pressure 22air vs 22LR
Hi, can anyone tell me how is it possible that a .22 airgun (modified condor for example) can shoot almost at same velocity (1100 fps and more) as 22LR when using same 40grain bullets. The pressure which airgun operates is 2000-2900 psi vs pressue in 22lr chamber is arund 22000 psi. My guess would be that when bullet travels down the barrel airgun gives that 2000psi all the way to the end vs 22lr gives this 22000 psi only at the beginning, am i on the right track?
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I am on it! 😀
Now you’re talking Tef!
So fellas let’s see if we can get there!
low friction bullet
long dwell time valve
serious flow
high pressure vessel
longer barrel
Al, Shadoh, others……… start yer lathes!!!!!
Instead of arguing about whether it has been done or not, why not discuss what is needed to make it doable. A long barrel, for starters; something over 30″. Then, a valve that can supply enough air to such a small space. Lastly, lots of psi, no doubt.
Whould that be enough? Who knows!
I also said,”I’m not aware of any credible claim by anyone to have shot a 40gr .22 at 1100 FPS or more. I only did a quick search, did I miss it? I’m sorry for the waste of time and post space if I did. Eleven hundred FPS with a 40gr projectile translates to over 107 FPE, is anyone here getting that out of a modified Condor that is still a .22?”
I have also seen some other claims of very high velocities and some other posts extrapolating theoretecal results. I have not seen any that I found credible. All of those posts seem to be missing some key data or show numbers that never seem to be repeated. I’m not saying it is impossible to do with 3000 PSI, I’m saying it doesn’t appear to have been done yet.
That said, I think your question was valid even though the premises given were off a bit. It is clearly an interesting thing to consider the vast differences in peak pressure resulting in slugs moving at similar speeds. Maybe a comparison of a .22 short vs, a hot Condor would have resulted in fewer entertaining diversions.
I hope you don’t think I was trying to flame you. I was making a point about false premises because sometimes we see some chaff along with the wheat on the net and we go off trying to figure out how someone did something they really didn’t do!
x2
this was my position on the OP as well.
have yet to see such performance from air 🙂
Walter
BTW, when fellas run out of information or cannot think clearly they often resort to swearing and name calling. To be expected but not really taken seriously. Usually only their frustration and failure to communicate that leads them to resort to low-life attacks 🙂
Cheers,
Alari,
I also said,”I’m not aware of any credible claim by anyone to have shot a 40gr .22 at 1100 FPS or more. I only did a quick search, did I miss it? I’m sorry for the waste of time and post space if I did. Eleven hundred FPS with a 40gr projectile translates to over 107 FPE, is anyone here getting that out of a modified Condor that is still a .22?”
I have also seen some other claims of very high velocities and some other posts extrapolating theoretecal results. I have not seen any that I found credible. All of those posts seem to be missing some key data or show numbers that never seem to be repeated. I’m not saying it is impossible to do with 3000 PSI, I’m saying it doesn’t appear to have been done yet.
That said, I think your question was valid even though the premises given were off a bit. It is clearly an interesting thing to consider the vast differences in peak pressure resulting in slugs moving at similar speeds. Maybe a comparison of a .22 short vs, a hot Condor would have resulted in fewer entertaining diversions.
I hope you don’t think I was trying to flame you. I was making a point about false premises because sometimes we see some chaff along with the wheat on the net and we go off trying to figure out how someone did something they really didn’t do!
“Obnoxious idiot,” that’s a little harsh isn’t it? You didn’t recognize my mistake? I think you probably did but chose to take the opportunity to toss out an insult rather than point out the confusion and then make whatever point you so failed to make before.
If you just wanted to pass along that you fill your gun to 3000 PSI and it works, great. What that has to do with my point about the original post having false premises I don’t know. I’m glad you answered the original question, congratulations.
You were going off about checking facts when yours were messed up, and you did it twice, and yes I recognized it and pointed it out, TWICE!
It’s hard to accept anything you say about facts when your are so far off it’s not funny…
Maybe it was a touch harsh but it finally sunk in that YOUR facts are the ones that are screwed up, not mine…
The link: http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2479
I don’t think he used helium, i guess we could pmsg him and ask.
no time for that now, have to run….
Alari
You say it is a false statement, hmmm….
take a look at http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2479
Daved wrote:
“Just for grins, awhile back, I decided to see just how fast I could go. With a 24″ .22 barrel, and 28 gr. EJ’s, I had several shots in excess of 1400 fps, and a couple over 1500. And that was with a 75 gm. hammer and stock spring. I could probably have gone faster with the 110 gm hammer and different spring, but who cares?”
….Ouch 🙁
If he could go over 1500 with 28 grainers, don’t you think that 1100 fps can be achieved with 40 grainers?
Regards,
Alari
Do you have a link to that post?
Did he achieve this with the max working pressure of 3000psi?
Did he use air?
Tell us more if you can.
Thank you.
Walter….
edit: the link was not visible on my screen, found it by scrolling of the page.
Well that post back then garnered ‘zero’ respons of his velocity claims so I wonder how many believed it?
mmmmm
DaveD….. more data???
‘could have gone faster but who cares’ WHAT…… you gotta be kidding Dave!!!!!!!
You say it is a false statement, hmmm….
take a look at http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2479
Daved wrote:
“Just for grins, awhile back, I decided to see just how fast I could go. With a 24″ .22 barrel, and 28 gr. EJ’s, I had several shots in excess of 1400 fps, and a couple over 1500. And that was with a 75 gm. hammer and stock spring. I could probably have gone faster with the 110 gm hammer and different spring, but who cares?”
….Ouch 🙁
If he could go over 1500 with 28 grainers, don’t you think that 1100 fps can be achieved with 40 grainers?
Regards,
Alari
Yes, I clearly confused you with the original poster. Probably because you quoted part of my post and then made a comment that made no sense.
“Obnoxious idiot,” that’s a little harsh isn’t it? You didn’t recognize my mistake? I think you probably did but chose to take the opportunity to toss out an insult rather than point out the confusion and then make whatever point you so failed to make before.
If you just wanted to pass along that you fill your gun to 3000 PSI and it works, great. What that has to do with my point about the original post having false premises I don’t know. I’m glad you answered the original question, congratulations.
You realize that 3000 is outside the range (2000-2900) you specified for airgun operation, right? I simply pointed out your mistake and you appear to have provided another example of why you were wrong in the first place. If you intended to say that Airforce guns operate from 2000-2900 PSI, you should have said so instead of being more general. You would have still been wrong, but much closer to correct. Unless you also intended to say that Airforce guns can shoot .22 40gr projectiles at close to 1100 FPS with air pressure varying from 2000-2900 PSI, which has not been demonstrated to my knowledge.
Since you mentioned modified Condors, you might note that many modified guns operate at other than the standard manufacturer recommended pressure. Tofazfous’ .25 can take up to 3400 PSI and operate just fine and my .308 Condor likes 3400-3500 PSI for max power.
Do you have any information to share regarding the .22 Condor that shoots a 40gr pellet at close to 1100 FPS?
Let’s see, I NEVER specified a range and NEVER mentioned modified Condors and my Talon operates at 3000psi (not 2900) when full, just as much as a powder burner operates exactly at the pressure they claim it does.
IF you read the posts you’ll see that I have answered the original post’s question, unlike yourself.
Get YOUR facts straight if your trying to make a point, otherwise your just being an obnoxious idiot.
I think you mean “weigh”….
Ha. Yeah yeah. Fine.
Noooo… Lama’s Nine !
I think you mean “weigh”….
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So fellas let’s see if we can get there!
low friction bullet
long dwell time valve
serious flow
high pressure vessel
longer barrel
Al, Shadoh, others……… start yer lathes!!!!!
Ok if you modify your air rifle to shoot 40gr @ 1100fps, I would like to see the original question answered instead of having its logic picked apart.
Inadvertently, you made it possible in your quote above, I think. You gave the parameters necessary to achieve the levels asked about.
I never thought everyone would get so intense when I re-asked the question. I didn’t care if the 2 projectiles couldn’t actually hit the same velocity using different powerplants. I was really curious why air seems to be more efficient than gunpowder.
$0.02