virgin glock 17
well wife could prove we have been in CA long enough, so while i was in denmark she went and bought us a glock 17 which is full size 9mm for those not into the glock models i know i wasnt 3 months ago
we chose 9mm for several reasons
1 ammo is pretty cheap, compared to the larger calibers
2 grip is smaller than larger calibers, wife has very small hands and therefor has trouble holding pistols with fat grips
3 we are both inexperienced with handguns, and the 9mm is not as intimidating as the larger more powerfull.
glock was the choise when we asked around…we (I) wanted something reliabel, easy….glock certainly fits the bill
went to the range to rent one….and we liked it….also tried an XD40(i forget the makers namer ), what a pice of crap compared to the glock, might have been just that one, old and worn out rental….but it kept jamming up constantly….and we saw no accuracy with it.
any back to the glock….yesterday was the first time we had it out…i went to wallmart and grabbed a box of all the different ammo they had (blaser, remington, winchester)
and off to the range after she dropped her mom off at the airport….very excited, i loaded the mags with the plastic loader that came with the gun…ohh man when we rented that was not given to us and the 9th and 10th round was a thumb buster to get into the magazine, with the speed loader it was a breese, laid the 2 mags and pistol on the range table and told wife to give it a go
blam 1 shot at 12 feet right in the black….then she was shooting low for the next 3-4 shots and then it failed to eject…cleared the chamber, and sent her on the way….then it jammed, cleared it…2 more shots and it did it again…i wrote it off to that the gun is brand new and needed to settle in, or maybe the cheap ammo. more on that later….
next mag and it was my turn, 10 shots later which was over pretty fast, about 20 seconds keeping in line with the 2 seconds the range requires between shots for the most….2 hit outside in the 8 ring….rest was 9 and 10 ringers….no misfeeds no malfucktions
wifes turn, and it started to fuck up again (or rather she did) one shell failed to eject and turned around and the next cartridge actually got pushed into it….then it would only feed the round half, lige the casing edge got caught on something…..she gave up….i then took the mags she had been using, and filled it and fired 10 rounds….working perfectly, and then the next mag to eliminate that its not the mags fault.
gun is working just fine, its human error at fault here
when i was shooting it it was doing fine, when she was shooting it…not so….i told her to change grip, try to stiffen her arms a little more or a little less trying to see what was causing it….turns out sloppy wrists/arms as soon as she locked her elbows it was fine…not good for accuracy and the carteledge in her arms….but hey she now knew what was going wrong…and got shooting just fine….well except that after i told her not to let go of the trigger all the way she twice double rapid fired, resulting in range master complaining, but it was a fair mistake and he understood…funny enough too booths over theres was some serious rapid firing going on…like 10 shots in 3 secs…which the range master never said anything about….however when i was shooting with 2 second intervals he told me slow it down just a bit….must have been cops or something that was rapid firing…those bastards get away with everything
my self found that when i did what the instructor had told me i would shoot way low….as soon as i loosened up and got comfortable i was shooting right where i was aiming, but our range hour(about 90 minutes) was up. i had bought 300 rounds…there was 75 left when we went home hehe
shooting handguns surely is something totally different, very challinging i think, im used to be very accurate with my airgun rifles….and the find that i have trouble with a simple 9mm at 12-15 feet lol shooting groups of several inches, but man it is fun
vid is heavily edited !
ohh man i love shooting ! gonna be a busy fall.
this little fella is moving in on saturday, yay !!!!
can someone recomend a pair of good shooting glasses for a guy with glasses ? range master was not entirely ok with my regular narrow glasses but said it was for my own safety so he wouldnt keep me from shooting…but then agian a more anal range master might say no alltogether.
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The S&W 686 is an L-Frame and it’s made for both male and female, and a grip change can make it work great for big hand guys. I to looked at the Taurus .357 and I went with the Smith do to the many options and it was widely used in target shoot matches.
Cyg,
You need to start reloading. You can then choose the load you want and you can make some custom ammo for your wife to shoot.
Also if you are thinking of a revolver, remember a .357 can shoot .38 loads as well.
I reloaded thousands of rounds and while the hot loads make a big bang a softer load will be much more pleasant day at the range.
It only reduces the trigger weight, it doesnt reduce the length of pull at all. It smooths it out a bit and makes it easier to do a nice, smooth pull.
Thats exactly right, in the end it will be what works for her. Just dont let her get frustrated and give up. The 22 conversion will let her enjoy the learning curve allot more Im sure.
well a lighter trigger might be easier for her to pull that the somewhat stiff “first” stage its got now….but i will give it some time…she has read suggestions, and that has given her some ideas on what to work on….
the 686 6″ in .357 is freaking awesome ! i rented it….and it was a tackdriver….the glock was all over the target….the SW was in the black every single shot….and wife really enjoyed the mild .38SP, she mention something inbetween the 38SP and .357 mag would be ok….i figure that where the .44sp is….and i can get to shoot te 44mag rounds for some big bore fun hehe
the taurus is made in brasil, and is beefier, SW is made in the US bit has a skinnier frame…and im not so sure that made in the US means much.
I have a S&W 686 6″ and that thing is a shooter and one of my best powder burner handguns. It has a free99 trigger job that really made it shine and added a 2x scope with grips 😀
It only reduces the trigger weight, it doesnt reduce the length of pull at all. It smooths it out a bit and makes it easier to do a nice, smooth pull.
Thats exactly right, in the end it will be what works for her. Just dont let her get frustrated and give up. The 22 conversion will let her enjoy the learning curve allot more Im sure.
SteveinLA mailed me some pictures of a glock hold where the thumbs are toughing the slide on the side, im not sure i got the curage for that, but one question is wont that reduce the slides movement ?
also Steve suggested holding a couple of degrees left
we had the g17 out today just to hold and see whats comfy for her, if she puts it dead middle in the webbing of her hand between index finger and thumb she can only barely reach the trigger with ethe tip of her finger…it might work if we get one of them trigger mods that lowers the pull ….when she holds it slightly more into the thumb webbing she can actually reach trigger just fine.
camera angles are hard to do safely, in those small booths(well what thet rangemaster would call safely…theres no way of getting away with an angle from the front for example…that gotta wait till we get out somewhere in nature to plink away, and camcorder can be placed on tripod or something so no person is in front of the firing line), what kind of angles are we looking for here ? i might be able to rig something with the gorilla pod on the table or wall divider. ammo is ammo….not cheap not the worst in 9mm…..im hoping the 22 kit i ordered will help her with the basics as theres not as much to “fear” in 22 with less than 1/3 the power, and much less projectile mass.
if your just interested in how she grips the pistol i can snap some video or pictures of that tomorrow evening.
well i am looking for a pistol….i was sort of hot on the sw 629 in .44mag, where should would be able to shoot 44sp….but every body in the store was no no no get a ruger much more beefy…but they are freaking 7.5″ long…might help controlling the power of .44mag, but its so freaking heavy too….the 629 appealed to me in looks and all, and then i saw the taurus in a grey’ish version, with double lockup 6.5″ beefier than the sw629, and still shoots both 44mag and 44sp, so fine for range and hunting, and theres a factory original weaver rail available as well….which is nice since in like technology and would like to stuff a reddot on it
to me its seems like SW has best trigger but frame might not be the best for hot loads….but am i gonna do hot loads ?
Ruger is best durability and will last several generations…is that really needed ?
taurus is the underdog, cheap, grip was not as nice as the others, but double lock up, good for hot loads, same lenght as SW, scope rail has the possibilty of moving because of the way its mounted through the wented ribs on the barrel, and its ported….which i figure means fouling of the sights, whether open, scope or reddot because of the gasses released upwards
accuracy….i dont know….im going insane here….are we talking major differences or minor….trigger are we talking about modding a tad to get the taurus as nice as the SW….should i just drop the idea of .44mag and go with a 686 6″ .357 mag ? and let wife shoot the 38sp….she was dead accurate with that gun
but .357 is just about same as 9mm, just more powerfull…would be nice with something a little bigger…but then comes the cost of ammo as well
so many questions….think im gonna concentrate on getting her shooting the glock….i got a bunch of .22lr ammo just waiting for the .22 kit to arrive, and i hope that will give her time to get nice and comfy with the .22 and then we can move up again to 9mm
theres an optimum way of holding the glock…as i mentioned earlier when i did what the instructor told me im all over the place….when i do my own thing, im actually hitting what im shooting for….maybe she just needs to find her own thing with her small hands….where theres a will theres a way…and all of your suggestions have really given her something to think about, as she is now following this thread as well, and thanks to those people who have pm’ed me with tips we greatly apreciate it !
over and out
Cygnus X what range did you shot at ? It looks like they need to turn down the ventalation system some to help keep the target still. Both your groups would have been a little better with the right conditions. Back in the late 80’s I shot action pistol matches and it was big time fun, but also it cost alot to do. You both may want to look into 45 auto’s and see what will happen 😀
Its really a problem with the Glock and I would ASSume other polymer framed firearms. While there is absolutely nothing wrong with the “plastic” framed guns the frames do flex when fired where a metal frame would not. A limp hold only amplifies this action and thus wastes all the energy used to normally cycle the gun.
Auto loading guns use the recoil energy to cycle the action. If you hold the gun with a limp wrist for example, your arms absorb some of the recoil which may cause the gun to not cycle properly.
I shot my dads 1911 .45 for the first time last weekend. It took me about 100 rounds to stop anticipating the shot. If anyone lives in the LA area, the Angeles Shooting range is where I went, it is a very nice range. There was a guy a few benches away from me that was shooting some HUGE revolver, the shock wave would throw my shot off, lol. I think it was a .45 long colt.
What I don’t understand is how holding the gun improperly will case it to jam? Or was it just breaking in?
Its hard to tell as we only see her “grip” from the one angle but it looks like all her problems are due to that. She doesnt have much actually behind the gun and her off hand looks more like she trying to push sideways into her other palm. Have her give the push/pull modified Weaver a chance. I have pretty small hands for a guy and I find the modified Weaver helps allot with that. If she cant get a solid lock on the Glock frame and still be able to get her finger on the trigger it might just be to big for her. The Glock is meant for a double stack clip and since you are in Cali and limited to a 10 shot clip you dont need all that extra room in the mag area. Your final solution might be the revolver you mentioned or a gun that only uses a single stack clip, if they still make one of those ).
She definitely needs to work on her anticipation. Some dry fire practice or even that 22 conversion you mentioned should help with that. At one point you print out that she thought the gun was going to go off at that first stage indent. Ideally she needs to work on pulling slowly and smoothly past that and get it out of her mind when the gun is actually going to go off. Her concentration should be on the target picture and the movement of her finger. I would put breathing techniques after those two.
These are just some Joe Smoe insights though. Im sure there are some well written guides as well as videos available to you. I really like that you are recording her shooting. It should help her allot, its just to bad you cant get some footage from other angles.
Hey Steve,
This may be an opportune time to consider doing a tutorial if you can spare the time. Cygy of course, can take care of the video part. I bet he would be happy to supply the ammo too. 😉
Cyg; check your PM’s.
10 seconds from the end you’ll notice that she “pushed” the gun when she pulled the trigger on an empty chamber. She’s definately trying to anticipate the shot and control the recoil, thats why her shot are going low.
John
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reloading….thats a whole new can of worms….
spit it out how much for a desent setup ?,
how do i capture casings at indoor ranges ? they are all over the place mixed in with other peoples and what not !
saw a youtube wideo of a dillon press, that basicly did everything except pulling the handle he did 50 38 speciels in under 3 minutes…granted he prolly used a long time prepping the machine, clean casings etc….
im definatly thinking revolver….taurus is allmost 300 bucks cheaper at about 800 for the 686 with 6″ barrel…..taurus is about 500 bucks….ruger i havent even looked at
whats the hunting laws in CA….is .357 ok for pig/deer hunting….or is a 44 mag needed ? i found one webpage for one of those shooting farms, and the owner only approved of the 44 mag…hmmm where the link now…i know everything can kill hey i killed a 61 pound pig….and a dude from the AA forum took a nearly 150 pound pig with a 45 fpe .22 kodiak slinging airgun…..
.357 mag is about 600 fpe….44mag is about 750 in regular off the shelf loads…theres probably both +p and +p+ loads that will really get thing moving….was out buying more 9mm ammo….wallmart 250 rem umc rounds 45 bucks….200 winchester 39 bucks…plus tax and all nearly 100 bucks….there soon not going to be more money left for other guns if i keep this up…..
heads up to the people looking at sportsman depot…couple of days i ordered a advantage arms .22 convertion kit and 2 exta mags for 3 mags in total, the kit was 241$…..then that order got cancelled….i called them and the said it was a mistake as it was never in stock….hmmmm….then i got a mial 5 minutes later saying they just got on in….but now the price was 270 bucks !!! damn cheaters….if it was not because those kits are so darn hard to come by….the factory says 6 weeks backorder….most stores has a waiting list allmost and says 6-10 weeks wait….i can see why they are so popular….with the price of 9mm ammo….and that just gets worse with 44mag lol…..so why do i so badly want one…im not sure…but its fascinating