AZ tuned BSA Super Ten
Sent my BSA Super Ten to Allen Zasadny for some work….I can
not Emphasize how quiet this thing is now..Screw on LDC with
end cap to protect threads when not using LDC….Trigger is match grade
1 stage, and the fill adapter mod is a have to have….Cocking bolt
is cool too but everything else over shadows the knob….
Thanks AZ…..
All Replies
It’s not that I want to flame anybody but him saying drilling the tank makes it stronger is rightout wrong. Look at it like a piece of flat bar being pulled on all 4 ends. Drill it in the middle and it has less material to withstand stresses. Thus it is weekened. Every hole in a pressure vessel is a potential stresspoint whatever way you look at it. If you’d punctures a balloon and fitted a valve everyone would agree it’s weekened. You flame Walther for messing with someones livelyhood. But becouse it’s AZ’s livelyhood it’s my OPINION he should hydro every modded tank he does and furthermore he should test a few modded tanks to bursting!
I will probably be flamed for this but still I had to give my 2 cents on the subject!
More on the pictures in your post. Great looking gun!!!! I have always loved the S10 rifles!
Regards,
Marc
I agree and it doesn’t take an engineering degree to understand
that drilling a hole in a tank weakens it. That fact is not
being contested..As far as I know, no one yet has seen or discussed
the process AZ uses so, to say that it leaves the tank weaker than
before is an ignorant statement…It may very well do that but
unless someone has really seen or understands what he is doing there
is no way of knowing….I think that with the number of quick fill
mods that AZ has done and the amount of time that has gone by
without even 1 failure that the mod has proven itself to be safe enough
to be a non issue…Now if one wants to get really nit picky, the word
safe is relative so, yes the mod could be considered unsafe.
I just don’t think it is so much so that it deserves the comments made by Walter
and others….How safe are the perminent cylinder tube tanks on the other rifles?…..
How often do people have those hydrotested? Never
as far as I can tell…Is that safe…No. but you don’t see people
running for thier lives when someone shows up with one 10+ yrs old…….
I am just saying….
And as far as this guy RANCiDTOM What a pompus ass…..
Well, well, well! I think I shall ask for an apology here as I’ve been insulted behind my back.
As for drilling a bottle while it’s pressurised??? I have never heard of anything so stupid, as this is even more likely to cause a stress raising discontinuity in the crystal structure of the base of the bottle.
My whole point about the modification being unsafe is that the base of the bottle is not thick enough to support a thread engagement considered suitable for high pressure applications with reference to either the British Standards Institute or the American National Standards Institute recommendations.
I don’t care to steal business from Allen Zesadny, as I am not and will never be in competition for business drilling holes in pressure vessels, especially not while they are pressurised.
As a technical officer on the bsaog.co.uk I have accepted that I have a duty to keep the members of the site informed as to safe and legal conduct generally regarding gun ownership and use.
I would like to point out to this forums moderators that I find Mr mamcrackin’s unprovoked attack rather unacceptable at least in so far as he can’t even spell pompous! 🙄
Mr mamcrackin has been given a 1 month suspension from posting on bsaog.co.uk where he launched a series of insults at me. He is not banned but has been warned by the moderators of the site that his postings will be under close scrutiny when his suspension is lifted and any further infringement of site etiquette will probably earn him a lifetime ban.
I would also like to point out that I do not have moderator powers on the bsaog, nor did I ask for him to be suspended. The moderators used their own discretion in their actions.
RancidTom
Marc, thanks for the link!
pretty cool
Airforce bottle’s and the like are cold formed from the solid bar.
Last steps are anealing and machining the neck with thread etc.
For a more comprehensive explenation see this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmSvbp2NFbc&feature=channel_page
Regards,
Marc
Oh boy this again… 😀
Safe is having NO high pressure vessels in your home or business…
I’m not going into the fray but I would like to know how the end cap is typically affixed to the tube… Spun (only for AL?), drawn, welded, machined from solid rod?
Does anyone know?
❗ ❗ ❗ 😀
I agree with everything Knife said. It makes the most sense from a logical thinking standpoint. I thought to meself, “Fuck, the end of all guns tubes are either threaded or drilled and tapped, or both.” Who gives a shit ’bout the know it alls, go shoot yer gun.
If I were maker of a high pressure tank I would tell you not to make holes in it too, for liability reasons. You never know about the dumbass redneck mechanic that hammers in a hole with a chisel and shoves in a tire valve. If done properly I see no reason to worry.
I can certainly see how it would weaken the tank—“BUT” The much thicker neck is by far the weakest point on the tank. This simply because of the way they are extruded. That Is Mega Stress!!!
Now guys, just think for a minute. Lets forget that there has never been a problem with AZ’s mod of the rapid bottles. Just take a look at most non bottle gun. Just about any of the tube guns for that matter. They all have drilled end’s. On “BOTH ends. The fittings are all drilled. And to top it off, the quick fills that are in the pre chamber are also drilled and at full pressure when being fired. Does this not weaken the frame? Never heard of problem with them either? Proof that they are safe? Nope. The quick fill is pointing at your fore arm when shooting. AZ’s mod is pointing down range when being fired. Just saying!
Want to know what scared the hell out of me? Hydro testing. I use to do it for a fire extinguisher co. years ago. First the test it’s self stresses the vessel. A LOT!!! Want to talk about metal fatigue! But that’s not the worst of it. Every time a tank is tested, it gets STAMPED. Being in the knife business, and having more than a working knowledge of metallurgy, let me tell you something about stress risers. I Never-Ever stamp a Lovett blade. Why. Stress Risers. In any highly stressed steel or metal, it is a very weakening act. ( Bend a biece of tree branch. Now cut a notch in it)I use only electro-acid etch. It doesn’t weaken the metal at all. Think of a stamp like a perforation in paper. Where does it tear? Where you put the perforations. If they really wanted safety, they would require all tanks to be electo etched in stead of stamped. Why don’t’ they? Any moron can operate a stamp. So it cost a lot less. But more important, it can’t be etched through paint. So no more pretty paints on dive tanks. No more bright red on extinguishers. Of course, they could have a patch set aside from the manufacturer for the markings. But nope. It would cost a little more. So what is the real driving force? Money. As usual. It would cost more to do things right and in a safe manner.
For what it is worth a drilled hole that is properly chamfered, and smoothed is way stronger than any deep stamp! Any time you forcefully displace metal, you weaken it. Especially with a sharp object like a stamp.
You can grind away the stamp mark, hit it with acid, and can read the mark again. Even from inside the tank. Just a word to the wise here.
Want proof of being entirely safe/ Stay in a padded room. Do Not go out side for anything! Something could hurt you. Call the government! We need more protection from EVERYTHING!!!
You know, I have several guns with ported barrels. And they fire at 45,000+ psi. Some a lot higher! Never split one of those either. Safe, probably not! Especially down range! 😉
Mike
Although you can make this assumption , you CAN NOT claim it is a
fact until the bottle has been tested and proved to be what you say it is…
That is my point ….
You have lost your mind Voltar…The mod works fine..I use it
every day….It is not like I got screwed….I bought a quick fill mod,
not a story….Why would I be upset?….I think you’re upset because I
am not buying what you’re selling….
I am not sure that you understand that I have 0 (ZERO) need or want
for your
opinions or the opinions that you claim to be getting elsewhere..
This mod is no more dangerous that the air cylinders on the guns
that never get hydrotested…I got banned from the BSA forum
because there was another know it all just like you, making claims
that the bottle was going to blow up…..BS….
Tell me Voltar…When is the last time you had the permanent air
cylinder on any of your guns hydrotested? NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You’re as dangerous or more dangerous than this mod and so are all
of us that think our air cylinders are good for forever….
Just wipe the shavings out of the tank?….That alone gives me a glimps
of your ignorance….
Any idiot would also know that a tank with a hole with a plug in it is weaker even though it now holds air.
So in some ways you are correct. The tank with the hole in it…. a dead tank….. that does not hold air is absolutely the SAFEST tank around.
Are you upset with all this because you bought the story and now find yourself defending the indefensible? Would that have been the trouble with your banning on the BSA forum as well?
Would it not be prudent at some time to ask yourself whether your position is correct?
Ask AZ why not forget the 3,000psi in the tank while drilling it and instead perhaps just wipe it out? Seems a rather simple to me…….. but then I know……. simple me!
It’s not that I want to flame anybody but him saying drilling the tank makes it stronger is rightout wrong. Look at it like a piece of flat bar being pulled on all 4 ends. Drill it in the middle and it has less material to withstand stresses. Thus it is weekened. Every hole in a pressure vessel is a potential stresspoint whatever way you look at it. If you’d punctures a balloon and fitted a valve everyone would agree it’s weekened. You flame Walther for messing with someones livelyhood. But becouse it’s AZ’s livelyhood it’s my OPINION he should hydro every modded tank he does and furthermore he should test a few modded tanks to bursting!
I will probably be flamed for this but still I had to give my 2 cents on the subject!
More on the pictures in your post. Great looking gun!!!! I have always loved the S10 rifles!
Regards,
Marc
I agree and it doesn’t take an engineering degree to understand
that drilling a hole in a tank weakens it. That fact is not
being contested..As far as I know, no one yet has seen or discussed
the process AZ uses so, to say that it leaves the tank weaker than
before is an ignorant statement…It may very well do that but
unless someone has really seen or understands what he is doing there
is no way of knowing….I think that with the number of quick fill
mods that AZ has done and the amount of time that has gone by
without even 1 failure that the mod has proven itself to be safe enough
to be a non issue…Now if one wants to get really nit picky, the word
safe is relative so, yes the mod could be considered unsafe.
I just don’t think it is so much so that it deserves the comments made by Walter
and others….How safe are the perminent cylinder tube tanks on the other rifles?…..
How often do people have those hydrotested? Never
as far as I can tell…Is that safe…No. but you don’t see people
running for thier lives when someone shows up with one 10+ yrs old…….
I am just saying….
And as far as this guy RANCiDTOM What a pompus ass…..
You are fricking kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
here is the statement you threw out there that now you say that you don’t have to know much engineering to know that AZ is wrong with his claim????
Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:51 pm Post subject:
——————————————————————————–
Well well well…I talked to Mr. Allen Zasadny today about the quick
fill mod on the end of the bottle…Seems he has more experience
with HPA bottles than any of us can imagine….He understands the
metalergy, structure, and physics behind the strength of the bottles…
He guaranties that the bottle is stronger with the quick fill mod
than without….He has done hundreds without a failure….Also, when
he drills the bottles for the mod he has them pressurized to 3,000psi
to prevent shaving from entering the bottle….
Now explain why the bottle doesn’t explode..If that won’t
blow one up then I think it is safe to say that his mod is not an
issue..
amazing……
Voltar….Any idiot knows that if you drill a hole in a tank an leave it
that way it would be weaker than it was before….
And guess what?…
IT WOULDN’T FRIGGIN HOLD AIR IF IT HAD A FRIGGIN HOLE IN IT SO
IT WOULD NOT BE DANGEROUS……..
WHAT IS YOUR FRIGGIN POINT?
I think you have a masters in OBVIOUSOLOGY…..
That is the study of things that are obvious to everyone else….
It’s not that I want to flame anybody but him saying drilling the tank makes it stronger is rightout wrong. Look at it like a piece of flat bar being pulled on all 4 ends. Drill it in the middle and it has less material to withstand stresses. Thus it is weekened. Every hole in a pressure vessel is a potential stresspoint whatever way you look at it. If you’d punctures a balloon and fitted a valve everyone would agree it’s weekened. You flame Walther for messing with someones livelyhood. But becouse it’s AZ’s livelyhood it’s my OPINION he should hydro every modded tank he does and furthermore he should test a few modded tanks to bursting!
I will probably be flamed for this but still I had to give my 2 cents on the subject!
More on the pictures in your post. Great looking gun!!!! I have always loved the S10 rifles!
Regards,
Marc
I agree and it doesn’t take an engineering degree to understand
that drilling a hole in a tank weakens it. That fact is not
being contested..As far as I know, no one yet has seen or discussed
the process AZ uses so, to say that it leaves the tank weaker than
before is an ignorant statement…It may very well do that but
unless someone has really seen or understands what he is doing there
is no way of knowing….I think that with the number of quick fill
mods that AZ has done and the amount of time that has gone by
without even 1 failure that the mod has proven itself to be safe enough
to be a non issue…Now if one wants to get really nit picky, the word
safe is relative so, yes the mod could be considered unsafe.
I just don’t think it is so much so that it deserves the comments made by Walter
and others….How safe are the perminent cylinder tube tanks on the other rifles?…..
How often do people have those hydrotested? Never
as far as I can tell…Is that safe…No. but you don’t see people
running for thier lives when someone shows up with one 10+ yrs old…….
I am just saying….
And as far as this guy RANCiDTOM What a pompus ass…..
You are fricking kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
here is the statement you threw out there that now you say that you don’t have to know much engineering to know that AZ is wrong with his claim????
Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:51 pm Post subject:
——————————————————————————–
Well well well…I talked to Mr. Allen Zasadny today about the quick
fill mod on the end of the bottle…Seems he has more experience
with HPA bottles than any of us can imagine….He understands the
metalergy, structure, and physics behind the strength of the bottles…
He guaranties that the bottle is stronger with the quick fill mod
than without….He has done hundreds without a failure….Also, when
he drills the bottles for the mod he has them pressurized to 3,000psi
to prevent shaving from entering the bottle….
Now explain why the bottle doesn’t explode..If that won’t
blow one up then I think it is safe to say that his mod is not an
issue..
amazing……
Passing a hydro test is not the real issue.
The issue is the tank safe? I have read reports, wish I could find them again, online on pressure testing HPA vessels and then they put them under a microscope to examine them. Even though the vessel would pass hydro what the micro scope showed where stress cracks at the thick neck and would lead to the vessel splitting one day.
Let me see if I can find the resource again.
CHeers
Marc
Just some know it all on the BSA Owners Forum…..I pissed him off
and got a month’s suspension…. 🙄
Let’s just say that AZ chooses not to access the internet.
Therefore he cannot defend himself or address the aligations
and accusations so, I took it upon myself to take a stand for a guy
that has done more for the airgun community than we
can comprehend…..It is just rediculous
to be discussing a mod if no one in the discussion has discussed it
with the guy doing the mod….How can you have a discussion
without facts….Without facts it is mere gossip…Gossip should be left
to the split tails…..
I agree with you on that. I have repaired quite a few guns. Koreans BAM airarms stealth theoben just to name a few. And everytime I openup a korean gun I get the shivers! Thin tubing dirty on the inside. Threads under pressure. Not very well constructed. But I have yet to sea a post of a failure. Even airarms tubes are on the thin side! So indeed one could qualify them as safe. Heck even jumbojets are well engineered etc but still have failures.
I think the point is made. And as long as nothing failes everyone is happy.
BTW who is RANCiDTOM??
CHeers
Marc
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people dont get suspended over here
u deal with the shit or leave