Short Matadors R3
For those who wants EDgun Lelay but cannot get it for a long time. Pay attention to Matador R3 short version, caliber .22. That is only 680 mm long (Lelya 540 mm long), barrel 420 mm (lelya 300 mm), has the same characteristics as normal size or long Matadors (the optimal JSB heavy speed is 890 f/sec), more shots, accurate as any of Matadors, new trigger, very soft and smooth. Besides I will have someday KITs for turning single shot Matadors into multyshot ones but don’t have any plans to make such a KIT for Lelya. Tony has some available to sell in US now.
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Tom, you can check your scopes total moa range by turing full up and then counting the number of rotations to full down.
Mine has 11 rotations total, it has 1/8″ per click (@100 yards) and 72 clicks per rotation.
(72)x(1/8)x(11)=99
http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26300&highlight=
Ed: The rail has in incline 0.5 degrees.
Yep well there is this too… April, 7th 2011. Look at #7…
As for R3, the main difference from the Matador restyling 2.5:
1. The barrel is not fixed to the reservoir any more, so the changing of the pressure is not effecting to the POI any more.
2. The barrel is forced stretched that makes POI more stable. Based on this two things the gun is more stable with POI when the temperatures is dramatically fast change, (like you have a gun in the warm car and have to walk out in the frost), the only changing POI is vertical line during to more dense air, no ways out of vertical. Was tested by freezing the gun in the fridge and heating it with the hair drying during the shooting.
3. The tread on the barrel is 12×1.25 instead of 10×1.25 that less influence to he inner surface of the barrel.
4. The barrel is completely made by Lothar Walther including the threads, very precise manufactured, polished inside at the LW factory. Testers reported that even after 2 thousand shots the cotton plug is clean after taking it through the barrel, no dirty and of course no parts of lead in the barrel as it could happen before. Besides we changed the twist of the groove and the inner diameter of the barrels based on the experiences we’ve made during last year. I consider that it influence to the stability of the shooting as well.
5. The new walnut stock, made in Russia and very high quality. That is default stock now.
6. New sound moderator, slightly better then the previous one.
7. In June we’ll begging to make piccatiny rail with 1.5 degrees incline especially for long range shooting.
8. It became heavier (the iron parts) for 184 grams. But I wouldn’t say that is noticeable.
That is all major changing for short.
Ed
So which is it?
Like I said earlier, i’m inclined to believe it is 0.5 degrees but Ed has said it is otherwise on another occasion…
I did the math and you have calculated out 0.5013 degrees of cant for a drop of 31.5″ at 100 yards.
Think about what I said about the pellet will drop at the 100 yards… 😉
…
At 100 yards an 18 grain JSB in 22cal will drop 28.75″.
If the rail is canted 0.5 degrees (or 31.5″ at 100 yards) the scope should be optically centered and on the poi for a 100 yards shot…
There hasn’t been a single person to find this to be the case with the R3 rail. Ed said in an older post the rail is canted 1.5 degrees and it looks like the real world data is closer to supporting this than less of a cant.
I’m interested to see what your long testing yields. I still have a hard time believing the scope rail has 1.5 degrees of cant (90moa). I am more inclined to believe it is the 30moa that you got from measuring but no one has found this to be the case so far.
I cant be certain of total cant. I only measured the taper in the rail itself. The bottom of the rail appeared to measure parallel to top of receiver but there could be leverage elsewhere. I dont believe 90moa. Seriously doubt I could zero a 90moa gun at 30 yards.
I understand your point – ie that 28″ drop and the rail taper should put me at close to center at 100. My analysis assumes my scope has 100moa. This could be wrong. I will use mirror trick to get optic center and then see how many revolutions I need to get back to zero. This should squash my uncertainty. Scope I have planned for this rifle is a hawke and virtually certain they have much less adjustment than the SS. I tried to get the adjustment spec out of Hawke US and they simply would not answer. Scope is decent but technical support is virtually non existent.
I am just sharing my data as I go. Preparing for thef burris signature rings I just bought. Initial thought is to mount the scope with +.02 of leverage – which should negate about half the rail taper. Have read that setting up the ring inserts can be a pain so would like to nail the setup on first try.
http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26300&highlight=
Ed: The rail has in incline 0.5 degrees.
I get what you are saying tominct…
I did the math and you have calculated out 0.5013 degrees of cant for a drop of 31.5″ at 100 yards.
Think about what I said about the pellet will drop at the 100 yards… 😉
At 100 yards an 18 grain JSB in 22cal will drop 28.75″.
If the rail is canted 0.5 degrees (or 31.5″ at 100 yards) the scope should be optically centered and on the poi for a 100 yards shot…
There hasn’t been a single person to find this to be the case with the R3 rail. Ed said in an older post the rail is canted 1.5 degrees and it looks like the real world data is closer to supporting this than less of a cant.
I’m interested to see what your long testing yields. I still have a hard time believing the scope rail has 1.5 degrees of cant (90moa). I am more inclined to believe it is the 30moa that you got from measuring but no one has found this to be the case so far.
“I’ve owned both Matador in Short and Standard. The Standard was quieter, not that much heavier or longer. I sold it because it didn’t offer any change worth measuring over the Standard.” <-think you meant “short”
..you didn’t like the short? ive got my sites set on a short since im after weight savings and compactness. dont really care if the short will be a bit louder or offer fewer shots.
please elaborate on why you prefer the standard matador to the short.
tks.
This is not right. At 100 yards a 22cal 18.1 grain pellet will drop 28″ that, means everyone would be experiencing their scope dead on at optical center.
Most people are in fact finding themselves at one end (bottomed out) of the adjustment range at a 100 yard zero.
You misunderstand my point. I measured a taper in the rail that should account for approx 30″ of elevation bias (call it cant) at 100 yards.
According to chairgun I need to dial about 16 moa UP to zero at 100 (From 30 yard zero). I previously estimated that at 30 yards reticle is 40moa off optic center. Therefore if I want to rezero at 100 I should still have about over 20 moa of adjustment left before I get to optic center.
The SS 10×42 has a very generous adjustment range. (100MOA). IF you have a scope with less adjustment, then you may be close to bottomed out at 100 yards because you will need to be 20MOA off optic center for a 100 yard zero.. If all this is right my gun shoot to optic center at about 160 yards. Like I said – WOW – this gun will really reach out. If I push this to extremes I should be able to zero the gun (at the far end of this scope adjustment) at a bit over 240 yards
I know the data seems wild but until I get out to the range the math is all i have. I feel like I must be missing something here.
I’m torn between the short or standard and need to decide before the check go out Monday.
Might I suggest going with the Standard?
I’ve owned both Matador in Short and Standard. The Standard was quieter, not that much heavier or longer. I sold it because it didn’t offer any change worth measuring over the Standard.
Just my experience and opinion. Besides, when the time comes to sell it, the Standard will move faster.
I do recommend .25 caliber over .22! It seems to be the coming caliber and it packs a wallop. I have had both and the .25 is my caliber of choice. A bit more expensive for pellets, but I don’t shoot in the thousands of rounds like some of the guys. The .25 holds trajectory better in wind than the .22 caliber.
Regards,
Hoot
This is not right. At 100 yards a 22cal 18.1 grain pellet will drop 28″ that, means everyone would be experiencing their scope dead on at optical center.
Most people are in fact finding themselves at one end (bottomed out) of the adjustment range at a 100 yard zero.
Yes, the rails are the same for all the guns.
Ed
And that scope has what,100MOA?
yes – I read that specification for this is 100 moa. Lets call that +50 / – 50. the elevation turret has 1 full turn adjustment left so maybe 10moa left, meaning my zero is approx -40 moa off center. according to chair gun this rifle will need about +7 moa to rezero at 75 yards (compared to my current zero). This still will put the adjustments in the -33 moa off center. WOW. At this rate I cant imagine ever getting into the plus adjustment range. For my uses a set of the burris signature rings may be in order.
Edit Mon 8:20am
Just measured the rail and I am coming up with .035 taper over 4″. This works out to about 30″ @ 100 yards. This is handy info. I was wondering if I wanted to go with the full .020 adjustment available in the Burris rings, now I can make educated choice. Looks like Ed implemented full cant in the thickness / taper of the rail itself. This means he could manufacture and sell as accessories rails with different taper. Someone should put up a poll – what MOA rails would you like to have as accessory – this would give Ed some guidance on interest and what specific taper would be marketable.
Ed – do all R3 (short – long, .177- .25) use the exact same piccatiny rail?
I’m torn between the short or standard and need to decide before the check go out Monday.
There is nothing unique bout this rifle appearance wise, so not sure a picture will help you decide.
My decision was made this way -> equal power but shorter easier handling (+1) technical accuracy edge (+2). The only downside is reduced shot count but not enough to impact my foreseen use. In my criteria the short has +2 feature advantages but in reality shortness is such a big deal that it easily outweighs shot count making the short my hands down choice.
The only quibble in a rifle of this price is what I might call appearance or finish demerits. I knew this going in so I have no right to bitch and in no way am I disappointed. In the same way there are people that detail their cars to the 9’s, there are guys who obsess on their guns. My best looking guns are the ones that hit their targets. The reality is that you may not get European level fit and finish. Best to accept this before you send the check. Found 3 cosmetic demerits in my sample, a patch on the fore end where it almost feels like there is a very thin scrap of tape under the finish. Very hard to see and I cant get this to photo graph. The second issue is some grain that was not filled before the stock was finished, a couple flecks in finish at the muzzle. Nothing functional.
And that scope has what,100MOA?
Tominct how about some pictures of the short matador.
I’m torn between the short or standard and need to decide before the check go out Monday.
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Mine has 11 rotations total, it has 1/8″ per click (@100 yards) and 72 clicks per rotation.
(72)x(1/8)x(11)=99
Specification has really changed on these scopes. I know this is a “tasco” super sniper, before SWFA picked up the brand. I get a little over 7 revolutions from top to bottom. Each revolution is about 60 clicks broken out across 15 segments.
It is repeatable. Shooting at 29 yards, dialed it up 1 full revolution and point of impact went up about 4.8″. Dropped it 1 full revolution and right back on target. @ 100 yards this is equal to 16″ of elevation per full revolution. Each division is close to an inch so actual results are not far out of calibration.
My assumption was wrong – my 29 yard zero is 22 MOA away from fully bottoming out, not 10 moa. When I dial this scope up 1 full turn my zero should then be about 99 yards. At this point I will I have over 1 full revolution of elevation left before I get to optic center which should be in the vicinity of 140 -150 yards.
I think I will be safe using the full .02 burris adjustment.