output Ninja regulator on a 45ci/4500 tank using the CO2 adapter and a Condor valve. I thought I’d jot down the chrony numbers and share em with you guys. This is shot for shot, but every so often I got the “ERR 1” code so there really was more shots than accounted for. The missing shots are why you sometimes see the tank pressure drop more between each line of data.
Power wheel was at 6.1 and I am shooting the 28gr flavor of Eun Jins in .22 cal out of a Condor SS. Here is the data:
TANK PRESSURE FPS
~3200 818
~3200 813
~3150 808
~3100 806
~3050 809
~3050 806
~3000 801
~3000 802
~2975 801
~2950 798
~2900 800
~2900 789
~2875 792
~2850 790
~2800 780
~2750 779
~2700 782
~2650 782
~2600 771
~2550 745
~2500 768
~2500 763
~2500 764
~2450 758
A switch to Kodiaks – 21.14gr at this pressure yielded this 3 shot string: 845, 842,847. I wish I had taken my very second shot with a Kodiak just to see how fast this setup can push them at full power. I’m guessing around 900-950??
Also, looking at the data, it seems like either my Ninja gauge is reading high OR that my reg is actually set to about 3K instead of 2800. The Ninja PCP regs are advertised as being set within +/- 100 psi of your chosen output, but in this case it seems higher. Could just be due to looking at a 4500 psi gauge which is obviously not exact and could easily be a hair off.
So I also went ahead and purchased the angled adapter off eBay that I mentioned in my rambling post above this one. It seems like its pretty damn good quality. The bluing on it (or melonite, phosphate, whatever it is) is really evenly applied and looks great. I was impressed. The dude also threw in a bunch of .257 hand cast bullets which will be nice for when I inevitably start playing with larger calibers.
Here is a picture of the addition to this setup. I have not shot this yet, and again the numbers above are not from this but from the same setup minus the angled adapter. Also I (just today) drilled out the CO2 adapter with about a half inch bit or so. You’d be surprised how thick the steel is on the “floor” that holds the pin-valve opening stud. Its about 1/3 of an inch or so. By my calculation drilling that out got me an additional ~2 cc’s of volume.
I’ll get some chrony numbers for the new setup next time I shoot. Kinda nervous about all that pressure being held by multiple separate parts, but it should be fine right? 🙄 Hoping to have an increase in FPS due to a tiny bit more volume between the angled adapter itself and the drilled out floor in the CO2 adapter.
Feel free to post up your thoughts as I’m beginning to feel like this is more of a personal journal than a thread on a FORUM!!!!! :biggrinn:
Update to anyone who might be viewing this thread – I spoke with Airforce regarding their CO2 adapter material, it is 12L14 steel, which is unsuitable for welding…. so there goes the idea of adding a chamber to the adapter. Good news is that it’s easily able to hold 3000psi from what I’ve read around the interwebz. Gotta hate the bit of fear always present when using modified high pressure shit right next to your head! (it’s still there)
Next options are:
Option A) shelve this project or use it on the Talon as-is and start a new adapter project for the C-dor. You shut up. I’ll abbreviate a one-syllable part of word with just its first letter all I want. 😯 Anyway…. this will involve having a custom reg chamber made to get the appropriate volume needed for the power I’m looking for. Sounds like that would be the shining path to getting what I originally wanted – a high power super high shot count bad-ass beast of a utility rifle.
Option B) fuck around with what I have a little more…you know…. just for funzies! haha. It’d be interesting to see how (read: if) just a small amount more volume could up the velocity. Still thinking about drilling out the “floor” in the adapter (that has the pin valve stud) to add just a teensy weensy bit more volume. Also, I saw some angled adapters available on eBay for like 80 bucks. Of course after posting this they’ll probably be sold out! :sadn: Anyway I figure it would add a few CC’s of volume to have that adapter on the existing rig and then I’d also have an angled tank for a more ergonomic shooting posture. Maybe I could use one of these on option A) too….. hmmm.. $$$$
Knowing me I’ll probably do both. What the hell. I have little restraint when it comes to shit that I deem “awesome”.
I’ll keep y’all posted on any more progress in case it helps with your endeavors or you’d like to do a similar setup.
Actually, further back so I don’t have to cut the frame would be best. Nothing drawn to scale:
PM’d. Also I found this thread:
http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28397
I’d like to think this can easily be done with the steel AF CO2 adapter as well. I definitely would like to get a chamber installed if you’ll do it. Something like this:
What are your thoughts?
Pm me your email
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That thing is 20+ hours of machining on my lathe. It starts out as a 16 lb piece of 4″ 1144. Then put in my friends CNC mill for like 2 min to shape the drop down.
I have 2 of them, one on .257 and one on 338. The tank setup is 7lbs. They are both 21 cu chambers. 338 makes 360 fpe and can make more by shimming up the reg.
I have a new design with the reg built it to and will be adjustable. Just waiting for it to be drawn and machined. Has to be done on CNC mill.
That is the gun I won EBR with this year. I finished it the night before I left. First time for accuracy was 5 hours before I had to shoot. I’m still learning how to shoot it because of how much recoil it has. I can hit clay pigeons at 500 meters.
They are twins except for the barrels. Both guns weigh 22 lbs.
Doug knows his shit. I just want his super quiet .308 and I’d be very happy.
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