Using a condor on MEDIUM power; Can it be done?
Hello guys, a good friend of mine recently purchased a .22 cal. condor, and even tho the rifle performs well at high power, filling to 2800psi, PW at 10, shooting barracudas with accuracy for about 25 shots, my friend would like to also use the rifle on medium power for long range plinking, bird hunting, etc. His idea is to shoot CPs (or similar weight pellets), at arround 950fps.
He fills to 2800psi, sets the PW at arround 5 and starts shooting, first 10 shots or so are wonderfull, but then power begins to go up, and accuracy goes out the window, eventually (a few shots later) even with the PW set at zero, all shots are going supersonic! and he cant hit anything.
Is there a way to use a condor for consistently shooting at medium power, like CPs in the 900fps range?
All Replies
Eh hmm, I am a little confused here, why in the hell did your buddy order a condor if he wanted to plink at low fps? EVERYTHING about the condor is tuned for power, and I have yet to read a single thing about the gun that suggests otherwise.
So what if you cant shoot CP’s, just use a kodiak and ta da, no more problems. Or, I suppose you could always shoot at 3000-2800. Or maybe at 500psi?
If noise is a problem, why not get a shroud?
Sorry, but I just got my condor on saturday and it shoots like a god damn dream. Literally hole in hole at 30yds. Not to mention some of the most impressive shot strings that I think I will ever see. (I will be posting those along with targets soon) As a result I am having a hard time dealing with someone being unhappy with one…
Again, really confused as to why he bought a condor if he wanted a gun to shoot CP’s circa 600fps. Oh yeah, and remember that part about the HIGH FLOW VALVE?
Is that really what TG and PA said? I know that TG is no doubt guilty, but let’s just check, shall we?
“You cannot expect to shoot an Eun Jin pellet at 65 foot-pounds on shot No. 1 and then dial down to 25 foot-pounds for shot No. 2 with a Crosman Premier. The rifle doesn’t work that way. Both types of shots are possible, but you must be in the right part of the power curve (pressure left in the tank) and have the power wheel set at the right place to get the performance you desire.”
http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/05/airforce-condor-part-3-filling-gun.html
Seems to me it is capable, just not the way you’re trying to do it. I have a buddy with ‘the ultimate Condor package’. It came with a microflow tank which does just fine with normal weight pellets, at least Mike is very happy with it. As I understand it, the Condor is really all about power. The heavier spring and hammer skew things a lot, but the hot rodded valve really puts you behind it if the goal is midrange performance.
Anyway, I know it’s not a widely held opinion around here, but it’s just possible TG told the truth this time?
Doug Owen
Benzin, now that your friend has made the decision to drop more cash, I highly recommend the 12″ barrel and SS endcap over the standard valve tank. I LOVE my condor with the 12″ barrel in SS size.
He should easily be able to dial it down to around 750 fps (assuming it’s a .22) with the 12 incher which will still provide somewhere around 28-30 fpe which in my experience, will easily kill most anything you will typically be shooting with an airgun anyway and with proper shot placement…even some things that you maybe shouldn’t shoot.
I just think your friend would get more utility out of this setup over just sticking a standard valved tank on his condor, as long as he doesn’t mind a re-zero each time.
Thanks again for your reply.
You are correct asserting that my friend got his rifle from a pyramyd reseller. In all honesty, this “dealer” is nothing more than a smuggler for hard to import things. But its kinda hard to get quality airguns in this country. There is another dealer, but is very expensive, and the condors they have in stock are still old-valve models, wich dont work even at high power. (i outha know, i had one from them).
As for fixing the problem, is not that im “complaining”, just trying to find my friend a solution that doesnt involve spending heavy bucks.
But ne way hes allready decided to get a Talon tank, to use for mid power, and keep the hi flo tank for high power hunting.
As for me being a good friend by helping out my buddy, i appreciate your words, im just doing what others have done for me. For example, many people in this forum helped me a TON when i had my nightmaere expeience with the old-valve condor i had (woudnt shoot at even 2000psi!). So im glad to help a friend like others have helped me.
Thanks for all your help guys! ill let you know how the birdie works with the talon tank.
Benzin, sucks that your buddy didn’t get his free CO2 adapter, it really makes the condor a whole different gun. Sounds to me like the outfit he bought it from is resaler through pyrimid? The kind that is not a factory authorized dealer, but drop ships whatever you order via pyramid. I would personally complain to pyramid about the missing CO2 adapter and advise your friend to buy from a reputable dealer. Many will and do ship overseas.
I think you and your friend will find your answer within the suggestions already given to you by others in this post; Play with your top hat to achieve the FPS (within reason) that you are looking for and you will be happy. An allen wrench and a set of feeler gauges is all that it takes.
I guess your opinion of having to adjust this and that on the gun to achieve your goal is based on your experience of having to tinker with things in other hobbies you may have. I always have to adjust/calibrate/re-jet/tune/blow-up/rebuild my cars and motorcycles to get them to perform optimally for each situation I use them in, so adjusting something as simple as one part on a gun is almost comical. Again, it’s all relative to your experience, which unfortunately also dictates your expectations.
On fill pressure, my Condor shoots great with a 3,000 psi charge. Compared to a 2,800 PSI charge, the POI does shift a little, but only by about 1/2″ to 3/4″ (low) at 50 yds. for the first three shots or so. I guess it depends what yard stick your friend is grading his condor by………….even a 1″ POI shift at fifty yards is completely reasonable for a hunting arm.
In the real world of hunting vs. measuring groups with a caliper it does just fine being that Condors shoot in what I would refer to as “minute of rabbit” better and longer than most guns out there, and the most impressive thing about these guns is that you get around twenty shots like that in the field. No other gun will give you that at this power level.
Please don’t take this as anything but a helpful suggestion, but I see that your friend has two choices;
1. Keep wishing the gun met his expectations (even if based on the printed word of others) and complainging about it,
or
2. Tinker………and find airgunning nirvana.
May I suggest item 2.?
Good luck and you must be pretty good friend to help a buddy this much.
Black Sabot:
Thanks for your reply. My friend got his rifle new, from a pyramydair re-distributor called “co2airguns”. He bought it about 1 month ago.
I know about the offer of a free co2adapter, but this store (co2airguns) probably “kept” it. He couldnt get it directly from pyramydair because they dont send stuff to other countries.
As for not being able to “do everything” with a singe rifle, i must disagree with you on that. I have a sumatra 2500, and it can reliably and consistently spit out crowmagnums at 750fps (and faster of course), and also send heavy eunjin pointed pellets at 1000fps. And it can do all this right out of the box. Without getting extra bottles, co2adapters, special “tune ups” or modifications or anything. All i have to do is turn the power weel up or down.
You see, i have no problem with condors working ok at 2800 or 2700psi instead of 3000, and i can understand that because of the way its designed, it might not be consistent when used at mid~low power, they are still good guns. What really pisses me off, is the manufacturer and its supporters (like tom gaylord) lying about it! Why not just say the truth, that fill presure is 2800 instead of 3000, and that if you want a high power rifle you should get the condor, or if you want a medium power one you should get a TalonSS, instead of lying that the condor can do both?
In other words, im shure my pal (the owner of the gun) would be OK in getting another tank, or co2adaptor or extra barrels or whatever to use the gun on mid power, if someone had told him he would have to do that, what probably makes him mad (it shure makes ME mad), is that AF, gaylord and some other so-called “reviews” lie to you and tell you you are getting a gun that can do all that. Without telling you youre gonna have to spend more money to do it.
Benzin; Did your friend buy his condor new? He should have gotten the CO2 adapter with it for free if it was bought fairly recently.
CO2 really is the best and most practical way to plink at lower velocities with a condor. After the initial purchase of a 12 oz. tank (the 20 oz tanks are way too akward) of around $22-24 a fill at the local paintball shop is around $3.00. That’s alot of practicality for under $30.00!!!
Or he can order a 12″ barrel and SS endcap and shoot his “Condor SS” at very reasonable velocities. Each barrell change will require a re-zero, but that just means more shooting, right!? I do both and as much as I like my condor in “ss” form, it is alot easier to just screw on the CO2 tank, step out into the patio and plink off my shooting table.
Your friend may have tainted his real world requirements for a PCP with the ever present self induced need for “MORE POWER”. It happens to most of us from time to time and I have been guilty of it myself, as can be plainly seen in my garage with a restoration of a ’67 pontiac that ended up having a 600+ hp Ram Air III 455 stuffed into it’s engine compartment! Can it be driven to the store on weekends? Sure, but it would rather be balls-out with the ass stepping out into the next lane, it just runs better that way. One thing that you cannot get around, to the point that it is self evident is that “All mechanical solutions to a problem are nothing more than a well planned compromise.” (Go ahead and quote me on that.)
On a final note to any shooter, powder or air, that thinks that he can “do it all with one gun”, he will never be happy as his setup will never be more than just a compromise to suit two different applications -or as I refer to it “self specified mediocrity” (and another one). I would not expect my ’67 to do well in slow city traffic or my wife’s Stratus to run the quarter mile in the mid 12’s either. Nor would I expect my 7mm Rem Mag to make much of a varmint gun, nor would I expect my .223 contender to take elk at 450 yards. I could use a 30.06 for both by using .223 accelorators, but I would not be as happy or well equipped for either task with just one gun. I only use these as extreme examples to make a point clearly, but my Condor, with an extra 12″ barrel and a CO2 adapter as compared to my powder burners or cars, well it’s about as adaptable as any mechanical solution can get. Comparitively, It’s a virtual swiss army knife!!!
In fact, I think your post has inspired me to screw on my CO2 tank and go plink a little bit. Thanks.
Funny thing is my AA 410 and Career also work best when filled to 2800psi.
Really don’t think there are many here complaining anymore about the fill pressures on their Condors. Sure optimum might not be 3000psi for the Condor but that is true for most PCP’s.
Paul did a good job on reviewing the Condor and while I talked to him he gave me no reason to doubt him when he told me he was limited as to his fill pressure.
Are you aware there is no problem filling the New Condors to 3k psi?
Paul was testing a new Condor. Filling to 3k psi is no longer a problem.
What is clear is he did state what he was doing and did not make any other claims to the fact.
Dear WOK, You might recall i was probably one of the first (if not the very first) guy who got one of the new valves, directly from AF for the condor i had, and this one (my friend´s) is brand new, and also has the new valve.
And i agree, it is a HUGE improvement over the old valve, but i think that it still doesnt work perfectly when filled to 3000psi, take a look at the chart in this very forum, the one with a stock hammer weight (yellow one)
http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=286
You can see velocity starting at a mere 850fps, and then climing to as high as 1090 fps, thats a spread of about 240fps! so i must respectfully disagree with you saying that the new condors work ok at 3000psi. Not out of the box at least.
Why do most guys here still fill theirs to 2700, 2800, and some to even 2600 if 3000 works ok?
As for paul´s review, i agree with you, in that he didnt lie about anything, and i never said he did, but i find it “odd” that he just “accidentally” (or not) left out a part of the test that would have looked bad for the rifle. and he did it because “he dint want to mess with the settings on the compresor”??? (at least thats what he sais on the video).
Ben,
Are you aware there is no problem filling the New Condors to 3k psi?
Paul was testing a new Condor. Filling to 3k psi is no longer a problem.
What is clear is he did state what he was doing and did not make any other claims to the fact.
stock i never moved it
Interesting, maybe its a top hat issue on this one?
whats the th opening on yours?
I can atest that is all the pressure he had available to him for testing at the time. I had talked to him before he filmed and we talked about the fill pressure and his video. He just did not have 3k psi to pull from. Paul is a good guy and represented the gun fairly.
Gaylord on the other hand….. 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄
Oh cmon WOK!, you cant really belive that. I dont mean to speak bad of that guy (capello) as i dont even know him. But for chirst sake, dont you think that it is way too convenient, that he coudnt fill the rifle to 3000psi, “not” because it would have produced bad results, but because “he dint have the equipment to do it”????
Cmon! you telling me that this men whoi understand is a real pro in airgun related stuff, dint have a freaking HAND PUMP at hand???
im sorry, but i just cant belive that.
i keep the power wheel at 5 and just keep shooting like that i dont move the wheel at all and i get shots that are around the same fps. if i move the power wheel from 5 to 10 my POI does not change it stays the same.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Skippy,
Just a guess on my part but I’d venture that the Condor is this gentleman’s first high power PCP and he was simply caught off guard by the power available.
Seeing as most other airguns, ssp, co2, springer, obtain their advertised velocities with the lightest pellets possible he was probably expecting to keep a middleweight pellet like the cp subsonic without a problem. Probably didn’t expect even the heaviest pellets to be near the speed of sound.
Sounds to me like he got a good shootin’ gun and a little more than he bargained for/expected.