Q:

Quo Vadis marketplace, – or what’s next…???

Hmmm…..

What’s happening next now ? Where is the market going with regards to our beloved bullpups ?? 🙄

I’m trying to polish my crystal ball here, – not an easy task. But it’s fun to sit back and try to analyse…. 😉

I have asked previously and will ask again. I know others have asked the same. How long will this bullpup craze last ???

My guess it’s here to stay. The number of people I know who has “converted” from “normal” guns is surprisingly high. And judging from feedback from various sources, it seems an increasing number of individuals now see their bullpup as their number one airgun to go to. There could be numerous reasons for that, – however size seems to matter, and accuracy has been documented over and over again. “Fashion” may be a part of it too….

Size of market ? I have no clue. The US alone counts some 250.000.0000 individuals. If 1% should own an airgun, – we’re talking some 2,5 mill. units. Probably a bit optimistic, – but whatever way you look at it, the marketplace is obviously quite big….

Now how many bullpups have entered the US market as of now ? Again I haven’t the faintest, – but my guess is we’re still not talking more than about a couple of thousand units at the most. Even that may be a bit on the high side judging from what can be seen from forums, producers’ reports and importers’ own information. Face it, – when a shipment of 100 units becomes a big deal, – the total number of bullpups already here cannot bee enormous. My figures may be wrong, and I’m waiting to stand corrected. However in my opinion, we are far from a “saturated” market as per today….

The players in the market are so far Edgun, Kalibr and now the upcoming P12 and twins. FX is a good runner up with their BobCat, and Evanix is in there too somewhere. May be a few others…..

It is fascinating to see how the different producers play their game.

The recent price drop from AOA indicates to me that they want their slice of the cake. Whether their price-drop is meant to put individual dealers out of business by squeezing their margins and later put the price up, – or drop the price to get more volume or both, I don’t know. However the Cricket price drop is a fact, – and AOA seems to firm the grip. Now IF they have signed a sole agreement with Kalibr, – my guess is it would have been as a trade off for more volume. Now, with the new Snowpeak P12 and clones, – that volume may not be quite as easy to achieve. The Cricket people may find themselves in a squeeze very soon. If they don’t lower the price even more, – they may find the biggest lump of the volume market may be eaten by the P12 and friends. The P12 potential seems huge if they play things right (quality control, return policies etc.)

Attacking the volume market and fighting the Chinese may have some undesirable side effects in the long run. I would never underestimate the ugly and unmanageable word “perceived” value of the product. The “identity” if you like. “Perceived value” is inevitably linked to price. Now if the Cricket people ends up spiralling down prices in order to master competition volumewise, it may be good for consumers in the short run. However quality and service is bound to suffer in a longer perspective. You may end up finding very few retailers around willing to support the Kalibr team because of low margins. The above is based on the pre-assumption that the Chinese have a lower cost of production.

In short: Our beloved “Crickets” (I love mine) run the risk of being perceived as an inferior product compared to other brands. IF the Kalibr operation has signed an exclusive deal with AOA, – they may actually have signed a deal with “the devil” himself. AOA will most likely start squeezing the Kalibr operation for margins very soon……..

Also I wouldn’t be surprised if AOA suddenly flags an exclusive deal with the Chinese. If that happens, cards may be reshuffled and redealt……….

I feel really sorry for guys like WWAG/Steve and their strive for an optimum customers service and their desire to be the best. So far they are quite unique, – but for how long ????

The AOA would most probably flag the BobCat as their top of the line bullpup. At least for now. Others may come onboard (Daystate ?) and compete. Both brands carry a “perceived” value which in my opinion do NOT reflect their “real” value. I think they’re overpriced for what they really are. In the case of FX, – it is seen as rather ordinary in other markets and not as “exotic” as you see it in the US. But there again: “perceived value” is something very difficult to define…….

Now, what about Ed in all this ?

What seems obvious is that he may not sell as many of his guns into the US as one could have expected only a year ago. And quite honestly I don’t think he cares much. He has a long list of buyers signed up at home. He hasn’t invested in a long and costly production line, and he seems to want to be in the business because he thinks its fun. His products may seem overpriced by many, but unlike all others there’s a “feel” that a part of Ed himself is in the package there somewhere. And while it is true that his arrogance sucks at times ( I have seen my fair share of that), that spareparts are few, return policies not to our liking etc. etc., – he has still proved over and over again that he somewhere down the road stands behind his product and will support you until the end after all. The Edguns may in my opinion “float around” in it’s own “niche” where price may not be seen as important for a long time still. And they may continue to win 100m contests as they have in the past.

What a beautiful position to be in……….

My two cents (probably not even worth that much…….) 😳

What do you guys think will happen……?

Cheers
Trygve :biggrinn:

BullPup General Chat

All Replies

Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 45 total)

1 2 3
quote rkr:

quote btango05:

quote dman1114:

The Chinese are fully aware that if that P12 come out of the box leaking and shooting like shit people are gonna be all over the internet bashing there product

Let’s face it the internet is a brutal place

So far I’ve seen 2 reviews about the P12….Wingman and the one Hemn posted….Both required an overhaul to get them to hold air….but it doesn’t seem to dissuade people’s anticipation of their release? That’s what I mean about perspective….why is ok to pay $700-$1000 and have a leaking gun but not ok to buy a $2000 gun and have leaks?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I don’t get it either, for 1000$ you can have a M-rod bullpup or build a bullpup of your dreams. Why pay such amount for a single shot chinese pup that requires quite some work to function properly. Besides, even if these first guns have good barrels there’s no guarantee that the production guns will continue to have the same quality barrels.

RKR;

I prefer to read / watch more details or vids ,,,, as much as all of us saw and read on either Edgun and Cricket,,, i know our beloved brother W NZ, has posted a great and unique review on P12,,, but as we know ,,,there are many issues to be fixed or parts to be changed ,,,,, then we should wait and see the volunteers ,,,

and i totally agree with you on chines productions,,, in my oily country thy have a veeeeeeeerrryyy bad reputation for chines production,,,,,

quote btango05:

quote dman1114:

The Chinese are fully aware that if that P12 come out of the box leaking and shooting like shit people are gonna be all over the internet bashing there product

Let’s face it the internet is a brutal place

So far I’ve seen 2 reviews about the P12….Wingman and the one Hemn posted….Both required an overhaul to get them to hold air….but it doesn’t seem to dissuade people’s anticipation of their release? That’s what I mean about perspective….why is ok to pay $700-$1000 and have a leaking gun but not ok to buy a $2000 gun and have leaks?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I don’t get it either, for 1000$ you can have a M-rod bullpup or build a bullpup of your dreams. Why pay such amount for a single shot chinese pup that requires quite some work to function properly. Besides, even if these first guns have good barrels there’s no guarantee that the production guns will continue to have the same quality barrels.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see a p-12 with the crossman label on it in the near future. On a side note I hope someone other than AoA has the colibri when they become available.

quote btango05:

quote zocoloco:

This video was posted in Jan. this year….:

Since then nothing. I’m wondering what happened to Pyramid in all this…. 🙄

Anybody ? :biggrinn:

I had to set that guy/gal straight about his/her comment about it “basically a FX Matadore” :butkick:

I couldn’t resist 😳

WTF where did that guy come up with that???? FX Matador???? good job Btango

quote zocoloco:

This video was posted in Jan. this year….:

Since then nothing. I’m wondering what happened to Pyramid in all this…. 🙄

Anybody ? :biggrinn:

I had to set that guy/gal straight about his/her comment about it “basically a FX Matadore” :butkick:

I couldn’t resist 😳

This video was posted in Jan. this year….:

Since then nothing. I’m wondering what happened to Pyramid in all this…. 🙄

Anybody ? :biggrinn:

quote Pippo:

Hi eelect,

may I ask you why you are signing with the Kalibrgun logo?

Sorry but I may have missed something.

ATB 😀

I just changed it an hour ago. I’m going to change it later. I figured it fits in with the free advertising subject

Sent from my Z10 using Tapatalk 2

Yes and if the P12 (with all the Wingman advises) will be good and correctly priced then they will sell tons of them …..

And this is only good for all of us ….

Others are offering products at a considerable higher price? Well then they have to be considerably better ….

:fishinghole:

If Snowpeak is really smart it will have its suppliers pay for advertisement on forums that are very “helpful” in promoting a positive web presence. :whistle:

Hi eelect,

may I ask you why you are signing with the Kalibrgun logo?

Sorry but I may have missed something.

ATB 😀

quote zocoloco:

quote Pippo:

………TAG has given a great help to ED…..

I’m the first one to agree to that. I’ve seen no real marketing done from his side, – he’s been smart enough to let us/TAG do it for him, – and successfully so. I’ve commented on that earlier somewhere….

And without TAG, – the Cricket may have had a more difficult start too. As it happens (I’m bragging now, I know…. 😳 ), there are people within the Kalibr environment who firmly states that my comparison thread from a couple of years back may have helped them entering the US-market. So, yes TAG (and/or the likes) has been and most likely will be very important in future too.

Right now we (TAG, Wingman) are doing quite a nice job for the snowpeaks. Don’t you think….???? 😉

:dito: :dito: :dito:

Dear Zocoloco,

I fully agree !!! 😀 and again all for free !!! 😀

I think they really care (or should care) for TAG :fishing:

Yup snowpeak would be dead in the water without this forum. But at the same time it could be to their demise :darth-vader: if this thing don’t fly.

quote Pippo:

………TAG has given a great help to ED…..

I’m the first one to agree to that. I’ve seen no real marketing done from his side, – he’s been smart enough to let us/TAG do it for him, – and successfully so. I’ve commented on that earlier somewhere….

And without TAG, – the Cricket may have had a more difficult start too. As it happens (I’m bragging now, I know…. 😳 ), there are people within the Kalibr environment who firmly states that my comparison thread from a couple of years back may have helped them entering the US-market. So, yes TAG (and/or the likes) has been and most likely will be very important in future too.

Right now we (TAG, Wingman) are doing quite a nice job for the snowpeaks. Don’t you think….???? 😉

Dear All, Dear Zocoloco,

in my opinion there is nothing strange or not common here ongoing.

If your product is OK quality wise, if your price is fair, is your customer support is good, you will have part of the market (TODAY and TOMORROW).

What is wrong with a such good product like Cricket dropping the price? Nothing in my opinion, the prices will still go down further a few buks till they will settle at the right level. Today BPs were simply ridiculously overpriced. The Matador in Europe 2680 USD? Do you realize how much money this is? “But they have part of ED inside”, I don’t want part of ED inside, I want to reduce weight and apparently the part of ED inside costs half of the gun.

The market is asking big numbers and good service and whoever is currently in business and is smart enough will immediately understand that Kalibrgun products will allow them to satisfy those requests. (That’s why AoA jumped in)

There will be other players coming around? This is very good, competition is a continous challenge for the manufacturers if they want to stay on the market and in addition they need to have a competetive price.

I’m happy to give my good money to everybody who is giving me good products and good service.

My last word is about ED. I have been laughing so so long when I read this in your post “ED stands behind his product and will support you until the end after all” 😯 😀 😯 😀 😯 😀 😯 😀 😯 😀 😯 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Now with all due and maximum respect to the so called “EDClub” members, IMHO instead of helping ED in some weird situations you are actually making him digging his own grave, instead of telling him that this way things are wrong (I’m speaking about the R3M flaw and the non existent support) you always find excuses for the “one man show”.

IMHO as I have already said before, if ED doesn’t wake-up and wake-up very very soon then it will not be good for his future business.

ED probably doesn’t care about the US market? (I said propably) Well I’m not so sure about this and I’m not speaking about money, wouldn’t it have been for the TAG then his products would still bet at the level they were years ago, before being discussed on TAG.

TAG has given ED a great help. (And for free)

:2cents:

ATB

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