R3 .30 caliber problem and fix
The Problem:
I first noticed after about 2K rounds my velocity dropped off. That can be common, sometimes the HST needs to be readjusted. So I screwed in the HST 1/4 turn and I was back at the 890 fps I was before. I was fine for about another 150 rounds until the real problem started. The gun started behaving erratic when trying to find zero on my target. I put the Matador on the chrony and I found a strange phenomenon. When the gun was full (220 BAR) no manner where the HST was set the most I could get out of the gun was 750 fps. As the pressure in the reservoir dropped the speed conversely would rise until below 150 bar the speed was at 912. I concluded that the valve must be stuck and the reason for the change in speed is that the valve gets more resistance from the air in the reservoir the higher the pressure. The valve must be allowed to move freely in the regulator. The belleville washers are clean, the O rings are perfect and the regulator is assembled correctly. What I found was the valve stem was slightly bent. I know this problem developed over time because the gun was super consistent when I was new. . The valve stem was not too long as it was in Ed’s factory specs. I straightened the valve stem reassembled the gun and I still had the same problem.
The fix:
what I found was the valve stem was slightly oversized and a little rough. Because the stem is steel and the valve stem housing is brass the valve was getting caught/sticking and in my opinion the valve couldn’t open enough. When the gun fell below the 150 pressure setting the valve didn’t have to work as hard to move forward when the hammer hit the stem. I polished the valve stem with 220/20/400/600/800/1200/2000 grit paper on a lathe until I could see my reflection in the valve stem. The valve moved like it was on ball bearings inside the housing. The regulator gave me 24 shots with the average at 880 and the ES at 2.6 fps.
I welcome any criticism you may have about my fix. It’s is possible that I just got lucky. Hell, it’s better to be lucky than good anyway.
All Replies
The reason the valve is being smashed come from three main reasons. First the regulator pressure is so high (150 bar). Secondly the hammer is much larger. Third the valve weighs more than the .22 and .25 valve that is made of delrin. Because of the valve increased weight EDgun used a heavier valve return spring. See in order for a regulated airgun to be efficient the valve must open and close quickly. The lighter valve is quick but it also broke more. Because of the volume of air required to push a 44.75 grain pellet at almost 900 fps the system needs to be beefier. It’s like taking a bolt action rifle designed for a .22 LR and converting it to a .223 center fire. The pressures require a new design.
I was at the SHOT show last year and a pretty famous airgun maker was there showing off his guns. I had a chance to speak with him for a few minutes. One part of our conversation was about larger caliber regulated airguns. His feeling was a lot of PCP makers make a mistake by just putting a larger barrel on a gun deigned originally to be a .22. This maker’s feeling was the .30 required an entire new platform.
Is it the dead surgeon in the closet that bothers you :bow: :bow: :bow: :hoot: or the Flying Monkeys on the way to RUSSIA? I can never tell with you.
Why do you guys think this is only occurring on the .30….hammer and hammer spring tension beating up the valve stem? Anyone try to unscrew that brass nut on top of the valve assembly. How are the .25 stems holding up?
DT
:hoot:
Ratso….
If your surgery did not go well…Do Not place the guy who operated on you in a closet, as this will not resolve your medical issue!
Seek new medical advice immediately!
Kind regards,
Kindly Ol’ Uncle Hoot:
I wonder how common this problem really is, and whether it is a new problem for the gen 2 .30s. My first gen .30 is still working just fine, although I did preemptively replace the original valve stem with Ernest’s. Admittedly, I probably don’t shoot as much as some of the folks here do.
If Ed doesn’t fix this it is not going away. It will linger like a sturgeon left in a humid closest getting stinkier and stinkier with each passing day. Good luck with that Ed. I am no EDgun hater I own a .25 I love and just sold my Leyla. I am just giving you some advice you should take and take quickly before this sinks you and EDgun! Trust goes a long way with PCP airgunners and EDgun has been given a lot of trust by it’s owners. Your banked trusted is being washed away very quickly. Unleash the flying monkies.
Well done Brian. You did a lot of R&D on the R3 .30, something Edgun should have done before releasing the first version. The second version should never have been put on the market until it was thoroughly tested. Honestly Ed should think about sending 5 or 6 guys like you, Greg(GKU) and Ernest demos for testing before selling a $2000 airgun( especially one that failed the 1st time).
How do you say RECALL in Russian? Ed is a smart man but stubborn, if this issue is not corrected and made right it will hurt Edgun’s legacy. An easy fix? The owners that do not feel comfortable replacing the valve do a recall. For those willing to wait and do the work themselves produce a working valve then ship it asap.
Ed is introducing new airguns at the 2016 Shot Show. If he thinks this will not effect sales worldwide he is mistaken. Who in their right mind would buy an unproven gun from Edgun after seeing/reading/hearing about the R3 .30 failures and how its being handled by Edgun.
Keyser, I thought your problems were gone once you did some valve stem polishing.
yes,,,for sure,,,he is,,, this is what you can find in this forum usually,,, great job brother Brian,,,
“I don’t want to drill and (risk everything. Breaking) it from 2mm to 3mm it’s very difficult to drill such small difference I do this at work if u try to change a 1/2 inch hole to 5/8 the bit gets stuck if the bit gets stuck were fucked it could snap off in there we need new brass sleeves and or cup that the valve travels through as well as the new valves”
Exactly wHore! Exactly and that would happen 9 out of 10 times a broken off bit and many more new problems trying that trick drilling out that extra minuscule diameter. Instead of the airgunner who purchased this HIGH END PCP Fluxing with it have Edward send the proper Valve the proper valve housing and valve stem for this hammer and the proper spring this is what YOU PAID FOR.
This is bullshit. Who ever bought this 2000.00 piece of wall art got fuXed! You are not Beta testers this is the second generation .30 Caliber Edgun and these issues should have been worked out on these guns and should have been tested. Ed’s working on the next generation and he will let Ernest figure it our or John Hagan at Hagan Tool. SEND THOSE GUNS BACK TO FLORIDA. This is ED pulling Toshik into the mud! I feel for Tony.
Man up ED Man up
Oaks
I thought that John haggen was gonna make a stronger stem???
that valve housing doesn’t appear to be that hard for someone with a lathe to make…. then insert a larger brass insert.
I would think that the stock size with a stronger material would do the trick…
I talked to Ernest, he said the only permanent fix would be increasing the OD of the valve stem to 3mm. That would require increasing the ID of the brass valve stem housing. This is really shitty to spend 2K on a gun that is giving me this much trouble. So much fun…
Yep, watched the vid. Do I need a heavier hammer? If I lighten up the return spring on the valve then I am hoping to solve both the issue of hammer mass and valve bending and still hit the velocity target.
If that doesn’t work then its wait and see what ED/Ernest can come up with.
DT
U watch the video
(Dan T
U. need a heavier hammer and the valve that u just installed will then bend
Ed needs to make 3mm valves (perminant fix) and sending some to tony I don’t know if we’ll need a stronger return spring to move the larger valve also I don’t want to drill and (risk everything. Breaking) it from 2mm to 3mm it’s very difficult to drill such small difference I do this at work if u try to change a 1/2 inch hole to 5/8 the bit gets stuck if the bit gets stuck were fucked it could snap off in there we need new brass sleeves and or cup that the valve travels through as well as the new valves
Hope this helps u DanT so u need new hammer new valve 3mm and then a way to fit said 3mm valve into a 2mm hole
KS, good vid.
The .30 I just picked up from Zeafus has the smaller lower mass V1 hammer. Not as many bolts on the bottom of the reg either. I’m starting to think the valve spring itself may be too heavy or combination there of. Im getting the same characteristic velocity changes but I don’t think my VP is bent on just 60 shots. Will check tomorrow.
Have you tried a lighter spring yet? I may try that next and back off on the HST.
Do you have anything else in the works on this with John or Ernest?
Later,
DT
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Where in the Hell is Pipo? Very unlike him to miss an opportunity like this.
Regards
LarryW ❓