Test #2/ 4400 psi fill with new 4500 psi Bottle
Wind finally quite blowing for a while this morning, and I had some air, sooooo= A test was in order. 😀
This is with teh New 4500 PSI Bottle that DMan got in for us. And a good looking Bottle it too!
I had been shooting it at 3800 psi with good results, but wanted to try somthing different with it. I have kept the .257’s Power Wheel on 7 to 8 for a long time. But just for shit’s and giggles I decided to raise the pressure and see what would happen.
I had alread tried this at 8 on te PW, and anything over 3850 and the shot would drop like a rock. 😯 This was starting out at 1020 fps. @ 3850 psi with the NOE 60 grain 20/1 lead tin/ bullet. Now keep in mind that this was quite an improvement over teh Factory AF Bottle filled to 3000 psi. (although I cheated and filled to 3400 several times) which gave me a top velocity of 1020 at the 3400 fill. 3200 would give me 960 and the factory recomemded 3000 psi would clock in at 930. So what would the 4500 psi bottle and pw adjustment do with my short 21″ bbl?
:8: She really started shooting at 4000 psi with the pw pushed up to 10 and then started to drop fps again if pushed any higher. Time to get radical!!!
I tired the full on adjustment maxed out on the PW at 4500 psi adn Nope, dropped like a rock. 😥
I gave her one last try and moved the fill down to 4400 psi. And WOO-H00!!! 😀 Happy Days!!!
I finally got a killer Bell Curve at this setting. Here are the numbers, But First, with out accuracy, numbers are useless! The 257 Talon/Dor started shooting un-blievably consistenty, as in shooing clover leafs at 80 yards. Time and Again. From just under 1/4″ to just under 3/8″ at the 80 yards. with many of the groups only one slightly larger hole and usually one bullet making one touching hole. (there always has to be one, right!) 👿
So now that it can shoot a Squirells eye out at 80 yards, what were the numbers?
Starting with a 4400 psi fill they were:
1037 @ 44 PSI
1051
1061
1060
1045
1041
1033 Ending at 3800 PSI
Man I was and still am Stoked!!! :8: Only 600 PSI, and shooting just under super sonic. Perfect for my LDC’ed Critter Gitter!!!
Thats 75 psi, or 5.17 Bar per shot at a starting 150 FPE and ending at 142.2 FPE
Hell Yeah!!!
KnifeMaker
Knife
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Caboose you get your Bottle?
Hi guys.
Doug just answered my PM.
Thank you.
Assman83 and Caboose212
Thanks for the offer of help.
I sent a PM to Doug and I am awaiting an answer from him.
I wish to buy a big bore valve.
If anyone can help and contact him, I am very grateful.
Yeah! I’m sure someone would be willing to send you the parts from the states. Maybe avoid those taxes and such? Oh- and your English is fine- better than mine!!!
Here the condor alone costs $ 2,500.00. A simple riflescope costs $ 400.00. A good one costs $ 1,500.00.
A carbon fiber tank of 97 cu ft costs $ 1,200.00.
If I want an extra barrel of another caliber I have to pay another $ 500.00.
An original tank of Airforce costs $ 600.00.
If I add the hammer, the valve, the supersear and any other device then the price goes to the stratosphere.
And there is a great difficulty in getting all this equipment, because they are not always available for purchase.
This is the reality of Brazil.
Can you have someone hear send you the stuff?
Well folks, I do not know if I understand exactly everything you said, but I know that various accessories increase the cost of the weapon, even in the USA.
Here the condor alone costs $ 2,500.00. A simple riflescope costs $ 400.00. A good one costs $ 1,500.00.
A carbon fiber tank of 97 cu ft costs $ 1,200.00.
If I want an extra barrel of another caliber I have to pay another $ 500.00.
An original tank of Airforce costs $ 600.00.
If I add the hammer, the valve, the supersear and any other device then the price goes to the stratosphere.
And there is a great difficulty in getting all this equipment, because they are not always available for purchase.
This is the reality of Brazil.
Yeah, I’m looking at a little over $2200 for the Freedom 8, and the 97 cu ft tank, and compressor… Of course, for now that will feed the MRod, which isn’t done being built yet (soon though)… Not sure who’s going to machine my extrusion(s) either… and that’s going to be a pretty penny. I’ve already bought the Edge grip and associated screws and such, one of Doug’s valves, the 4500 psi tank, trigger parts, a super sear from AOA, a WOKGuard (w/o the AR grip adapter), and I still need a barrel, and scope. None of this is including all the custom work I’m going to do to the frame!! 👿 Oh, almost forgot: ALL THE CASTING EQUIPMENT… I’ve got a press, but now I need to find a sizing die, after I slug the bore… Jeeze. Here I thought I was almost done!! 🙄
Ouch, I hear you brother, it would be along time coming, to save up that much, just to start up.
Nice set up, and we have followed your countries air gunners innovation for years and lusted after your products. And as Maw says your English is fine, but again, it is your ingenuity that keeps us interested in such posts from Latin American shooters.
Some thoughts from a air gun crank:
While this regulated set up, and any other quite frankly would not work with a Condor pushing 4400 out of a 4500 bottle, if it can be attached to the MRod bottle conversion that MarmotMilitia is apparently ready to start selling then it makes an entirely different gun out of the MRod.
Problem is the cost as it is with any of this stuff we do as air gun cranks.
With a $500 Mrod, a $200 tank, and $300 for bits and pieces of a bottle adapter and this regulator, your within a couple sawbuscks of AOA’s sale price for a regulated Cricket or used FX Royale off the Yellow.
For Bean counters it does not pencil out, for economically twisted gun cranks it makes all the sence in the world.
A slug shooting Condor is not any better on the wallet.
I want to do my set up with a Condor SS at $700 a hit, then take this $200 bottle and a valve and hammer from Doug at perhaps $300 , put it in a Maddog $230 stock, add a SWFA Sniper scope to get enough elevation and a set of Burris insert rings for $350. Then there is there matter of air and bullets, I sold my Shoebox Freedom 8 and all my tanks, so if I do this again it will depend on if I have to spend $1500 to make my own air and bullets or pay whatever ransom the local welding shop wants to hit me with for a N set up, if they offer such a animal and I still have to buy a used 45 minute or 60 minute tank and bullet molds to feed the thing at my range.
Which is why I decided to move back to Burns Oregon instead of building a house here in the 3rd world. Harney county, Burns is the county seat, is a economically depressed area, and has been forever, population density 1 person per square mile and no industry so kids move 15 minutes after high school graduation. As a result houses start at $25,000. Add to the cost of the house in the middle of the high desert, a straight jacket for what will become a very beautiful socially deprived Asian wife and yeah I can make it work by traveling 130 miles to Bend to buy groceries once a month, get a hotel room and go honky tonking on the town in an attempt to keep her from chewing out of the above mentioned straight jacket. 😛
Like I said, just some thoughts.
You are sure.
I use this valve not for power but for consistency.
It is set to shoot with 2000 psi. With the tank loaded with 4500 psi I can give 130 good shots with JSB pellets 15 grains – 900 fps.
To my condor big bore (if I ever get to complete this project) I plan to use this tank or another one of 250 bar (3600 psi) directly without regulated valve. I hope Doug sells me the valve that he manufactures.
Apart from the difficulties here in Brazil that I commented above, there is the problem of the high cost of taxes. To give you an idea, Condor you pay around US$ 500.00, here in Brazil it costs US$ 2,500.00.
Your english is very good, you are well understood, Knife he’s is running 4500 psi tank input, and up to 700-3600 output, I would be satisfied around 3400, with the 257 valve, you would want to go higher, due to the difference in valve spring tension, mine is a 25 valve. The problem lies in the size of the valve -regulator, I doubt it can handle the volume we are putting thru it.
But how much psi can it take for the in-put side? We need at least 4500 psi before lock up. 😉
Knife
Quick question though: How is that valve, since you’re probably the only one on this forum that has one!! How easy is it to use? How much length does it add to the tank? Are the threads for the gauges standard 1/8 NPT? AND WHY DOES IT HAVE TWO GAUGES?! 😯
One More thing- I don’t think your stock set up is THAT ugly, just not what I want for my rifle!! Maybe if you paint it all black it wouldn’t look so bad :rofl: It looks as if it does work well though!!
Firstly I apologize for my poor english.
I fully agree with everything you said. As I said before it was just a suggestion.
One problem we have in Brazil is the lack of access to original and quality products. There isn’t someone who can manufacture a product similar to what you find in the U.S..
Right now I want to turn my condor a big bore and I am finding great difficulty to get the valve. And the worst is that the import of the barrel is extremely bureaucratic and difficult.
I also agree that I must honor the national product, but here the situation is quite different from yours.
This is a regulated valve. It can be adjusted between 50 – 250 bar (700-3600 psi). Very simple to make that adjustment. All the threads are the same the Airforce. One gauge is for the tank pressure and the other to the outlet pressure. It adds 5 cm to the length of tank(about 2 “).
Just a suggestion, please.
If the bottle is chinese, why not a chinese valve?
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Pcp-AirForce-Condor-Constant-pressure-valve-High-pressure-valve-Valve-A-body-double-table-constant-pressure/1335337020.html
I use one and it works good.
rmc1954: There’s a lot of reasons why I wouldn’t want to use that valve (for my .257!). Number one, the valves designed here, and elsewhere are DESIGNED to be high flow, power valves. To launch heavier projectiles further, faster. That valve looks good (I may pick one up for my .30 talon), but it’s made as a generic replacement for the standard valve. It is also because I want to put money back into the guys here in the States. People like doug and others have spent a lot of time, and money developing valves and other parts to further our rifles. I want them to have my money. Not a company thousands of miles away who probably copied someone else’s work. I know, I know, these 4500 psi tanks are made in China… I get that- but so are a lot of other company’s tanks. It’s today’s market. But our boys have busted their asses producing these valves and parts, and I would like to keep them in business. I also know that I bought a raw extrusion of the AF frame to do what I want with from China (three in fact!), however, if AF doesn’t see selling these separately to folks like us who like to tinker as another way to make money, well that’s just another bad business move on their part… Same thing with not offering a carbon fiber 4500 psi tank… It’s just bad business.
Quick question though: How is that valve, since you’re probably the only one on this forum that has one!! How easy is it to use? How much length does it add to the tank? Are the threads for the gauges standard 1/8 NPT? AND WHY DOES IT HAVE TWO GAUGES?! 😯
One More thing- I don’t think your stock set up is THAT ugly, just not what I want for my rifle!! Maybe if you paint it all black it wouldn’t look so bad :rofl: It looks as if it does work well though!!
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Wow, thats great Knife! Congrats to you and Dman too!
Damn, I am gonna want one of those too! I will have to wait and see how far along I am with my project at the time orders start to get rolling real serious. I am doing this by the seat of my pants right at the momoent! 🙄
Man, this whole .257 cast thing is really the ground floor of a whole new movement…. Look where this thing is headed… got dyotat valve , tj barrel, this 4500 tank , heavier hitting hammer components and now we are seeing these new extrusions coming to market! Soon there’s gonna be an overnight sensation of small air arms companies offering their spin on inline HPA extruded bullet blasters! Similar to the AR upper reciever markets.
I just hope that somebody doesnt get too stupid and brings undue attention to this trendy sport of ours!
Seeing all rhose numbers and figures for the different weight cast bullets, yeah a faster twist is in order but 1-10 is probably just on the edge with what you are seeing at 4500 psi. I can’t help but wonder if you gonna get them to spool up AND flying forward fast enough with the 1-10. Maybe someone is gonna have to get a mandrel made up and experiement with a 1-12? Cedric had mentiined it once or twice before but nobody seemed to take much notice. Seemed like good idea for a group buy. Hell you get enough interest I suppose ya could group buy a kit and have a build party/workshop!
GOOD LOOKING OUT DMAN ON THOSE BOTTLES, GREAT RESULTS KNIFE, I AM STOKED TO HEAR YOUR RESULTS!
It is very encouraging to know that this is so close within my reach! Cant wait till Im 100% official and my buikd is off the drawing board and up to testing!