Fuck ME!
A tank-dump at 2000psi, that was fun. The silencer and chrony did 1044fps. And survived. 😆
So, I’m pretty sure the various seal configurations had been leaking, but I got to a point where I thought no way jose anymore. So it had to be the two holes I’d mistakenly drilled and sealed with brass bungs. I wrapped insulation-tape around those areas and no more leak. Hurrah!
In with Sean’s spring, got 945fps at 1500psi, but only 700 at 2000psi. Made a longer tophat but still no go. Put an extra spacer in, the difference of which was immediately noticeable when I cocked the rifle. I guess I should have put the shorter tophat back in at that point (the longer one has a full 10mm travel). BANG WHOOSH! 😆
So, fingers crossed that with the shorter tophat in I’ll finally be there. At least at 2000psi, not sure what’ll happen at 2500 and 3000. An extra inlet-port might be a good idea, more flow-through for the same tophat-travel.
All Replies
I’ve come across the same kind of BS many times and places before. There’s always a bunch of arseholes who are sooo up themselves, who think they know everything so much better than anyone else, who are incapable of giving advice open-mindedly and letting the recipient take it or leave it as he pleases, who expect the recipient to fawn and grovel and defer and pander to their sad-sack egos. And this place has been no different. No clique you say? Oh puh-LEESE. If there wasn’t this would be the first fucking forum in history without one!!! There’s the usual clique, the hard-core group of smug habituals, with their follower-ons, holding court and basking in the light of their own imagined superiority. Don’t talk to me about “far over-inflated sense of worth” mate, you’re not talking to some been-nowhere, seen-nothing idiot. I know exactly what the coup is here. And I’m fine with it. Just don’t expect me to sit back, roll over and take it without comment. I like a good laugh too, a bit of entertainment, and I’m quite capable of putting the boot on MY foot. Apparently. 😆
I think that this posts sums up 100% just why you have an inflated sense of your own worth, Lang. Pray, tell me just what you have done that makes you so grand or such an expert on what makes this forum so stuck up? Seems strange to me that you keep babbling on about how smart you are and how high your IQ is (what are you, 12?) yet wherever you go it is the other people that are the meanies, not you. Makes you think, eh? I get the impression that you’re one of those sad odd-bod types who loves nothing better than moaning about how the world would be a better place if people just listened to you because they know nothing and you know everything.
Good luck with all of that, Broheim.
See, there you go right there: “…you keep on babbling on about how smart you are and how high your IQ is…”
I’ve mentioned my IQ ONCE, and it was in a specific context to make a specific point. Do please correct me if I’m wrong, to prove your assertion of “…keep on babbling on…how high your IQ is…”
And “…how smart you are…”. Quotes please, to prove your assertion.
Let’s seperate prejudice from fact, right now. You might find that exercise somewhat illuminating, when you see for yourself that your assertions are false. What you’re doing is mistaking an impression you’ve generated from your personal interpretation of what I say and how I say it to what is in fact the reality.
I used to think I was pretty smart. And maybe when I was younger I was (fresh brain). Now the only way I consider myself smarter than most other people is in the recognition of the fact that I’m not particularly smart. But the flip-side of that is my recognition that there are not many people smarter than me, and when some of those people talk to me like I’m an idiot (as happened here right off the bat) I’m forthright in my response Eg, I ask a question, I get a patronising response, I call it bollocks and then the shit hits the fan. “Ooh look, he’s a know-it-all, let’s give him the treatment!”
Funny thing is, I behave in exactly the same way in the flesh, and nobody thinks I’m a know-it-all then. Maybe it’s something to do with the lack of tone, facial-expression and body-language in textual communication (as have often been said).
Plus I’m used to talking (in the flesh or on forums) with adults, who don’t feel threatened by a robust exchange of ideas or forthright responses. I’ve rarely met a bigger bunch of fragile prima-donnas than I’ve met here. I mean, being sent to Coventry…that’s a fucking forum first! How precious! How quaint! 😆 😆 😆
But here’s the bottom line mate…I said I would be able to do X, I was told I was a know-it-all prick who would fall flat on his face, and I haven’t. If that makes me “so smart” or “so grand” or “such an expert” or somebody with an “inflated sense of his own worth”…your words mate, not mine. I’m none of those things, and I do not consider myself any of those things. I’m as big a piece of worthless human shite as the next man (or woman), and that’s a plain fact. How do I get by with that? By knowing that everyone else is exactly the same. No better, no worse.
I’ve still gotten the hang of this lathing BS pretty damn fast though. I rock. 😆
Lang:
The inside of the valve stem is drilled to .238 inch and the inside is polished, all surfaces are smoothed and polished.
I dont know about verturi, the valves just work.
Blodnob is the “king of valves” and the real athority here.
The 4-40 screw I use, has a diameter of .110 inch including the threads.
In the area where the air flows over the screw i sand the threads off to a diameter of .090 inch.
In the pictures you see valve stems made of brass, these were prototypes only. I use steel now, brass was not strong enough.
Mark
Mark. My valve is probly more like your valve these days.
also a 9mm
Lang. I said the biggest hole can use is 7.5mm. But generally use 7mm. Mainly cos i hapend to have a 7mm drill in the chuck at the time.
I think a 6.5 or even 6mm would be just as good.
I’ve come across the same kind of BS many times and places before. There’s always a bunch of arseholes who are sooo up themselves, who think they know everything so much better than anyone else, who are incapable of giving advice open-mindedly and letting the recipient take it or leave it as he pleases, who expect the recipient to fawn and grovel and defer and pander to their sad-sack egos. And this place has been no different. No clique you say? Oh puh-LEESE. If there wasn’t this would be the first fucking forum in history without one!!! There’s the usual clique, the hard-core group of smug habituals, with their follower-ons, holding court and basking in the light of their own imagined superiority. Don’t talk to me about “far over-inflated sense of worth” mate, you’re not talking to some been-nowhere, seen-nothing idiot. I know exactly what the coup is here. And I’m fine with it. Just don’t expect me to sit back, roll over and take it without comment. I like a good laugh too, a bit of entertainment, and I’m quite capable of putting the boot on MY foot. Apparently. 😆
I think that this posts sums up 100% just why you have an inflated sense of your own worth, Lang. Pray, tell me just what you have done that makes you so grand or such an expert on what makes this forum so stuck up? Seems strange to me that you keep babbling on about how smart you are and how high your IQ is (what are you, 12?) yet wherever you go it is the other people that are the meanies, not you. Makes you think, eh? I get the impression that you’re one of those sad odd-bod types who loves nothing better than moaning about how the world would be a better place if people just listened to you because they know nothing and you know everything.
Good luck with all of that, Broheim.
Bloody hell Mark, that is a sweet piece of work! 😀
Ok, before I comment further on your valve…I didn’t say you were not giving me the correct information, I expressed a sense of confusion. Seems a lot of people read their own context into an interpretation methinks (and I do it too). Bygones.
Right, back to your valve. I tried that ‘seal on a stick’ configuration, almost exactly the same as yours. I gave it up even before testing it because I couldn’t see how sufficient air could get down past the post (on mine I had a 4mm post going through a 5mm hole). Now I’m looking at yours it’s occured to me to do a bit of math…
Ok. Post-section area (post of 4mm dia): 2x2x3.14 = 12.56mm
Aperture area (5mm dia): 2.5×2.5×3.14 = 19.62mm
19.62 – 12.56 = 7.06mm
So that’s a flow-area of 7mm feeding a bore-area of 19mm. The math appears to confirm my eye-ball intuition. But you’ve got it working. Is there a venturi effect going on?
As to the Blodnob design, yes, it requires a heavy-duty spring. Like you I was trying to avoid that, but came up against the problem of the size of the seal (hence why I tried the seal-on-a-stick idea). I’m guessing that Sean (Blodnob) went with his design for the sake of production efficiency. Yours appears to be a Rolls-Royce, his a Jeep (if you get my meaning). That’s been a consideration for me too…how difficult to mass-produce and how long to do each one. I’ve even considered some sort or geared or levered design (Archimedes overcomes all forces 😆 ).
So, 0.186″ eh? That’s 4.74mm. What bore is that feeding in the stem?
Thanks for the pictures mate, there’s a lot of food for thought there. 😀 I’m especially happy to see a valve-body made entirely of brass. That also occured to me to do but Sean tried them and changed to steel after he got leaks. Plus I’m limited to 1.25″ in my chuck, unless I hang stuff in the wind. But maybe 53mm x 30mm is doable…
Lang:
I gave you the best & most honist advice I could.
My valves are built different from Blodnobs:
http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=182&highlight=
(notice, there is only one reply to the above post!!!??? no one is pickin on you lang)
You did not specify which type of valve you were building. Valve porting is radicaly different on my type valves vs. Blodnob’s.
If your valve (either type) will not open with full tank pressure then one of two things is happening:
1 Your orifice size (seal size) is too large
OR
2 You are not hitting the valve hard enough
The bigger the orifice (seal diameter) the harder you have to hit the valve to open it.
.186 inch is the biggest orifice size that will open, with 3000PSI , and a stock talon spring. It will produce all the power you want (1000+ FPS) in .22 and .25 cal. I can state this with great certanty for my style of valve and assume that it is true for Blodnob style valves also. I do not build Blodnob style valves.
Blodnob must be using a hammer spring that is a lot stiffer than standard.
If you want better air economy, make the return spring stiffer, but this will make the valve harder to open. You can also talor the “bell curve” velocity profile with the return spring.
I have built a pile of valves, I know what I am talking about.
Lang, it is interesting, if you dont understand something, you assume the other guy is not giving you correct information. You sure have a talent for pissing folks off!!!
Mark
If you have a tank dump:
1 You dont have a strong enough return spring
2 You have too much residual hammer spring pressure on the breach, after you have fired.
3 You have a bind when the tophat is fully depressed
In my experiance, an orfice (seal size) diameter of .186 inch is plenty big for .22 and .25 guns. Your orfice size is way too big – thats why your valve will not open with higher tank pressures. You posted that you had 2 spacers behind your hammer spring, that is causing too much residual hammer spring pressure.
Reduce the seal diameter, then you dont need the hammer spring spacers, and that will relieve the residual spring pressure. — No more tank dumps!
You could try a stiffer spring, but cut it so there is little or no residual pressure.
You only need .200 inch of tophat travel. Travel is not the issue. Seal size is!
I’ll bet you have too much risidual spring pressure. After you shoot there should be very little hammer spring pressure on the breach.
Your right, building valves is a “black art” involving many variables.
I have never seen a person with a bigger chip on his shoulder than you!
I have never felt offended by anyones post here till you had your first fit. The idea that only a few people on this forum are “worthy” to advise you, is quite offensive. Does that make me a “child” also?
Sometimes my posts (with lots of pictures) get less response than I expect.
No one is doing this to you, you are doing it to yourself.
I been on this forum for a long time (from day one!), and I dont consider myself as an “insider”. There is no click here, but when someone behaves as you do, people dont hesitate to point out bad behavior.
Mark
The tank-dump has happened due to the tophat having way too much travel. Now I have it down to a reasonable length the valve is giving mid-900’s from a 2300psi fill. The only issue now is air being wasted, so a bit of fine-tuning is required.
Not sure how you think the orifice is “way too big”, considering my bore is the same size as a Blodnob valve and the seal diameter is smaller than a Blodnob valve (6.75mm vs 7.50mm). 😕
Ditto “.200 inch of tophat travel”, surely that would depend on how I’ve configured the inlet-ports?
“Residual hammer-spring pressure”. I’ve just checked that, you’re right, there is some. Thankyou for pointing that one out, it’s definitely something to look at.
“Chip on my shoulder”. Nah, I just get a kick out of pulling chains. And I find the more over-inflated an ego is the louder a squeak I’ll get in response. I should know, mine’s as big as a barn. 😉 😆
Thankyou for your input, your points have been gratefully received and noted. 🙂
Likewise Tron, I just typed a long thoughtful post in response, but then I thought “fuck it, why waste my time?” You guys can’t see the woods for the trees, you’re so sure of your own rightness. In EVERYTHING. Rude and insecure? That’s so rich you could bottle it and call it forum Marmite. 😆
I’ve come across the same kind of BS many times and places before. There’s always a bunch of arseholes who are sooo up themselves, who think they know everything so much better than anyone else, who are incapable of giving advice open-mindedly and letting the recipient take it or leave it as he pleases, who expect the recipient to fawn and grovel and defer and pander to their sad-sack egos. And this place has been no different. No clique you say? Oh puh-LEESE. If there wasn’t this would be the first fucking forum in history without one!!! There’s the usual clique, the hard-core group of smug habituals, with their follower-ons, holding court and basking in the light of their own imagined superiority. Don’t talk to me about “far over-inflated sense of worth” mate, you’re not talking to some been-nowhere, seen-nothing idiot. I know exactly what the coup is here. And I’m fine with it. Just don’t expect me to sit back, roll over and take it without comment. I like a good laugh too, a bit of entertainment, and I’m quite capable of putting the boot on MY foot. Apparently. 😆
We can make you better then you were before. Better. Stronger. Faster. 😆
I was going to write a long and thoughtful reply about how there is no clique here, just a group of like-minded friends, and I was going to espouse about how it’s amazing how they all help each other because they are all equally passionate, but on second thoughts I shall not bother. Instead, I shall simply say to you, Lang, that you have a far over-inflated sense of your own worth, and to be honest, the reason why no-one is bothering with you is because you reek of rudeness and insecurity. People like you come and people like you go and whilst we would all prefer if you stayed and contributed no-one will lose sleep if you don’t. Now, learn how to be polite and stop with the smarmy comments as I’m bigger, smarter and humbler than you.
🙂
If you have a tank dump:
1 You dont have a strong enough return spring
2 You have too much residual hammer spring pressure on the breach, after you have fired.
3 You have a bind when the tophat is fully depressed
In my experiance, an orfice (seal size) diameter of .186 inch is plenty big for .22 and .25 guns. Your orfice size is way too big – thats why your valve will not open with higher tank pressures. You posted that you had 2 spacers behind your hammer spring, that is causing too much residual hammer spring pressure.
Reduce the seal diameter, then you dont need the hammer spring spacers, and that will relieve the residual spring pressure. — No more tank dumps!
You could try a stiffer spring, but cut it so there is little or no residual pressure.
You only need .200 inch of tophat travel. Travel is not the issue. Seal size is!
I’ll bet you have too much risidual spring pressure. After you shoot there should be very little hammer spring pressure on the breach.
Your right, building valves is a “black art” involving many variables.
I have never seen a person with a bigger chip on his shoulder than you!
I have never felt offended by anyones post here till you had your first fit. The idea that only a few people on this forum are “worthy” to advise you, is quite offensive. Does that make me a “child” also?
Sometimes my posts (with lots of pictures) get less response than I expect.
No one is doing this to you, you are doing it to yourself.
I been on this forum for a long time (from day one!), and I dont consider myself as an “insider”. There is no click here, but when someone behaves as you do, people dont hesitate to point out bad behavior.
Mark
So much for black art and information not being shared freely.
Good info Mike.
Lang,
Folks departing from the norm has resulted in some great innovations here, MM’s in tank regulator is an incredible example and one where he was completely open in sharing pics, and build techniques.
Maybe if you’d started you initial valve build thread by acknowledging the information given to you with a thank you then saying “think i’ll try it this way and see if it works. will post my results”. You’d have probably received a less “scornfull” GO FOR IT from most of the guys.
Langnasen:
If you have a tank dump:
1 You dont have a strong enough return spring
2 You have too much residual hammer spring pressure on the breach, after you have fired.
3 You have a bind when the tophat is fully depressed
In my experiance, an orfice (seal size) diameter of .186 inch is plenty big for .22 and .25 guns. Your orfice size is way too big – thats why your valve will not open with higher tank pressures. You posted that you had 2 spacers behind your hammer spring, that is causing too much residual hammer spring pressure.
Reduce the seal diameter, then you dont need the hammer spring spacers, and that will relieve the residual spring pressure. — No more tank dumps!
You could try a stiffer spring, but cut it so there is little or no residual pressure.
You only need .200 inch of tophat travel. Travel is not the issue. Seal size is!
I’ll bet you have too much risidual spring pressure. After you shoot there should be very little hammer spring pressure on the breach.
Your right, building valves is a “black art” involving many variables.
I have never seen a person with a bigger chip on his shoulder than you!
I have never felt offended by anyones post here till you had your first fit. The idea that only a few people on this forum are “worthy” to advise you, is quite offensive. Does that make me a “child” also?
Sometimes my posts (with lots of pictures) get less response than I expect.
No one is doing this to you, you are doing it to yourself.
I been on this forum for a long time (from day one!), and I dont consider myself as an “insider”. There is no click here, but when someone behaves as you do, people dont hesitate to point out bad behavior.
Mark
Waddaya mean, ingratitude? Go re-read whatever posts you like, I’ve always said thanks, whether I’ve agreed with a particular piece of advice or not. If I’ve disagreed with it I’ve said why, politely or humorously. Scorn and disdain? That really is a crock.
As for all the “knowledgeable people”, yes, there are a bunch, and I’ve used plenty of their advice. I’ve also bought books and researched stuff on the net. But finally you have to get on with it and trust your own instincts to a large degree, tempered by whatever advice/research you felt was applicable. And I guess it worked, I’ve turned a bunch of stuff and all of it successful in one way or another so far. Which goes directly opposite to what I was told to expect. And blah blah blah. The point is I said my piece back then, was told I was a know-it-all gobshite and would fall flat on my face, but haven’t. That’s the bit that’s sticking in some craws around here, and that’s why some people are sulking/giving me the silent treatment. 😆 Like WK said himself, “We have ways of seeing people off” (or words to that effect). Think again mate, that wasn’t going to happen until I stuck my valve right up your dairy. 😆 😆 😆
But hasn’t all this been covered before? I’m sure it has. Then I got the old “brotherhood” speech, and what a friendly bunch of guys everyone was. Followed by the cold shoulder from the clique (*sob!* 😥 ). Hey, I’m hurting here! All I wanted was a few congratulations from those I proved wrong, a bit of kudos for being a smart-arsed winner with an ego the size of a barn. Wassup, too much to ask? 😆 Look, I’ve got all my fingers too! Hey, my coolant pump broke after one hour of use. I’ve been cutting steel while holding a detergent bottle over the work, squirting coolant by hand. How fecking awesome is that? Me being a clueless novice and all! I rock.
Here’s the reality chaps. Yes, I asked a lot of questions when I first got here, and I got a lot of knowlegeable replies. But I also heard a lot of pretentious old shite. And I said so. Politely. BOOM! That was my big mistake, huh? Now I’ve proved my point….”Ignore him. He’s not there. La la la la….we’re not listening…!”
Seriously though, I’m not as good as I pretend to think I am. But here’s the kicker…neither are you lot. It’s that old human nature shit…you take your skills and you try to turn them into some kind of arcane mystery, pimping them out with pretention and “ooh…!!! It’s a black art, innit.” And when somebody calls you on it you call them a know-it-all smart-arse and give them The Treatment.
I proved ya’ll wrong and you’re blanking me over it. Fact. Well I can understand that. Nobody likes having his ‘magic’ revealed for a common trick. I know where ya’ll are coming from. The scenario is as old as mankind himself. The Shaman, the priesthood…”The special knowledge is only for those worthy of it. Anyone who comes to learn of it shall bow down to the masters and pay due homage. And if ya don’t we’ll piss on your parade!” 😆
Anyway, I have a new and better design on the drawing-board already, and it’ll incorporate a very basic type of regulator (experiment will reveal how good or bad it is). Hey, am I kicking ass or what? High-five anybody? Anyone…? 😆
Lol. The “nicest bunch of people” huh? Who have been studiously ignoring every post I’ve made. How stupid do you think I am? Do you think I’m unable to compare now to before, to how they respond to other peoples equally banal/interesting posts vs mine?
Now don’t get me wrong, I could give a flying fuck. It’s just that having recognized and confirmed the behaviour, and the obvious reasons for it, I thought I’d have me a bit of fun with it too and toot the old horn a bit. 😆 So chill out and don’t take it so seriously. It’s just some more of the old banter between me and the good old boys, having a laff. 😉 😆
People are not ignoring your posts, but why should people bother writing out long and thoughtful replies that in the past have been received with scorn and disdain from yourself? As I say, people here will help you with whatever you need, should you just be a little humble and more willing. Feel free to toot that horn as loudly as you like, but don’t be surprised when no-one wants to hear it.
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Blodnob:
Wow! Those are pretty valves.!!!
I dont claim owernship of this style valve, it was just easier to make a distinction between the two styles.
Looks like you cut the ports in one pass with a ball endmill. I have been using mulitple passes in two setups. I like your methiod.
Mark