Having some problems with my .25 Need help again
Ok this morning was the first day that it was not snowy and windy since I have had my .25 barrel so I shot a few groups to see what it could really do. I am shooting at 40 yards and using JSBs. My first group was not so good(1.5inches), the second was good at under .75 inches, the third was bad again(over 1.5inches), the fourth had most of the shots go into .5 inches and two shots openng it up to over 1.5 inches. I don’t know what the problem is. 😥 The only thing I can come up with is that the JSBs are not consistant in this barrel, the numbers are good but the groups are not. I will try some different .25s when I get them but have only JSBs for now.
It’s not my tank or valve because it works fine on my other Talon.
It’s not my scope because I tried it on my BSA Lonestar and got great groups.
It’s not the wind because there wasn’t any this morning.
It’s not me because I shot several groups from my other Talon and BSA and got several good, consistant groups from both.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
All Replies
Well then it sounds like it’s my barrel. 😥 The thing I don’t understand is that it has shot several good groups. I have had a bad barrel or barrel with a bad crown before and they didn’t act like this.
If it is not your
Tophat
Valve
Scope
Grub screws
Fill pressure
trigger technique
parallax
Then it is your barrel
The pellets were here when I got home today so I decided to try H&N Baracudas and Beeman FTS. They both grouped just as bad as the JSBs.
I lube my pellets that I shoot through PCPs and have never had an accuracy problem because of lubed pellets but I tried unlubed anyways. I ran some patches through to get the oil out of the barrel and shot 20 pellets right from the tin before I shot for accuracy. When I shot for accuracy I got the same results as before.
Any Ideas??
Bobaround
The breech, barrel, and top hat are aligned. Even though the cocking knob does not slide to the side when it is screwed in all the way I am still getting good, consistant numbers with it loose. I am talking 5 shots in a 5 or 6fps spread which is consistant enough for even 100+ yards.
Jeff said:
Well when I screw in the cocking knob all of the way it will not slide to the side so I loosened it just enough to slide over and still got bad results.(chrony numbers like 750, 704, 765,735) I said to myself “What the hell” and then loosened the cocking knob even more so it slides to side with ease, instead of last time when the bottom of the cocking knob was rubbing against the frame…..and it worked!! The cocking knob is so loose that it turns a little during cocking but it works. My first 5 shot group at 40 yards was .5 inches or under, judging through the scope and the numbers look like this now 885,889, 884, 880.
So, it shoots ok with the knob loose,
WalkonKing said:
Sometimes you might need to shim the bottle collar. It can be out of alignment and that makes the tophat out of alignment. When you put the bolt on it, it then is askew a bit and can cause erratic shots.
Sounds like the problem maybe the tophat and breech. The tank screws in and binds the breech, or the tophat doesn’t fit in the breech correctly. Move the bottle collar insert back so the breech knob fits properly, when you screw the tank in.. This way the tank fits both frames. Hopefully! Maybe WalkonKing can explain how to adjust it.
synopsys
I have one Talon tank that is untouched from the factory and it is on my .22 Talon. I have another Talon tank that I did this mod on http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1272 and it is on the .25 Talon. I thought it might be too much for the Talon valve also but the numbers are consistant and not to slow to be accurate.
The reason I got another Talon is to put the .25 barrel in. My .22 was and still is shooting so well that I do not want to mess with it. The reason I did not think the pellets were the problem at first is because JSBs are very accurate in most of my other rifles….I know every rifle isn’t the same so my barrel may not like the JSBs. Another reason is that I have shot several good groups with the .25 JSBs. If I had to put in in a percent I would say 20% of the groups are great(.75inches or under) and the rest are just unacceptable.
The PW setting is higher on the .25 Talon but like I said the numbers are consistant enough for good groups. Over a 20 shot string the extreme spread is under 25 fps.
Is that with a Hi-Flow/Condor Valve or a stock Talon valve? And what’s your barrel length?
Kinda thinking I could swing the purchase of a .25 barrel if it’s a Plug and Play install, but I don’t have the scratch right now for extended mods to the valve, hammer, etc. to make it work.
Buzz, if you have a Condor I don’t see it being more than just a typical barrel swap if you have been using heavy .22 pellets…
I think asking the Talon valve to push the larger caliber is a bit much even though the results aren’t as bad as I expected.
But the issue is that the gun needs to be set up for extreme power and so putting it back to normal operation is a bit of a hassle…
Jeff, do you have two tanks with valves?
Ok, I have read the thread a couple of times and i’m a bit unclear (I don’t do well with text and computer screens) so let me throw a few things out there…
You have two rifles and you have tested the .25 barrel in both?
If so and one rifle doesn’t work then the barrel is ok.
If you have only tested the barrel in one rifle, I would put it in the second (the one the valve works well in) and see what happens. If it still works poorly it could be two things. The barrel or the valve doesn’t like pushing the big caliber.
Now you say you shoot the pellets in your other rifle and they work ok, the other rifle is a .22?
If it is and you have swapped the barrels to verify that .25 works in the other rifle, then the barrel or pellet is bad. If it isn’t the same caliber then it is not a good comparison of the two, the larger caliber has more friction if the two pellet weights are the same… If the caliber and weights are different then…
Were the power wheel set at the same preload for the .25 & .22 test? The extra preload may be causing issues…
Swap the barrel into the performing rig and try a test.
If you have done that and it still has problems it could be the barrel or the pellets…
Re. the rifle: I have noticed in tearing down my rifle that the front of the hammer gets all messed up by the trigger thingy that sticks up. The rough edges may have an effect on consistency and one rifle may have more than the other or something…
Re the Talon .25 mod. I noticed that with the increased spring weight, if I give a good clean (and jerky) pull on the trigger the velocities don’t vary much. If I slowly (without a jerk) pull the trigger the velocities are more prone to wandering like the string above. I believe the trigger to hammer contact has something to do with this phenomenon.
Is that with a Hi-Flow/Condor Valve or a stock Talon valve? And what’s your barrel length?
Kinda thinking I might be interested in a .25 barrel myself if it’s Plug and Play, but I don’t have the scratch for extended mods to make it work.
It’s with a Talon valve that I modded for more power. I have a 20 inch barrel.
Is that with a Hi-Flow/Condor Valve or a stock Talon valve? And what’s your barrel length?
Kinda thinking I could swing the purchase of a .25 barrel if it’s a Plug and Play install, but I don’t have the scratch right now for extended mods to the valve, hammer, etc. to make it work.
Buzzcat
Yeah thats what I am waiting on is some more .25 pellets. I just could not believe how bad the groups were with the JSBs. My .22 with shoot under .5 inches at 40 yards with them so I don’t think the JSBs are inconsistant….my .25 barrel just doesn’t like them.
I forgot about the sampler pack they have. Thanks for reminding me!
The pellets are from the same tin and I did not bother sorting because my numbers are good. A five shot string looks like this from my Talon with the JSBs 879, 883,885,882,880 so I don’t think that would cause a problem.
Yeah, at this point I’d try a couple/few other pellet types and see if the condition still exists with them.
No sense in continually tearing down the gun until you try some different styles of lead and see how they perform.
Straight Shooters has what looks like a decent Sampler Pack in .25 for 25 buckaroos.
http://www.straightshooters.com/straightshooters/samplercontent25.html
FWIW, I was never totally sold with the way that the JSBs worked in my .22 either. They didn’t suck, but they were prone to the same type of off-and-on consistency that you describe. Tried the Kodiaks and never looked back.
Did you check to see if there are any difference to pellet weights? Try to sort them in groups and shoot them to see if it makes a difference. Are all the pellets from the same lot #?
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Has the barrel been worked on and or shortened? I had a .25 that I had shortened from 24 to 21 inches. At 24 it shot beautiful, after the shortening(from breech end to keep choke) it shot for shit. Felt like the new breech area had come up on a ‘sloppy’ part of the barrel. The pellets no longer went in snug.