Condor SS with NINJA PCP REG 2800psi output and 4500psi paintball tank
Hey Guys,
Looking for a little assistance here. I have been a Talon SS owner since about 2003, and the rifle is still going strong with probably 2500+ squirrel kills under its belt. I am extremely familiar with the Talon SS platform. I now want to step my game up for the coyotes who killed my pet as well as some of my neighbors’ animals. My plan is to buy a Condor SS and get it running on a standard 4500psi paintball tank achieving about 60 fpe and excellent accuracy using 28gr Eun Jins while getting gobs of shots per fill. I need some input about the feasibility of running a Condor SS on a 2800psi regulated output 4500psi paintball tank. (Please hold comments about hunting coyotes with an air rifle!!) :angrymob:
Ok so heres the plan (it’s rather simple):
1. Buy Airforce CO2 Adapter and swap out burst disk for plug or higher rated burst disk
2. Buy a Condor SS in .22
2. Talk to buddy at Ninja Paintball and get a 2800 psi output regulator and slap it on a 4500 psi paintball tank
3. Assemble regulator to tank, tank to CO2 adapter, then mount the whole deal to the gun
I would love to get some input on what challenges (if any) there will be with this setup. Is 2800psi output the best output? would something like 2600psi be better? Will the CO2 adapter use a Condor valve as it comes from the factory? My biggest concern is about the CO2 adapter valving – especially since I already impulsively ordered one! Any problems with this? I have heard the CO2 adapter uses a weaker spring and maybe some other parts? Please advise!
Anyway, I basically just want to run this idea by you guys to see if what you all think. Any thoughts, comments, or additional input on this setup would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
All Replies
Reg does not deliver air fast enough. You have to have the air sitting there to be used and the reg will refill it. Doesn’t matter the size of that hole because the hole feeding the reg is even smaller.
Chamber volume is where it’s at.
Ok so here is a shot of the Condor SS with the tank setup I built:
The highest I could get with 28gr Eun Jins was about 820 fps on the Ninja reg/CO2 adapter setup while the stock tank was easily capable of shooting the EJs at over 1000 fps when the PW was cranked up. I think Dyotat is right about volume. No matter where the PW was set I just couldn’t get it up past 820 despite the 2800 psi output at the reg. I just don’t think it’s dumping enough volume down the barrel. I have an idea how to fix/help this. Peep my super sophisticated SolidWorks Pro drawing below:
Let me know what you guys think about drilling the CO2 adapter out so that there is no more CO2 pin valve opener. I’m using an open valved reg so don’t need it anyway unless I ever want to actually use a normal CO2 or HPA tank. With it drilled out the CO2 adapter would basically be a hollow tube with no restriction from the reg to the Hi-Flo valve.
…………………………….
Anyway I’m super impressed with the Condor SS. Extremely accurate at 50 yards and with so much power! I think it’s quieter than my Talon SS. Got my first kill with it today at about 20 yards. The Eun Jin hit this guy and he did a pretty respectable number of backflips off the firepit before landing a few feet away, defeated.
My .25 is running on 1800 psi and shoots JSB 25.4 gr in the 940’s. It’s all about having a reg chamber.
My .30 shoots 45 gr JSB’S at 900 fps on a 1600 psi reg setup. It has larger chamber then the .25.
Then my .257 make 200 fpe on a 3000 psi reg running off a 68 ci bottle. I get right around 25 shots with a 12-15 fps spread. If I stop at 15 shots it’s around 5 fps spread..
damn P.O.S internet service just made me lose a well thought out lengthy post but to summarize…
I’d never over pressurize a burst disk’s rating and not expect it to do what it is designed to do. Just plug it. Use teflon tape on a 3/8-24 threaded plug and toque it down hard.
Anyone know of a very small 3000psi gauge that is 3/8-24 threaded? Or I was thinking of maybe just getting a 3/8-24 to 1/8npt adapter so I could use a standard 3k gauge in the burst disk slot.
Anyway, to push a heavy .25 at 900 fps I would think you would want higher output pressure than 2.2K. I chose 2800 and will report back tomorrow. I will be using 28gr Eun Jins… and I have a chrony.
Got the ball valve outta the Ninja reg and replaced the burst disk on the Condor valve with a stainless steel plug and some teflon tape.Also replaced the brass valve seat and spring in the CO2 adapter valve with actual Condor parts that Airforce said we’re “slightly different” than what comes in the CO2 valve. They looked identical, but I didn’t mic them so who knows…
-To get the ball out of the Ninja reg, loosen the 5K burst disk (top one). This will exhaust the air trapped in the reg that was put there at the Ninja factory for testing. Without relieving that pressure, it will be impossible to get the bonnet off and the ball outta there!
The parts are now all together and holding tight at 2500 PSI. I pumped it with the hand pump but didn’t want to go to 4k (or higher) in case something happens overnight and I lose all my hard earned air.
My attempt at posting a photo of the tank setup from photobucket is below:
This is close to what I am trying to do, use the co2 adaptor, see if the burst disk can hold up, or take an idea from you and just plug it and let the burst disk on the low end of the reg handle that part. I will be following your progress. Please let me know how the gun is to shoot with that large bottle.
Thanks,
Roger
P.S.
I was planning on using the stock valve on the co2 tank, anyone see a problem i might encounter by doing that?
I am planning on converting a talon SS to a 24″ .25 Barrel regged at 2k – 2.2k to push jsb .25 just at or above 900 FPS
I don’t want ti hijack this thread, so if anyone has input specific to what I am trying to do could you throw it over here
http://www.talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=34800&p=358903#p358903
Thanks
Roger
Update:
Got the ball valve outta the Ninja reg and replaced the burst disk on the Condor valve with a stainless steel plug and some teflon tape.Also replaced the brass valve seat and spring in the CO2 adapter valve with actual Condor parts that Airforce said we’re “slightly different” than what comes in the CO2 valve. They looked identical, but I didn’t mic them so who knows…
-To get the ball out of the Ninja reg, loosen the 5K burst disk (top one). This will exhaust the air trapped in the reg that was put there at the Ninja factory for testing. Or you can simply stick something down there to press the ball valve but I didn’t want to risk damaging the ball with a metal tool so I just loosened the 5k a bit. Without relieving that pressure, it will be impossible to get the bonnet off and the ball outta there!
The parts are now all together and holding tight at 2500 PSI. I pumped it with the hand pump but didn’t want to go to 4k (or higher) in case something happens overnight and I lose all my hard earned air.
My attempt at posting a photo of the tank setup from photobucket is below:
Just a quick update:
I received the Condor SS and the Ninja PCP regulator today. Hell yeah. Anyway, to my dismay I looked at the PCP reg and it had a ball valve recessed inside the bonnet rather than a pin valve as you typically see on paintball tanks. The Airforce CO2 adapter that I will use for this project has a standard ASA (which presses the pin valve on the tank with a pin of its own) just like any paintball marker. Kinda admittedly tweaking out maybe a little about this not working as planned, I talked to Ray at Ninja. He answered my message instantly and advised I could remove the ball from the reg and have it essentially be constant air AKA completely open.
This will work for the Airforce CO2 adapter since it’s business end carries a standard Condor valve (spare a few tiny parts) WHICH (kind of obviously) HOLDS AIR!! I think this is all going to work out pretty nicely once I get my replacement CO2 adapter – first one looked like it had been dropped on the valve so the distributor is replacing it.
Other than swapping out a burst disk I think everything is in order. I do have one more question for you guys: What threading are the burst disk holes on the Airforce CO2 adapter?
Ordered the .22 Condor SS. My Talon SS is in .22 so it made sense not to have to order 2 different caliber pellets for the marginal gains seen with .25 over .22.
With a 4500 PSI fill regulated at 2800 PSI to the gun, I am hoping to get around 100 shots or more at like 50fpe before the pressure in the tank dips to below 2800. To me this would be the ultimate in regulated accuracy, power, and almost cheat-code like shot count per fill.
Ideally I want to be able to have this gun in the field for extremely extended shooting sessions, camping, and week long hunts without lugging the pump around.
How many shots do you want? If you’re getting a new gun I’d seriously look at a 25 caliber. My standard condor with the quick change top hat shoots 33 grain pellets at 900 fps for about 10psi per shot. Plenty for hunting and not terrible for target shooting, even with a hand pump. Terminal performance on small game is excellent with that big pellet.
Just for the record, Rachel at Airforce told me that the brass valve insert in the CO2 adapter is different than the standard Condor Hi-Flo valve but that the Condor insert would fit the CO2 valve – so I ordered it.
Were you just using the standard Condor valve on top of the 2300psi output reg? And it worked fine? Looks like the JDS adapter has a little volume where as the Airforce CO2 adapter doesn’t really.
I was thinking I’d probably have to open up the input air hole inside the CO2 adapter’s tank input (next to the pin that pushes the tank’s pin-valve open when its screwed in) to get a higher volume of air. Maybe drilling a few more holes inside the adapter would be a good idea to get the best volume? I wonder if the needed volume of air can even come through the Ninja reg itself….
Since I’m not getting a ton of response here, spare onebaddj’s input (thanks!), I guess I will just have to try it and let y’all know how it goes….
Nice! Sponsored to play paint ball thats badass. I completely get the brand loyalty, i have a Calcutta skull and cros bones tatted right in the bread basket above my heart. Thats stung a little.
I suggested jds bacause i have no experiance with the ninja ones. May have to look into them if they are consistant enough to handle 20 shots a second, that is nuts. I usually just count to 5 after i load to make sure mine is good. Never tried to fire my condor that fast. Would probably loose a finger. Lol
2800 psi should do the trick i was running 2300 and getting up to 40 fpe with the small chamber in the jds adapter. All about volume! If you dont have volume increase the pressure, but then you loose shot count. I learned a ton from people here and over on the gta when i started tinkering with regs.
Good luck and keep us posted on your findings.
I have looked at the JDSAirman stuff, looks pretty nice, but not what I am looking to use here. I was at one time sponsored by Ninja Paintball and I know I can still get a good deal on their PCP reg from them. Not only is the good deal important to me, but Ninja regulators are some of the best and most consistent I have ever used, even up to 20 balls/second in paintball they are super consistent – plus I am a very brand-loyal consumer. Just check my Airforce tattoo for proof! 🙂 (Yes, I actually do have the Airforce eagle tatted down my outer forearm)
Anyway…. Using the CO2 adapter, Ninja PCP reg, and 4500 tank – I know all these parts will fit together and that’s what I am going to use.
So all in all – Seem feasible? I’m worried about being able to dump the necessary volume of air through the CO2 adapter and also want to know if anyone sees any other hurdles with this setup. Also want to know the best output pressure for the tank reg. I find my Talon shoots best at like 2800 PSI so I figured it would be similar with the Condor….
The co2 adapter is a standard valve with a 1800 psi burst disc. That would have to be changed to a higher level one.
For the regulator part jds sells very nice regs. Seems like it would be pretty simple to give him a call and see if all the threads would match up to run a 4500 psi paint ball tank. I think it is completely possible to get the power your looking for a alot of regulated shots per fill with a tank that size and pressure being regd down.
But thats where i would start, jdsairman.com and give them a call.
I think the first concern to iron out is whether or not the Airforce CO2 adapter will handle an input pressure of up to 2800 PSI.
Thoughts?
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Yeah, that was my main concern here. Volume. You are absolutely right – reg chamber is where its at. I bet if I drill out that material it may add a little gain here for me (25 fps too much to hope for?), but definitely not enough volume still to acheive 900-1000 fps. At this point I wish I ordered my reg with the 3k output instead of 2800 to get a little more zing out of her.
Still, I think shooting 28 grainers at 43 FPE aint bad. I can probably shoot Kodiaks at like 875-900 fps with it, perfect for squirrel hunting, but I want raw power.
Dyotat can you post a pic or two of these large chamber reg’d rifles? And do you make and or sell this dump chamber setup? 🙂 🙂 🙂