Damn Chinese raw extrusion!!
👿 Okay, back story for those that don’t know about these evil, idea inducing extrusions:
China put out these AF- like extrusions… they look good, as near to exact copies of them, but the I.D. is off… at the top, it’s egg shaped. I wouldn’t have noticed it but for Doug’s work with one. Well, like an ass, I have two. A short length (Talon sized) and a longer length (30+ inches). Of course they’re out of round too. I checked mine with the blast baffle of the Sound Loc kit. The rest of the tube is fine, but for that slight egg shape on top… well fuck 👿 . So, after many nights of thinking of how to fix it (or toss them), this idea pops into my head:
I’ve been looking at glass bedding recently, and got to thinking: get a rod, machine the O.D. to make sure it’s good and straight, and the size and length I need, and use a good bedding compound to fill the gap at the top of the I.D. of the tube… wait for the epoxie to dry, and voila my tube is round again, and if I can find a good enough epoxie, it can be machined w/o the fear of chipping… I wanted to run this by you guys to see if it’s completely crazy or what…
I really don’t want to scrap these extrusions, not so much because of the cost.. I’ve got less than half of what a single AF frame costs into two of them so far… But other than this little flaw (that hopefully gets fixed at the factory) they’re a great basis for a .257 or bigger build… machine the frame how you like, and it’s uber stiff… My idea is for the extrusion is this:
Right side feed only
Side cocker (of course)
M1913 rail on top, as low as I can go w/a 20 (25?) MOA angle built in, running the length of the frame (but does not extend onto the shroud).
Leave most of the lower rail in place to further stiffen the frame, and to mount a better looking fore grip (pretty much looks like the one from an EBR though made
for this rifle), and a short length of M1913 for a bipod
A WOKGard15… Gotta have some of Adam’s work on this thing too!!
I really don’t want to give up on this idea!!!!!
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You’re definately right, the weakest point of the frame would still be where the tank meets the frame, however since this frame will eventually be right feed only, it will present less of a problem than a stock frame would. Hence why AF should offer just extrusions w/the trigger holes drilled and the power wheel slots cut out… But, I digress.
Hmmm, to which .30 barrel are you referring? I have too many projects (this may be an issue!!) I have a 12″ .30 TJ barrel for AF guns, I have a 18″ TJ .30 going into a custom Dawson Rapid action, Tony at Talon Tunes is starting to wrap up his .30 conversion, and I’m really interested in that! Tony’s .30 conversion is really why I’m wanting to finish this frame so bad… The extrusion I have is 31.5″ long, which is over 2″ longer than a condor SS frame. I could have a 20″ barrel, a few Sound loc baffles, and one of Tony’s shrouds… All in a custom frame.
I know that Tony does great work, and nothing leaves his shop w/o being tested by him to ensure everything works as designed. The only thing I wonder about is that LW barrel he’s using. I wonder if the TJ barrel would be better suited? I think I’ll look into this… “Is a LW .30 or a TJ .30 barrel more accurate?” Damn it if I didn’t just add something else to my list of things to do… 🙄
The thing about going with sleeving is it will likely give you added rigidity to your frame, although from your description, it is going to be pretty rigid. Your weakest point will be where the tank and frame join.
Supposedly AirForce is working on a bit of innovation. Back in 2012 I had a lengthy conversation with John McCaslin (Mr. AirForce himself) concerning manufacturing, production, engineering, etc. During that conversation he told me of the upcoming release of the new trigger assemblies and the Condor SS. Also during that conversation he told me of a big bore they are working on. It will have a new frame design, as many here know the present frame has been pretty much stretched to the limit. It will be released in .50, but you will be able to swap barrels as in the present offerings.
I was hoping it would be in production this year, but apparently things were not ready, so they dragged that Ton guy in and threw together the Escape series so they would have something “new” this year for the Shot Show. I can well imagine those booth spaces are quite expensive. To paraphrase the Hoot, “I am underwhelmed”.
However to be fair, most here have no knowledge and experience in manufacturing. Even the slightest change in a product requires a production line to stop in order to incorporate that change. Perhaps you may have wondered why the “old” triggered frames became scarce just before the release of the new ones? You have to stop production and retool for such. AirForce had to set up an entire new production line for the Condor SS because the equipment they had could not handle that long of an extrusion.
I wander, forgive me. Go for it. Maybe in a few years you will see a similar frame offered by AirForce.
By the way, did you ever find your .30 barrel? Perhaps we can enter into a discussion concerning this.
True… but I’m a glutton for punishment, and I refuse to give up on the extrusion… I need to make it work. I want Airforce to see what they COULD have… I’m not saying efforts of people to create a different main body is a bad idea, nor the people who modify the AF main bodies… Doug does amazing work! AF needs to see their extrusion’s potential. Hopefully it’ll make them start innovating again, instead of doing mix-matches of current products… I mean, c’mon… The Escape?! Really?!
Yeah, I’m probably in for a pretty pricey main body… but It will have everything I want, and it’s one piece- not a tube with parts attached to it. A solid piece. I mean, think about it:
Monolithic M1913 rail w/25 moa slant to it, dropped a bit lower for a better cheek weld
right (or left) side feed only- added strength right there
side cocking (left or right)
All while still retaining all the available modifications, and upgrades that are currently available.
I’ve been thinking on it some more, and I’m going to go w/your idea Edge… I’m just going to sleeve it. This would be far easier (thaat’s a misnomer!) than my idea.
Is it all really worth what it is going to cost? Unless you just HAVE to do it, it is not going to be worth it. For all of the time and money you are about to drop in that, you could take a block of aluminum and have a new whatever machined.
Okay, after some digging (it’s been a bit, summer semester college sucks!), I’ve decided that IF there is a chance this idea will work, that Devcon 10110 will be the epoxy that I will use… I’m sorry to admit, I’ll probably have a gunsmith do this, since he’s much more knowledgeable about bedding, Devcon and anything else involved… So… Thoughts? I really don’t want to machine the bore larger and insert a sleeve… Will my idea of machining a rod (or tube…) down to the needed size to fit inside the extrusion tightly, then slather the egg-shaped part of the extrusion with Devcon work? It would fill the egg shaped void and create the straight bore I need for all the AF guts… I’m really hoping the idea works… I’m probably going to try it anyway, but I wanted to see what you guys thought… Of course, if the gunsmith or a machinist says the sleeve idea is better… I may just do that. Really don’t know what to do.
It could work. There are some metal filled epoxies that can be machined. Grainger sells some that is used to repair scratches and such on hydraulic pistons. However, unless you just have to tinker with them and have your own machine shop, the cost of doing this is very prohibitive. Have you considered inserting a sleeve? If you are making all of the components, they can be made to whatever diameter you make it. Maybe rebore the hole round? Maybe do both? Bore it out round and insert a sleeve that fits.
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Not to sure on the .30 LW which slugs at .305″. I didn’t get to test the one I had. I know that the head of a .30 pellet is .29990″ on the ones I checked.
The TJ barrel is a .300″ barrel. I know a guy that has one on his Evanix and it shoots under a 1″ at 100 yds. I have one in my build also but I haven’t had time to put it back together since I modified the frame.