50 metes target. CONDOR BIG PROBLEM
I really didn’t like these groups, i was shooting and i had around 4 TO 5 inches of distance between the rolls (10 shots only per fill), the Condor was setup at power level: 12 then 10 then 8 and the tank was filled at 2.500 psi at every power setting, i was using Beeman Kodiak 21.14 gr. also was no wind at roll was just a perfect day for target shooting. The problem its not really me because i have done much better groups then this one in different air rifles at 50 meters, Can anyone help me with this problem? Why is this gun giving very bad groups at this 50 metes distance? Wrong pellets? Wrong setup? Does the rifle has any internal problem? Do i have to change my pellets for Eujin 28 or 32 gr? Tell me a good setup for this gun using this pellet (beeman kod. 21.14gr…………….
Thanks in advance for all answers and i hope it can be fixed! Thanks again to all! AIRFORCE CONDOR .22 CAL
http://s985.photobucket.com/albums/ae337/DuduCondor/?action=view¤t=P4130714.jpg
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All Replies
Also examine you muzzle with a magnifying glass and a qtip to see if there is a burr
I did examine the barrel and all the parts in side and i see no problems at roll, every think looks just brand new! Sorry but no body here has the magnifying glass and a qtip.
What i did was i called PYRAMYD and i ordered 1 tin of 28.4 gr eunjin pellets, with this pellets i believe that i can tell you guys if the problem is the top hat!
I too use those JSB MOnsters..MOST accurate pellets I can find for the TSS, and for my Crosman custom built HPA gun ..With my TSS, I set the PW on 4.5 and 2900psi fill..The Monsters all want to go in the same hole, like I said, most accurate pellet I’ve found for the TSS.
Two things that have gotten me in the past with this rifle.
Scope mount to rail screw loose.
Degris in the spring hammer raceway.
The debris came from a particle of copper working its way from the baffle spacers. A little bit goes a long ways, the hammer does not fall the same way each time when this occurs
I had moved the scope back on the rail adjusting eye relief and did not tighten the screw i guess or else they worked loose.
You do have the Condor hammer peice in?
Good luck,
Roachcreek
Dudu, I have the same problem with my Condor… Tophat .06, 2500 psi, pw 0 and it still throws the 21.1 gr just under the SB. in fact it brakes the sb when the temp drops here in Maine. My groups looked just like yours with kodiaks. The EJ’s were the only thing heavy enough I could shoot and keep a group. Even then it was only about 1.5″ at 50 yards. My Talon ss would out shoot it any day. But then…. I tried the JSB 25.4 gr monsters and boy that made the difference!!! They here heavy enough to keep speed down and the quality is sooo much better than the EJ’s. Now at 50 yards both guns can keep a nice .5″ group. Thank’s guys!!! You were all right about getting too close to the SB!!!
Man what! The AF trigger is the best their is lol. I wasn’t saying it was true. Just threw out the info I found. My TH was .087 stock.
AF are the same people who for years said the original Condor valve was just fine only to replace it a few years later…
I have two Talon valves that don’t even come close to operating the same. What AF has to say is moot, QC is nothing even close to European manufacturers and from what I can tell they haven’t even noticed a problem. If there is no QC how can one setting work for everything?
The th is set to fill the gap between the breach. It has nothing to do with power. If you buy just a tank the TH will be set a 0.08″ if you by a rifle the TH will be set a 0.110″. If it were about power wouldn’t they all be set the same? Well actually they would have to custom tune every rifle since the valves are never the same. Their story begins to unravel really quickly…
How’s that trigger beenee, apparently it works so well AF won’t do anything to change it… 😉 I think my 100 year old bp pistol has a better trigger…
AF will say anything to back their actions, sort of like politicians, what we hold in our hands is the proof of their true intentions (making assloads of cash). The AF rifle leaves a lot to be fixed for something that works so well according to the AF propaganda machine… 😉
Sounds time to break her down and give her a good frame cleaning. Did you go to heavy on lube maybe? Reading the link you posted to the AF site I saw this info. “The Condor valve mechanism is adjusted at the factory. The adjustable valve cap is set with a clearance of 0.090-inches underneath to give the maximum power the rifle has to offer.”
No two valves operate the same, comparing the two rifles is a waste of time. I have two Talon tanks and one shoots totally different than the other with the same settings in the same gun.
These barrels tend to shoot better after than have worn in a little… 😉
Now if you take his barrel and put it in your rifle and it shoots like crap it’s your scope, hammer, trigger or breech.
I can see why you are frustrated…! 😯 😯 😯
Would your friend let you swap barrels? And while you have it out make sure the screws from the bushings to the barrel are tight… 😉
WOK’s advice is good, problems there will make the groups erratic…
If you had a chronograph you could get a better idea of what velocity the pellet is doing. It could be the problem or part of a couple…
Man this is a very bad situation, Yes all the screw from the barrel are very tight. You believe or not his barrel is kind of old, on the roll where you put the pellets its a little be wider than mine, now you understand how old his barrel is. hehehehe He has shot a lot my man!
About the chronograph i dont have one, but people that use the same pellet as me (beeman 21.4gr) they use the PW set at (between) 6 and 8 with out making any mod on the valve top hat, for example:
If you go to: http://www.airforceairguns.com/webarticles.html#condor
i will see that you will shoot very accurate at 25 yards using the same pellet as me with out touching the top hot! POWER WHEEL 8
Im a little tied now with every thing with this rifle, man i get up today at 9:30 AM and i started testing this rifle around 10:00 am and i stopped around 6:30 PM!
WHAT A DAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
😯 😕 Damn, are the barrel screws tight? Did you try different scopes (I think you did)?
I can see why you are frustrated…! 😯 😯 😯
Would your friend let you swap barrels? And while you have it out make sure the screws from the bushings to the barrel are tight… 😉
WOK’s advice is good, problems there will make the groups erratic…
If you had a chronograph you could get a better idea of what velocity the pellet is doing. It could be the problem or part of a couple…
Do you do good groups at 50 meters? and which pellets are you using?
The rifle is capable of good to excellent groups with the right pellets and tuned to run them under sound barrier (around 1050 feet per second) for maximum accuracy.
Due to the flex of the frame the rifle can be hold sensitive. Due to the nature of the moving parts the rifle may need a bit of adjustment to make it operate under the speed of sound.
Do you own or have access to a chronograph so you can figure out how fast the pellets are moving? If you don’t you may want to pick one up, while it isn’t absolutely necessary it makes the job much easier.
The rifle can be turned down with the powerwheel as well as the tophat (which is a bit more complicated than the powerwheel but not too hard). The optimum starting distance for a af valve is around 0.08″, but it varies from valve to valve. The tophat gap is measured from the brass face of the top of the valve to the bottom the the tophat itself.
While high power is fun, too much power will make the pellets go all over the place.
I would start out with the powerwheel set at half way or lower and shoot at 25-30 yards until I can verify that it’s the velocity and not the shooter or the scope… Making adjustments while hoping to see an improvement and shooting at 50 yards is like shooting in a heavy wind and hoping you will be accurate.
So, turn down the powerwheel, shoot at 20-30 meters and turn up the powerwheel until the groups start to open up, now you will know the max velocity based on accuracy. Now start to move the target out further…
Some pellets work better than others at different distances. Finding the correct pellet can be a pain.
Good luck and report back in…
Go take a look…………
Slug your barrel and see if it has a choke.
Also examine you muzzle with a magnifying glass and a qtip to see if there is a burr
Ok guys, here it is:
Today i tried every thing possible to do better groups with my Condor!
I got another rifle from a friend this was what i did:
http://s985.photobucket.com/albums/ae337/DuduCondor/?action=view¤t=P4200754.jpg
After i used his rifle (CONDOR) i adjusted my PW for the same as his CONDOR:
PW=8 1/2
AND PSI: 2700
And this is what i did:
http://s985.photobucket.com/albums/ae337/DuduCondor/?action=view¤t=P4200758.jpg
Very bad groups again, also i changed the scopes, shroud, frame extender, i shot with no shroud, i changed pellets, i used beeman 21.4 and Baracuda Match 21.14 Grains. I also changed the distance from 50 to 25 meter and i had the same problem (BAD GROUPS)!
Today was a very nice day for out side shooting so no excuses for bad accuracy! I did every thing that you guys have told me here on this topic i even closed me eye trying to relax because i was really upset with all this.
i tried PW: 8,7,6,5,4,3 and all of them same CACA.
Before i forget i did tried too shooting with psi: 2500, 2300, and 2000
So do you guys have any other idea of what is going on with this MF Condor? (before i send it to AF to check out this rifle and see whats wrong)
Thanks to all who are helping me with this issue!
This post is for every body who has posted here on this topic, after i opened this topic it has been like a school for me, each post that you guys leave here i read them and i really take them for me, i dont know how to say how happy i am with so much help!
I will get there and i will take pictures so you guys can see how important so much information is not only for me as for everyone!
Thanks so lot to all.
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These barrels tend to shoot better after than have worn in a little… 😉
Now if you take his barrel and put it in your rifle and it shoots like crap it’s your scope, hammer, trigger or breech.
Ill try with eun jin 28.4 gr, i may not turn the PW to 12 just to see if this pellets can make me any difference! Ill try all the level possibles. I believe the problem is the top hat. too much air leaving the tank even on low PW. What do you think? If this is the problem (top hat) i will not have any problem with this pellets.
About the barrel you now what i can do?
Im gonna put a nail in side and im gonna shoot this nail just for the barrel to go bad, hehehehe im pretty sure i can will a raccoon this way 🙂
Im just kidding, thanks.