Help tuning- <12 ft lbs. For those in the know
Hi there,
I know most of you are used to work on much higher power, i wonder if you could give me some advice with regards to setting a consistent power/speed for my needs.
My rifle arrived in uk already set up by Ed, at 11.5 ft lbs.
The hammer spring screw is almost all out, with about 3 threads still in.
I wanted to check its consistence so i chronoed it on several occasions.
My aim was to get 570 fps with jsb exact 15.9 grain, wich translates to 11.5 Ft lbs and thereabouts, which is a safe limit i don’t want to exceed.
Anything above 582fps would be above the limit.
I have found however inconsistence between shots, up to 20fps, so i’m obliged to keep the speed at 550fps, to avoid breaching.
550fps is too slow and it changes the poi a lot beyond 50yds.
The changes in speed occur both during the same refill, and from a fill to another.
I.e, i set it a 570 and i think i got a good consistence, then refill and find out 20ps dofference.
I don’t think temperature influences that much, as such changes can be seen in a matter of minutes.
I fill at 220 bar (my bottle gauge) which is 210 on the gun’s one.
I think the power is higher to start with and then goes down and settles at 170bar, but you appreciate police will fill at 200 and start counting from there!!
Initially i thought the spring was beddin in, and needed to be broken in before settling at its final elasticity, but i’ve shot about 2000 pellets and i guess i should have happened already (or do i need more?)
Im currently trying to make veeery small adjustments at time, rather then moving the screw too much, slowly incresing, let’s see what happens.
However i would muh appreciate your thoughts with regards on how to obtain the best speed consistence.
I hear you unscrew the regulator 1/3 of turn and then decrease the spring tension, i guess i should do the opposite, so that more power needs to be applied from the hammer to discharge the air. This way i can tighten the screw a bit more, as right now i think it is so decompressed that it doesn’t “get” or “keep” the fine adjustments i make to its tension.
I hope you know what i mean.
Anyway i would much prefer to find a solution without having to strip down the gun.
I thought wih a regulated rifle i should have not bother with this shite, but it now seems i can’t enjoy using it as im always there checking the speed.
That’s very disappointing i must say.
Any help appreciated.
Cheers.
All Replies
to follow up on uk law
basically most air rifles can be turned up by the owner very easily for example – hw100’s, theoben rapids
but it is up to the owner to keep it below 12 ft/lb
and aslong as the edgun comes into the uk at 12 ft/lb then it is legal
but if i wish to turn it up to 30+ ft/lb and put it on my license i cannot turn it down again and sell it as 12 ft/lb to a non-license holder
scott
Matching the transferport to the output will make the most efficient use of your air giving you better shots per charge and more consistency …. Google moon bear and edgun and contact him,
Zoco,
Anti tamper is an agreement not a law ! In the uk, with out going into to much detail adjustment in the field with out tools is frowned upon ….. I.e the ability to adjust the power on the fly ……. Hence anti tamper to resist enquiring minds
The opening (hole) where compressed air travels through to get into the chamber behind the pellet…
Usually a brass plug where a hole has been drilled……..
You may enjoy watching this animation:
Not an EDgun, but illustrates well what happens……… 😉
Cheers…. 😀
Old goat, i’ll give it a few further tins and fine tuning attempts.
If i don’t get the consistence i like i will turn the regulator “out”..
Just let me get it straight, turning “out” the regulator, by turning the screw clockwise 1/3 what changes does it make?
Can i ask you to explain exactly what this causes?
Will it increse or decrease the pressure inside the regulator?
I take it will increase it so that it will need more pressure from the spring to release the air.
Am i right?
Zocoloco, What is the transferport?
We are talking about few fps, it sounds too manythings to change for such a small fps difference!
I hope to gain consistency with just more tuning but if it doesn’t happen i’ll try the regulator route, that seems viable.
Thanks for the advices, will let you know!
“Downsizing” a full power gun may not be that easy……
Not only may the regulator have to be adjusted and hammerspring also changed, – but a different transferport may be needed…
I don’t know how ED adjusted the sub 12ft/lbs guns, – but apparently the hammerspring has been adjusted out quite a bit. I am not sure, but my gut feeling tells me another spring may be needed in combination with a new transferport…..
That said, I am at a loss to understand how this gun can be legal in the UK at all. As I remember it the wording is something like: “The gun shall not be capable of etc etc etc”. The EDguns we have seen decribed here and the adjustments show that the guns are clearly still “capable of” and thus illegal……….
UK-makers have made it to a science in itself to develop “anti-tampering” devices to make sure no gun sold in the UK is “capable of” unless on a FAC…….
Another issue is the barrel and pellet choice. ED has repeatedly confirmed he has optimised the R3 cal.22 barrel for JSB 18 at some 920 fps. JSB 15.89 at much lower speeds may perform very differently…
In any case, leave the gun to settle (2000 pellets or so) before further adjustments. This again according to ED which has proved to be right also in this respect….. 😉
Cheers from sunny Lanzarote and happy easter !!!! 😆
Yoda, I know that you are not going to want to hear this but, I think that you will need to turn your regulator down a little and then turn in your HST screw.
If it was my gun, I would turn the reg screw out (clockwise) ¼-1/3 turn. Once the reg is turned down then try turning the HST screw in a little and see where you are speed wise.
As your gun is set now, I don’t think that you have enough HST to consistently open the air valve fully each shot. Too little HST pressure will also give the inconsistent speed that you are now seeing. If you just turn the HST screw in right now, your speed will be over the limit.
If you decide to adjust your regulator, I posted a video that might help you do yours.
http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21283&highlight=removing+adjusting+r3s+regulator
Adjusting the reg sounds like it would be a hard job but, it isn’t that bad once you actually decide to do it.
Both paper punching and consistency are better right now on the AA, but purely because the fps spread is much less. Differences of less than +\-10fps Across an average of 565fps won’t affect anything but a tad more than that and that’s a Completely different game.
I trust i’ll find the “sweet spot” of the hammer spring eventually.
I use jsb exact 15.9 grains, 5.52, on both guns and i wouldn’t use anything else.
They are accurate and extremely good quality.
When the speed is constant i get pellet on pellet, i wish i could get this throughout the entire fill.
The pellet is not the issue.
I’ll keep trying!
I would suggest Ed has set up and tested the matador at outputs nearly three times our restricted and imposed limit but I have no doubt the quality of engineering designed into the unit that given sufficient time you will get the consistency you require, what pellet have you settled for ? I have a large batch of Falcons accuracy plus that group well for me, 5.52 head size , are you expericing better grouping with air arms paper punching or chrono reading ? , moving from my R10 to my first electronic daystate I performed very poorly till I learnt the gun and it’s preferred diet of pellet, if I can hit my imposed bench mark i only use my chrono to stay on the right side of the law as I can’t not be arsed to weigh and size pellets,
My airarms is more consistent so far.
As said 15fps difference is enough to move the poi by 1″ (at least) at 50 yds.
Closer than that is less dramatic, but 40-50yds is the distance i mostly shot at..
However, i’ve just started to Play with it, i trust i’ll find a good setting, i need my damn chrono back!
Yoda,
How does the Matador group compared to your air arms ? Recall you have a tdr ? Measurable real world performance against chrono figures, I find my Mine very consistent out to 60 yards at the range but restrict my hunting to 40 yards, are you experiencing real word inconsistency ? I want to ba able to place a grouping at 40 yards that sit tight inside of 5 pence piece and the Matador achieves that very easily as do my daystates and FX, had a few other premimum brands that I couldn’t meet this bench mark but most likely down to poor pellet selection pairing
Scott
I hope you might be luckier than me, however i have shot/chronoed 3 matadors r3 and i have the feeling all of them had the same unpredictability with small (but critical) fps fluctuations.
If you ‘set’ what you think is the position for 570fps, be assured some shots will go out above 12ft lbs.
If you set it at 550, some will drop to 540ish.
Between 570 and 540 there are 1-2″ changes of POI at 50yds, enough to make it unusable for a clean kill…
I must find a solution..
I am in the UK and i am awaiting my edgun r3 .22 standard at 12ft/lbs to be delivered.
This topic interested me as i will be keeping the edgun at 12ft/lb also
I do a licence that i could put it on but the laws in the UK are very strict, and they it works is that i have to get a firearms officer to check every piece of land i have permission to shoot on and tell me whether he deems the land suitable or not, now i have some land that is suitable and some that is not (by FAO) so for now i will be keeping it at 12ft/lb so i can use it anywhere i wish. But after a while i will be given something called an open ticket which allows me to use it anywhere i wish at any given speed of pellet.
But i would love to know about fine tuning the edgun at 12ft/lb level
scott
It is quite simple:
It is not because of the paperwork involved
(in a nutshell: be a memeber of a shooting club, request police permission, pay fees, buy a bulletproof home gun closet etc)
But because you can freely use a <12fps anywere for hunting (providing you have landlord permission and you are 50ft away from roads) but you can’t be as free when you are using a FAC gun.
I believe you need to alert police/get permission etc.
Besides, several farms don’t allow FAC rated guns to be used in the permises.
In short, you have a depowered gun but you can use it almost anywere.
If you want more power, then you have narrower field of action.
It’s a compromise that sucks, i know.
A 11.5 rifle can kill quarry quite easily at decent ranges, i don’t miss a fac rifle that much, to be honest.
yoda, why don’t you get that thing licensed and put it around the 900 mark that they like and were built to shine at?
wile I am very naive to both the ed guns and the laws on that side of the pond..I do know that there are quite a few shooting way over the 12fpe and I believe they have a “license” or the air rifle is “resisted” in some way… just wondering what the process and requirements of this are and why you wouldn’t go through this to have your very expensive gun shooting the way it was designed to shoot?
endothelium… your in Tx, why are you turning your gun down???
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Old goat, i watched your video, so i’d be turning the screw on the opposite way you did on the video, am i right?
In the video you turned it anticlockwose to decrease the pressure inside the regulator and then decompress the hammer spring a little.
I should be doing the opposite.
From your video it dowsn’t look difficult to do, but i see you said it bcomes easy at the fourth attempt!!
What is the most tricky part?
Pushing the regulator back in without destroing the orings?