has anyone seen the new hybrid slug?
I watched a video from Airgun-101 which featured the slug. It’s a hollow-point with said BC of 0.08. Lots of shooting in the video. bit expensive at $15.00 per 100 slugs. I don’t think I should post a link here, so I’ll simply say it’s good to see this new twist for the community. I wonder if my Short can handle it.
darryl
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Here is a title I found @ midway usa…
Tubb Final Finish Bore Lapping System. There are of coarse others.
Copy and paste this title in the search…
Darryl,
I get what your saying with to tight. It probably is from the sound too.
Problem if it’s this tight, your going to end up taking more of the riflings than the rest of the bore, so that it is concentric, other words you take as much of the riflings as you do the lands and everyhing far as the profile of the bore basically.
We really need to pin gauge you muzzle bore to know more of what you have there!
I will also see if I can get you a hyperlink to the honing projectiles…
rowdy,
I ave bent a barrel to shift it’s POI before, but just once, and I got lucky.
As for why I think the choke is too tight, it’s because shoving a pellet through it took a bit of force (I know that’s subjective), but also because of the trailing edge feathering of the rifling impressions left on the pellet. I have talked with Endo about this and he sent me pictures of his pellets drawn through a similar mystery barrel,and they showed nop sign of feathering jagged edges, but rther were mostly smooth impressions left from the rifling. So, comparatively speaking, my barrel’s feathering could be assumed to be tighter than his barrel. The pellet passed easily along the barrel and when it hit the choke there was very noticeable difference in the amount of effort to push it through. I makes me think of excess friction in the barrel too. Can’t be good.
I’ll have to re-read your post to get a better understanding of what you’re telling me. But it sure seems an interesting read, even if I have to go back and read it over to be certain of what’s being said. So thank you for taking the time. Maybe you can recommend a particular grit range for the work?
thanks again,
Darryl
Sure, I want use brass or whatever sort of metal brush in a bore of pellet rifles or my rimfire.
The riflings are just not going to support that sort of thing jimo… Lots of controversy about this.
I don’t even like the nylon coated metal push rods in these 2 types of barrels. I only use them to push pellets or the gratex honing projectiles, otherwise the rods are for centerfire only.
Now as to help, you do have a chrony? You will need one.
The other issue here is you should feel the pellet or whatever you push or pull through the bore when it enters the choke area.
Now I want to understand why you think its to tight?
Do you have another known excellent barrel to compair this one to? A really nice set of pin guages to properly guage your muzzle?
Just to guage by feel of you pushing the pellet is going to be suggestive, and not absolute which is what we need! The muzzle end of the barrel is the single most important are of the barrel, the choke or no choke as well.
Care most be taken and very tack full work. You forget about how much time your spending 🙂
You can get the gratex bullets in a few different grinds of polish in what ever size you need.
I have needed to work some smaller in od before pushing them to help clean and sharpen the bore. That is not as easy to turn the od of those down to get the correct size to not over do the bore.
So you buy plenty 🙂 and don’t over do this and end up with the pellet falling out the barrel when carried muzzle down 🙂 I am laughing about this but that is not funny.
You don’t snarl up the choke and or muzzle either, the least bit can ruin things quick…
The very reason mass production of things like trigger components and barrels are either expensive or chit at best… The tolerances some use now days are to far from go no go. Those items need to be spot on and are very seldom this way!
Rag buffing is really slow work, nasty getting all over you as you work. Thats ok, better to go very slow and in total control.
You don’t need this looking like you worked it over with a pipe wrench and a chainsaw, nor pecker tracks from Bucky Beaver!
So you find the solid round bullet shapes of the gratex in the different grits and easy up on the paste a little. The paste can get you out of round really easy… Naw off parts of the bore and not consistent at all. Not Good!
Now, the feathering and tearing can be from either end of you barrel, some has even been from the rifling be so poorly from a 12 dollar barrel of coarse. Then there is the one out of the last 1000 barrels that QC dropped the ball on, those are usually reserved for me though… You could have one 🙂
I have always stayed positive looking at this
“Oh hell, I can fix it dammit” sorry sob’s to send me this anyway… Not good but a hail marry effort then figure out what you have or not.
Heck I even hear of some techs bending barrels to get the poi where needed. I am not going there. That is another one of those bs action I want be doing or having paid to be done 🙂
Don’t care how well it works, looks or how easy and cheaper it is either.
Just sayin’ and its just me 🙂
Hi rowdy,
Thank you for the explanation regarding profiling a barrel. I think I have a grasp of this “master technician” work. I do have one question,as it related to our airgun barrels. First let me explain a circumstance I found with my Petr’s mystery barrel. When I shoved a “5.52 mm” pellet through the barrel and out the muzzle, upon looking at it under an eye loupe, I saw feathering at the trailing edges of the rifling marks on both the head and the skirt. I repeated this because that pellet measured 5.51 mm. Several more were tried, of which the size spread went from 5.49 mm to 5.52. All were similarly feathered. So, a Flitz workout and after a Hulk smash session the feathering was reduced. The rifling still seemed to me to be deep. I wondered how deep a bite was needed in the pellet to impart a spin. It makes sense to me that the “bite should be just deep enough to maintain stability of the pellet (entering and exiting the choke,btw). So I think I have more work to do to lessen the bite of the choke. At this point I guess I’m looking at some compromise between the bite of the lands for pellets and slugs. Basically my thinking is that minus the optimum spin rate, at least I can shoot for the least amount of bite for pellets and slugs without compromising accuracy for either one while reducing friction.
Please comment, and can you (or anyone) suggest a more aggressive grit compound to use on the choke. I could really feel the extra grunt needed when the pellet first entered the choke. Though the effort was slightly less, the feathering is still present, but not quite so much. I’d follow up with JB Bore Paste.
Not to hijack the OPs subject, 🙂
thank you,
Darryl
Darryl,
Profiling a barrel is to cut the od of the barrel for the application. Then the oal from the breech end, then the shape of the od @ breech. Then your transfer porting, indexing locators, throating the rifling at the breech end and cleaning all sharp edges so pellets inter nice and smooth with the hint of rifling at the seating point, ready to be launched.
Then you move to the muzzle end where you need to address the area of the pellet leaving the inside bore crisp and clean at the very tailing edge.
I also begin this with cleaning the bore, smooth out the transfer port area on the inside bore, then lube the bore. Then depending the make up of the barrel, I pushing more than a few pellets from the breech out, inspecting each as the come out.
This helps sharpen and polish the rifling and lands and blue printing the bore from one end to the other for said requirements. Some you may need to use projectiles of gratex to get the pellet process advanced before starting the pellet pushing 🙂
Basically you can get as involved as much or less as you want or need on profiling…
Muzzle porting, threading. The cutting and or threading for open sights, and the list goes on and on.
Then once all this is done, you can start the polish of the od of barrel, or not!
The muzzle end of any barrel I do gets the muzzle polished like glass, no exceptions here.
It can be quite involved with some applications 🙂
Especially if issues with the bore rough and unfinished for the most part.
More of that bs they sell us on that ain’t at all! We all here know that crap. I get really po’d over that, but in the next breath, I love to fix all that stuff so I can point out how shoddy their stuff is 🙂
I can be quite relentless about that if I know for a fact they know better and have done better. Now if someone doesn’t know, that is way different and if something I can help with, I am the first to volunteer if I can!
Heck I get into stuff all the time myself that is my first time for something, like this one and one more will make two 🙂
When you ask for help, most often someone has already the cap and T-shirt for said issues 🙂 You just got to love those guys…
A comparative video. I’d like to pint out the comment about the slug’s speed regime @2:30 into the video. That makes me a bit hopeful. What remains to be seen is how accurately they will shoot in my Short. I’m an urban plinker, so no long-range opportunities like these guys (and probably unlike most of you as well) but the idea of shooting slugs is something “new and shiny” for me. Not certain how much I’d put into it to have my gun shoot them well. Fingers crossed (ye who enter here forsake all hope!) 😀
Darryl
Dang must of had helium on the brain. Sorry bout that rowdy you said nitrogen and my dumbass thought helium for some stupid reason. How ever I did ask airgas about nitrogen they told me nobody around SA uses it so they don’t stock any.
Hey rowdy,
One of my other hobbies is tuning my cars over the years. So many parts are marketed as being superior to the OEM, along with the questionable “data” to prove it. Most of it’s a racket to sell aftermarket this and that. I take my time with my selections. Where you can, more info is always better, and no need to reinvent the wheel is someone’s been there, done that. Someone once told me “In God we trust; all others bring data”. Sounded good to me.
Back on topic. Rowdy what do you mean by “profile my own barrel to fit whatever I needed it to fit”? Also, I’d get the air compressor. With an inline air dryer so you’re not pumping air into your gun or fill tank. Unless you can show that $300.00 per cylinder fill is more economical. I know the nitrogen will keep the innards dry.
About helium, I don’t think you need the 6000 psi tank. I tried finding it here in SA no luck.
I did watch a video today where a guy used low psi helium tank 2000psi to pump a cf tank to 4400psi of helium with a shoebox compressor.
Search YouTube for 20mm Air Rifle on Helium the guy ends up shooting this rifle with 3700psi helium @824fps for a whopping 1776fpe just freaking amazing.
You know slugs have always been neet to try, I use to get the ringed slugs from the old Tag site, was a guy and his son doing them. I think his name was Jerry! I think.
Had a self built AF Condor I had 177,22 and 25 barrels for shooting Jerry’s 25 cal slugs through. That thing was a cannon with those slugs. To much so for most things I was shooting. I had a butt load of time building up all the special parts I had to. Ended up with a nice setup though.
For now all I got in a pcp is my Rapid mkII in 22. After a butt load of custom parts its really nice also. At least the trigger is good after I added the adjustable over travel stop.
I don’t like any trigger without a over travel stop.
Another thing this Rapid has is a 24″ barrel. That makes all the difference in the world of a pellet rifle.
I think a 24″ barrel for 22 Veteran would really benefit them also, sure the 25 also to get more power. Now if all your going to do is shoot Diablo design pellets you don’t have to have a 24″ barrel, but if your smokin’ different projectiles you would be benefitted from the longer barrel. In a Bullpup its still not a handycap.
My Rapid is freakin crazy on the over all length…
Another thing I like to shoot is solid round lead ball ammo. You need smooth bore or close, like 1 twist in 38″ or even slower. Hard to come by in some caliber’s.
I have always wondered about all those early smooth twist barrels that FX had so much darn trouble with! I tried to get some of the guys that had good air and chrony’s to try some of the 22 caliber solid rounds to see if they would group really well, even sending some of my solid rounds to a few, they never did and got there barrel replaced.
The solid rounds if you can shoot them well and really fast, they are amazing for some stuff. I could profile my on barrel to fit whatever I needed it to fit. I just need to acquire a few other expensive things before getting into that again.
I have been harassing my local welding supply to get me hooked back up with the 6000psi nitrogen I use to get… That way I don’t have to buy a compressor, they told me they can but its like almost 300 bucks to fill it.
I use to get them 2 or 3 tanks at a time for purging all the stainless pipe work I was tigging up, was like a 100 bucks for 3 cylinders
Not the case any longer. I have not given completely up on getting that back, but its not looking very promising at this point.
Get Christmas and New year over with, I have got to figure if I am buying a compressor from Tony or the nitrogen or whatever. Cause I have lots of things around here to mess with.
I am sick of not being able to trust all this info on utube and the major pellet shops that will print all sorts of data about this and that and all it is, are just random bs…
The nice thing here has been the guys share alot of good info that informs us all. If you can use it great, if not; its ok also.
I have burned off enough paper on here for now, rant off 🙂
miksatx, I responded to your PM. Thanks for contacting me there.
I get what you’re saying about the specs. The proof is in the pudding, but when it comes to slugs and barrels, there are vrey many different “puddings” in the mix. Best to wait for empirical testing results from among us air-gunners. But don’t look at me. I don’t have the range to do justice to the reputation of slugs. Perhaps in the near future several here could put some slugs through their guns and report back here.
With my Short, I’m looking forward to trying out the Nielsen 17.5-grain slugs. 27 fpe works out to 833 fps for that pellet, if my barrel does not have fps-killing drag, let alone the choke, which is not a bit less tight for the AA-18s than it was before (I managed to polish it enough to where a pellet shoved through it does not have feathered edges in the rifling marks on head and skirt).
well, onward and upward!
Darryl
I’d take the speacs with s grain of salt every airgun is going to shoot them different.
Sent ya a PM i think lol. Still learning this site. Let me know if ya got it.
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Just keep in mind these are going to be 5.56
You will need to work the od smaller before using them on our air rifle barrels.