WTF happened JSB ??
I´ve now read numerous posts about the current state of the JSB pellets in different Forums around the Globe and the consensus seems to be the same regardless the country : Newer batches of JSB suck! It seems to hold true regardless the caliber and i know that my 18gr Heavies were getting worse but i also thought the sub-par quality isn´t as much of a concern in bigger calibers. I was very wrong…
I opened two new tins of JSB King´s and two new tins of FX pellets,which are made by JSB but are a subject for an extra QC – exactly like AA & EdGun pellets are supposed to be. Those two tins of JSB´s included at least 30% of pellets with visible damage or deform on them. I didn´t even need to check them closely or anything to see deformed skirts etc. Not so with the FX pellets.
This made me want to check how much better/worse the FX pellets would perform right out of the box. I didn´t sort them or checked them BUT i did that with the JSB´s and removed those pellets that had damage on them that could easily be seen. I had to throw away at least 100 pellets from a 350 tin… Not good!
Well – i did some testing and the FX´s outshot the JSB every time. I tested them at 50m/55 yards in 10 shot groupings since that gives much better picture of the accuracy than 3-5 “lucky” shots. The difference was huge ! You can´t see it in these pics really due the awkward angle but those FX´s shot much smaller groups the smallest being 8mm C/C while the smallest JSB group was around 11.5mm C/C.
I didn´t have the best possible weather due the winds and a bit rain but this gives you a clear picture of what´s going on …
The groups on the left were those with JSB´s and those on your right were shot with FX´s. The last FX group got a flier that was caused due operator error and has nothing to do with the pellets. So does the middle one and if it wasn´t for that one damned shout out of that group it woulda,coulda,shoulda been the best 10 shot group i´ve ever shot with an air-rifle at 50 meters.
All the shooting was done using Bipods (GB Atlas clones,of course) and without a bag under a rear stock. Like said that´s where i keep my left forearm. I don´t like no bags there … 😆
All Replies
Wingman…question for you. What are the actual measurement that you seem from .25 cal tins? I’m sure they are not all 6.35. What is the range that you have flung come out of most tins. Also, what does your barrel prefer? And what does Ed say is the perfect size pellet for the R3 .25?
I think you should make your decision now, not later, once US guys will get their R3Ms you will see that they will be happy & satisfied with it,
but please take an advice from me (actually not me our brother W NZ) before even shot the gun put some moly grease on the multi shot breech parts all, i really can there is no difference between my M-Rod bolt and this new R3M, it is very easy and smooth after greasing parts….
I also own both. I also like them both but for different reasons. Both are highly accurate rifles but i have to put the notch for finish/fitment/function for Cricket. Cricket lacks the raw finish and feel of an handmade piece though since it being produced in much higher quantities than the EdGun and that in a modern plant rather than in a garage in the Russian outback. That fact gives any EdGun a soul if you like and makes you want to iron out some of the rough edges to make it to your own. I don´t know if anyone gets what i mean but anyway.
The Cricket also needs some TLC – as does almost any gun made – so it isn´t immune to that but the newer batches seem to have better finish in the breech and while not buttery smooth , in stock form , it can be made like that with very little work. There´s a benefit having multi-million dollar company (CZ) behind the production but that part kills the “soul” it could´ve had.
Why do i say biased? You’re an NZ EdGun importer. There has not been one thing in any of your reviews ( pellets, the rifles) saying one bad thing about anything Ed. Everything’s excellent-beyond that. We both know that’s far from the truth. As an example – the new MS is going to make many buyers disappointed with it’s rough, notchy action. Guaranteed. The action is a joke and you being an expert on things know that. There’s no grease in the world to make it smooth-moly or not.
These guns have their flaws – some bigger than others. As an expert on the field you should be well aware of them yet you speak nothing but the gospel of the excellency of the EdGun . Like said -biased.
Superb shooting nevertheless.
Absolutely none taken my Swedish Brother..
I understand your accusations and most are because you dont know me, I wrote Edgun reviews long before Ed asked me to be his NZ agent..
I have many other PCP reviews and they all follow the same positive style of documenting, If a PCP is a piece of shit I wouldnt bother even reviewing it.
My opinion is my opinion and yes I am a true fan of Edgun.
If I had a Cricket I would speak the same truthful non biased opinion about it too. Every PCP has its weak points but my with my right ups I try to point out the positive aspects and provide fixes for the negative ones. Im not about to bag any ones product, Eds or anyone else’s. There are just too many “sheep” ready to just on the I hate (Enter your choice of PCP here) band wagon without even knowing anything about the actual item and that just damages businesses.
Yes if I pull any pcp apart I am going to find the good and the bad and there is still much you dont know about the new R3M action.
Mine is not rough.. its is very smooth, but of coarse it feels much different and more awkward to cock compared to my single shot which is now just an extension to my body..
As an engineer myself there is much I would have done different but that goes for all the PCPs I’ve owned.
You say the like all pcps the Edgun has flaws, indeed they do but like all thing mechanical they can be fixed.. this is where I focus my writings.. not on the flaws themselves.
I truly believe my early steel breech Matador however is a work of art and there is nothing I would change on that rifle and other than add a couple of sling mounts.. I am very glad that I landed that one before many of the changes were implemented. Many people complained about the trigger on the early one but I find it far better and more tunable with the two cap screws than the new trigger with the single grub screw and the ‘lump”.. but again… that’s just my opinion.
I think 90% of the people about to receive the new R3M will love it and as Ed said it is not the same action as the one you had and which even differs from mine. The other 10% of people will make the mistake of comparing the multishot with the single shot they have probably sold on..time will tell on that one.
I have openly said many times that I prefer my single shot over the new R3M action and I truly hope Ed has enough demand to continue making it as well.
You call it biased I call it my positive opinion, either way It is my opinion and it will always differ to others.
Maybe you need to read some of my other PCP reviews to see that?
For those willing to think for themselves I wish you all the best with your new R3Ms and Im sure you will love them.
For those sheep that just want to bag a product because its what everyone else is doing… Jog on..
Regards, Wingman
I think anytime someone owns a particular gun they become somewhat biased just through ownership and understanding of the particulars of the model. Opinions probably vary from straight out of box reviews to the situation where someone is familiar enough to work through corrections to optimize the gun to get better accuracy and smoother mechanical performance.
I’ve owned an Edgun and now a cricket. I think the cricket is rough internally and has that funky loading maneuver and the catch that I never seem to set right so that my magazine rotates with the cycle. But it’s very accurate, small and light, and easy to work on so I like it. Might even buy another Edgun once the majority opinion rates the MS.
PM me your adress and i’ll send you a tin of FX .25’s to try out if you want. I’ll look into that Benji US import at once.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2. This POS iPhone sucks though …
I’m actually trying to hunt around for a bulk deal on those and even consider buying a bunch from overseas. My Cricket likes them.
BTW – can you get a hold on FX pellets over there?
Yea the benjies are expensive here too.. Imported enough tins from the states to keep me going for a while but they were not cheap. A very nicely made consistent pellet though.
Yes we have FX pellets here too.. (relabled JSBs) I never buy them as the importer charges twice the price of JSBs! I have the odd tin here that came with my Air arms S300 when I bought it second hand.
Yep! Those Benjamins are good. Ridiculously expensive here though.
I’m actually trying to hunt around for a bulk deal on those and even consider buying a bunch from overseas. My Cricket likes them.
BTW – can you get a hold on FX pellets over there?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2. This POS iPhone sucks though …
.22 18.13gr Jumbo Heavy = .0330
.25 25.4gr King = .0360
Am i mislead ? Have someone checked the real world BC on those two??
The real world B.C of a subsonic projectile is ever changing and dependant on velocity, altitude and atmospheric conditions.. determining the ballistic coefficient of an air rifle pellet is not an easy game.
Going by the pellet listings on chairgun yes you are correct with 0.033
Edgun pellets have the BC printed on the r/h side of the label and the 18.13gr pellets read 0.036
Whether this is a “sea level figure or some estimated BC I cant answer..
I have chronoed these pellets at various ranges at my home altitude of 110ft asl and have entered the figure .0346 into chair gun that gets me on the target within an inch high or low in both hot and cold days at 150m
I havent bothered testing the Kings as I use Benjamin domes in my .25cal, they are a tad heavier than the kings and the BC is much higher with a real world .0381, they group better than the kings in my rifle and group very well at long range.
I agree with you on all those points above. And i feel the same – the steel breached SS is the best of them all. I’ve owned two of them and got the MS (which btw is the same exact ms as yours) but didn’t like it so i sold it to Dr. Evil -who didn’t like it and after much tweaking that made it 100% better he has now sold it.
Every single gun in the World (except my beloved Sako,of course;) ) has it’s flaws but in all honesty when a PCP costs as much as these cost one expects such roughness, different length of screws and other small boogaboo’s should’ve been fixed before shipping. As would be out of center parts etc.
I have had the opportunity to own/shoot all these three – ED, Cricket & The Beluga so i can actually make an unbiased comparison between them three. I’m blessed in the way that i’m able to buy whichever, or all of them for that matter, and i have no commercial interrest behind my “reports” on any of them.
I just react on reports made by those who have an financial interrest behind what they say-especially when everything’s roses and beautiful that always makes that little voice of warning louder in my melonhead.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2. This POS iPhone sucks though …
BTW – I’m under the impression JSB 18.13gr heavies and 25.4gr Kings don’t have the same BC.
.22 18.13gr Jumbo Heavy = .0330
.25 25.4gr King = .0360
Am i mislead ? Have someone checked the real world BC on those two??
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2. This POS iPhone sucks though …
Why do i say biased? You’re an NZ EdGun importer. There has not been one thing in any of your reviews ( pellets, the rifles) saying one bad thing about anything Ed. Everything’s excellent-beyond that. We both know that’s far from the truth. As an example – the new MS is going to make many buyers disappointed with it’s rough, notchy action. Guaranteed. The action is a joke and you being an expert on things know that. There’s no grease in the world to make it smooth-moly or not.
These guns have their flaws – some bigger than others. As an expert on the field you should be well aware of them yet you speak nothing but the gospel of the excellency of the EdGun . Like said -biased.
Superb shooting nevertheless.
Absolutely none taken my Swedish Brother..
I understand your accusations and most are because you dont know me, I wrote Edgun reviews long before Ed asked me to be his NZ agent..
I have many other PCP reviews and they all follow the same positive style of documenting, If a PCP is a piece of shit I wouldnt bother even reviewing it.
My opinion is my opinion and yes I am a true fan of Edgun.
If I had a Cricket I would speak the same truthful non biased opinion about it too. Every PCP has its weak points but my with my write ups I try to point out the positive aspects and provide fixes for the negative ones. Im not about to bag any ones product, Eds or anyone else’s. There are just too many “sheep” ready to jump on the I hate (Enter your choice of PCP here) band wagon without even knowing anything about the actual item and that just damages businesses.
Yes if I pull any pcp apart I am going to find the good and the bad and there is still much you dont know about the new R3M action.
Mine is not rough.. its is very smooth, but of coarse it feels much different and more awkward to cock compared to my single shot which is now just an extension to my body..
As an engineer myself there is much I would have done different but that goes for all the PCPs I’ve owned.
You say that “like all pcps the Edgun has flaws”, indeed they do but like all thing mechanical they can be fixed.. this is where I focus my writings.. not on the flaws themselves.
I truly believe my early steel breech Matador however is a work of art and there is nothing I would change on that rifle and other than add a couple of sling mounts.. I am very glad that I landed that one before many of the changes were implemented. Many people complained about the trigger on the early one but I find it far better and more tunable with the two cap screws than the new trigger with the single grub screw and the ‘lump”.. but again… that’s just my opinion.
I think 90% of the people about to receive the new R3M will love it and as Ed said it is not the same action as the one you had and which even differs from mine. The other 10% of people will make the mistake of comparing the multishot with the single shot they have probably sold on..time will tell on that one.
I have openly said many times that I prefer my single shot over the new R3M action and I truly hope Ed has enough demand to continue making it as well.
You call it biased I call it my positive opinion, either way It is my opinion and it will always differ to others.
Maybe you need to read some of my other PCP reviews to see that?
For those willing to think for themselves I wish you all the best with your new R3Ms and Im sure you will love them.
For those sheep that just want to bag a product because its what everyone else is doing… Jog on..
Regards, Wingman
No probs my friend,
Yes I have a wife but no kids, (we just like to practice 😆 ) this is not just hours or days of research it is YEARS of research.. it is only recently that I have been able to achieve my own personal air gun nirvana to which I owe many thanks to the guys and girls at JSB and of coarse our inventor, engineer and good friend Ed who made me the platform to make this possible.
Things have come a long way in the last few years and they will only continue to evolve further in the next few years so I look forward to forever pushing the boundaries of this hobby of ours. 
….. EXCELLENT GROUPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!….
Most people think I am NUTS!!!! I just get frustrated when I know that my Gun Scope Combo is top of the line.. but you get a new tin of pellets and your world goes to shit!
I spent years learning to shoot SUB-MOA Groups out to a 1000 yards.. and then pushed the limit to 1760 yrds and 2000 yards. Let me say every little detail shows up..
The fun part is I can be just a frustrated shooting Pellet guns a 25-50 and 100 yards… for WAY LESS MONEY…. 😯 hahahahaha
Mark
I wish I could share more my friend, to be honest they think Im nuts now too and now Ive even been called biased..
We are obviously caved from the same stone.. I too started on the 1000 yard line so pushing a 200 Meter shot with an airgun only comes natural to me..
I dont think the airgun world is ready for all this to be honest, the modern guns have by far surpass the pellet technology and there is a lot of catching up to do with lead design etc..
There is a big blank page in my .25cal long range book because Im waiting for JSB to sort there shit out and give us some decent .25 lead to deal with..
I don’t believe we have reached a benchmark.. I think I have pushed the .177 and .22 cal to its absolute extreme capabilities of both rifle and pellet but I think there’s room to experiment with longer shots with the humble .25 cal.
The 25.4gr Kings have the same BC as the 18.13gr .22 pellets so there’s not much room to play with those.. the market is ready for a better .25 cal pellet, JSB NEED to release a 35-36gr heavy version of their .25cal Kings with the same shape and weight distribution as the 8.44gr .177 and 18.13gr .22cal pellet to raise the B.C.
I know Ed will come to the party with a new barrel/twist rate that will get the best from such a pellet and have a power plant to push them past 900fps which would open up a whole new world of long range PCP varminting for me and many others..
Ed, JSB… are you hearing me?? 😉
I called you biased because you are. No offence intented.
Why do i say biased? You’re an NZ EdGun importer. There has not been one thing in any of your reviews ( pellets, the rifles) saying one bad thing about anything Ed. Everything’s excellent-beyond that. We both know that’s far from the truth. As an example – the new MS is going to make many buyers disappointed with it’s rough, notchy action. Guaranteed. The action is a jokeand you being an expert on things know that. There’s no grease in the world to make it smooth-moly or not.
These guns have their flaws – some bigger than others. As an expert on the field you should be well aware of them yet you speak nothing but the gospel of the excellency of the EdGun . Like said -biased.
Superb shooting nevertheless.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2. This POS iPhone sucks though …
Dear WNZ;
Thanks a lot for all your sharing and giving us the great and unique info about our rifles and what we have to do with our rifles, we do appreciate it, even highly appreciate by me and all,
i am sure you spent a huge hours and plenty days to come up with these results for us …. thanks a lot…. please since we don’t have enough time to do all these examinations and training because of either the work time or family ….. Do you have family (I mean you married or single?)
my Edgun is just liek your R3M, as you know mine is .22cal Long R3M, and i have plenty of brands but don’t want to try them….. unless the JSB, i have only 2 tins of JSN 18.13gr,
as you said i believe my R3M likes the 18.13gr (5.52 head size), but i haven’t try the other sizes…..
Okay, i will go with the 18.13grs and i have plan to buy 20 tins of them(Oldgoat will help me for this), and i will be waiting for the surprise,,,,, whether they are 5.48, 5.50, 5.52, 5.54, …etc,,,
Brother Donny; don’t wish to much for having a lot of time to shot with your R3M,,, you will be just like me …. see my topic regarding my R3M doesn’t get any update due to not geting time to shot my toy ……. we are under the mercy of our families…. 😆 😆 😆 😆
warmest regarding….
since JSB company have produced the new size, what to do now?
H 😯 😯 T; JSB will not produce their own JSB pellets henceforth?
you missunderstand me my kalash wearing brother Hemn..
Jsb still make the 5.50mm pellets they are just randomly marked with 5.52mm stickers..
You first need to determine what head size YOUR rifle prefers before looking for a batch to suit..
just because my edgun likes 5.50mm it doesnt mean yours will..
My new R3m hates 5.50mm and will only shoot 5.52-5.53mm well.. They are all inderviduals..
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They are mostly 6.35-6.36mm but range from 6.34 to 6.37mm in the 4 batches of the kings Ive measured..
I dont really shoot them any more other than close range plinking.. the Benjamin dome pellets are superior in BC and accuracy in my .25cal