52 grain cast 25 acp bullets in the Condor

Molds are usually designed to cast at a certain diameter with a certain alloy. The RCBS mold is designed to give that .251 with Lymans #2 alloy I believe. Mine casts 253 to 254 with 30-1 alloy.

Custom molds can be ordered to cast with what ever alloy you specify, my 452 mold from Accuratemolds for the 408 to 420 grain bullets I cast was designed to cast 452 with pure lead, knowing that I could add more tin to make the bullets drop out larger.

Different alloys have different flow characteristics, pure lead will always cast to the smallest diameter, the more tin you add, the more the mold will fill out and give a larger diameter bullet.

The other problem is that mold makers don’t always hit the mark.

This is why we have devices to size bullets.

I personally do not like to size bullets, I would rather cast them at the correct diameter and just pan lube if I have to lube at all. Sometimes this works out, sometimes it does not. The RCBS 251-50 mold is a very tight mold as far as the alignment pins are concerned, as a result it needs to be tapped with the casting stick or rawhide hammer to set the pins each time, and the diameter is dependent on how well it closes.

As a result I have bullets that are slightly out of round and as the mold wears in this dispairity hopefully will correct itself.

You can also reduce you bullet diameter by using products to coat the mold that allow the bullets to drop out easier, such as Frankford arsels mold prep.

Now you add all these variables to the different diameters of barrels from the same manufacturer. Marvins barrel is .2495 mine is .2535.

So the best advice, is first of all measure the bore, push a slug that is oversize to the bore down about halfway with a cleaning rod, then push the slug back out the breech, that will give you the barrel diameter. Now remember you have a choke, you can measure that by pushing the slug completely out the muzzle.

But the middle of the barrel is what you are after for the measurement.

Then you can order a mold.

I personally feel you take a chance when you order a mold from Lyman or RCBS or Lee, they are mass produced. When you order a mold from Accuratemold or LBT, you can specify the alloy you wish to use.

On my 452 I specified pure lead, in my experience some molds are undersize and it is hard to make a undersize mold work, so with pure lead and casting at 452, I knew with allow I could make that bullet bigger and size it down if I needed.

I use a Lyman ladle mold to cast, left over from my days of casting 500 grain bullets, but with a propane camp stove and a cast iron lead pot from lyman, or Lee or RCBS, you will do just fine.

You need a thermometer, it is a must, without it your guessing temperture, and good bullets are tempature dependeant, and each mold is different on the temperture it likes. My 251-50 like to cast at 780 degrees to fill out those tiny bases.

You need a source of lead, Marvin is great a scavenging lead, I used to do that, but in recent years I order my lead, and the best I have seen is Rotometals, if you order $100.00 or more, they ship for free.

The Lee sizer is the best I have seen, simply because it deforms the bullets the least while sizing, it fits in a reloading press and costs under 20.00 for the off the shelf dies, the .25 caliber wil need to be custom ordered and the price is $35.00 delivered.

The RCBS mold is working for us so it may work for you, LBT would be the next best bet. I have owned a few Lee molds, but for the most part they are crap.

To do this on the cheap:

Check on EBAY for used casting equipment, get your used cast iron pot, mold handles and if your lucky your used mold there. Order the correct size sizer die from Lee Prescision custom shop. If you do not have a reloading press, buy a lee portable hand press, it will work fine, it is what I use. Buy your alloy and lead Themometer from Rotometals, start with 30-1 alloy at first. Buy a used propane camp stove if you do not have one.

Before you spend a dime, wait and see how well this works for me after I get my sizer die. I get promising groups for 5 out of 6 shots at 35 yards. I am doing this for larger game like coyotes and up, that will work fine, but remember, you can by a butt load of Kings for what all this costs.

Hope this helps, I am sure I missed a lot here, and Marvin or Tofazou will add to this hopefully.

Regards,

Roachcreek

When I first talked to him about giving me some bullets to try, he asked if I had slugged my bore, and I had not. So I ran two Kings that I had tapped on to expand them into the bore, one all the way thru to check the choke and one just part way into it to check the bore.

He was taken back by the measurements, the choke was .251 and the bore was .253. He thought that was odd that the LW barrels differed that much and having bought my digital calipers from Harbor Freight I just assume my calipers were off.

I figured when I got the two sample packages of bullets, about 10 each he was sending, I would measure them, then compare those measurements to my calipers.

One thing we did not count on was that the barrel was from the latest batch and may differ from past barrels.

Well when I measured the bullets I recieved today, I found my measurements were correct, and my measurements matched the bullets that he sent. .2495 and .2505. When I chambered the bullets, they slid into the barrel lead easily and went another .25 inch further.

I shot the .2505 bullets and did get one group that was .80, but had to fire 7 shots to get a 5 shot group that was .80. The .2495 bullets just sprayed at 36 yards.

Now I have a unusual shooting bench at my 36 yard range, it is off the top of a 1958 Mercedes in the garage and I use no bags, just my hands to rest on, so sometimes my groups suffer.

I then decided to try the mold and see if I could cast some bullets that would be larger, now I might add I had no way of sizing these bullets when I cast them, other than tweaking alloy or varying the heat, cold alloy usually reduces the bullet diameter.

So I cast some bullets up at 750 to 800 degrees. I started with 40-1 lead to tin because that was what was in my pot. I went thru the ones I could find that were in the .2545 to 255 range,these were too large, but I lubed them with break free and forced them gently into the lead with a flat side of a end wrench.

They shot 1.5 to 3 inches at 36 yards.

So then I reduced the heat to 700 degrees to try and make them a smaller diameter and cast some more, they came out at .253 to .254. THis is usually not a way to cast accurate bullets, but it does make them smaller.

I waited until they cooled, which with these tiny slugs does not take long, then I hand rubbed Johnsons Paste wax on them for lube, this is what I use on my .452 bullets I use in my 45 Ranger and it has stopped the leading problem I was having in that rifle.

The Johnson Paste Wax lubed bullets, that cast out to .253 to.254 could be pushed into the lead flush with considerable thumb pressure, but they were in fact working.

The first group I shot was around 1.5 inches, nothing special, but I did not expect them to group right away, it takes 5 or 6 bullets to get the wax into the barrel.

The next group put 4 shots into one hole and a 5th shot took it to .65. The group after that went into .65 also.

Velocity is 877 to 925, I fill to 3200 PSI, the PW is maxed out and I have a Condor spring, hammer and hammer weight, and a RLAirguns valve stem, Top hat is at .85 this gives me somewhere around 15 shots before I drop into the 860 FPS range.

I need to stress these are not good quality cast bullets that I am shooting right now. The mold is new, and there are a lot of wrinkles. I get 3 or 4 shots into one hole and then a flyer that I know is due to a mold not warmed to the right temperture and being new.

I have a lot of work to do on this and I need to have a sizer die made, it is looking like it needs to be .2525 to .253

Much thanks to the member here who cast me up some slugs and sent them off to me to try and also check my caliper, I owe you big time.

Regards,

Roachcreek