AZ tuned BSA Super Ten
Sent my BSA Super Ten to Allen Zasadny for some work….I can
not Emphasize how quiet this thing is now..Screw on LDC with
end cap to protect threads when not using LDC….Trigger is match grade
1 stage, and the fill adapter mod is a have to have….Cocking bolt
is cool too but everything else over shadows the knob….
Thanks AZ…..
All Replies
Why were people drilling holes into the engine blocks and putting quick fill nipples on them 😛 ?
I agree with all of that YN…It was all of the accusations that the tank
will positively blowup that I didn’t agree with and then the
comments about how AZ was a charlaten, snake oil salesman,
idiot, yadda yadda yadda…That is just uncalled for….There is
an uncertainty about the safety of the tank but to just blaitantly say
that it will blow up is going just a little far…There has not been even
one failure or problem with this mod…I have no hard feelings for
anyone that doesn’t want to own one or for anyone that thinks it
is unsafe…But, does anyone know how unsafe it really is?….Is it
worth worrying about? Is it worth mentioning even?
Who knows….
My other point was that AZ doesn’t do internet so he can’t defend
himself or his mod….
How come people with no or limited experience can profess it as safe but those who have some kind of education and/or experience in the subject matter are told to be quiet in no uncertain terms when they say it could be dangerous?
I personally would not own an AZ modified tank. If someone else wants to own one and knows all about the controversy surrounding it. They can feel free to take the risk that some people feel they are taking as far as I am concerned. If someone gets a bit of flack everytime these bloody tanks get brought up… well thats the price you pay to live on the edge I guess and newer people can then decide for themselves knowing both sides of the argument.
As for stealing AZ’s livlehood. if someone thinks its dangerous it would be wrong of them not to mention what they see as a hazard just so someone else can line their pockets – We always go on about how we can say and do what we want here. AZ is not and should not be exempt from that.
Mam/C
That was one UN professional and rude banning letter. You must have been a real prick for a mod to justify being such a low puddle of a dick wad!
It always amazed me how high brow and snooty some in the UK can be while at the same time having the manners of the lowliest of peasants.
Always seem like such a contradiction in terms and actions. But as they say, actions speak louder than words, and this NG has already shown his hand. Engineer in 4 fields my ass. Common sense nor manners are one of them! 🙄
Well said! :8
“All about my ego”?
I think not. More like me performing the thankless task of informing people on the technical and legal issues surrounding ownership, use, care of air weapons in the UK. I don’t want to see my sport torn apart by journalists and politicians eager to publish “shocking gory stories” about irresponsible gun use.
“My site”? I don’t own bsaog nor was I responsible for setting it up. I have no power in the administration of the site either. Robbie P is not my friend, but an aquaintance I’ve only met briefly a couple of times. I’m not responsible for his actions, in fact I did send him a personal message when he told me he’d “suspended your right to post” asking him was he really sure he wanted to do that. You see I don’t wish to allow sensible debate censored.
Well, I can see you’re pleased with your lifetime ban, I’m very proud for you that you are a “bad boy” and see fit to frame and display your “certificate of badness”. I wish I had one of those! It might re-inflate my ego that you just popped. I suppose there is a reason for there being no sarcasm emoticon available…
Yours in awe.
RancidTom
After all of the insults you spewed about AZ I find my being
banned laughable. The pride I have in being banned is not to be a
bad boy but to be proud that I no longer belong to a hipocritical site
like BSA Owners. I wouldn’t want to belong to any organization
that would have me as a member….Tom, I undertstand your
frustration having to hold your tongue on the BSA forum…
you’re welcome to voice your opinion openly on our site any time just
do not try to convence us that you are some almighty know it all….
Stick to the facts, skip the personal attacks, brow beating, and the
all mighty attitude, and you will fit right in…We all have more to
learn and sometimes it takes a few scrapes and scratches to get
the point across……Thankless task? No one is twisting your Royal
arm. Stop whinning….You love doing it or you wouldn’t put up with
the disappointments it brings……..
Ok..I have some pellet tests to do and you are cutting into my
shooting time…That my friend is going too far….
See ya Tom…..
Rancid, I don’t know what the hell you keep going on about. NO LAW had been broken! MAM/C lives in TEXAS, Not the UK.
You Know-Tesas. Gun World!!!
Mam/C
That was one UN professional and rude banning letter. You must have been a real prick for a mod to justify being such a low puddle of a dick wad!
It always amazed me how high brow and snooty some in the UK can be while at the same time having the manners of the lowliest of peasants.
Always seem like such a contradiction in terms and actions. But as they say, actions speak louder than words, and this NG has already shown his hand. Engineer in 4 fields my ass. Common sense nor manners are one of them! 🙄
I find this laughable.
“All about my ego”?
I think not. More like me performing the thankless task of informing people on the technical and legal issues surrounding ownership, use, care of air weapons in the UK. I don’t want to see my sport torn apart by journalists and politicians eager to publish “shocking gory stories” about irresponsible gun use.
“My site”? I don’t own bsaog nor was I responsible for setting it up. I have no power in the administration of the site either. Robbie P is not my friend, but an aquaintance I’ve only met briefly a couple of times. I’m not responsible for his actions, in fact I did send him a personal message when he told me he’d “suspended your right to post” asking him was he really sure he wanted to do that. You see I don’t wish to allow sensible debate censored.
Well, I can see you’re pleased with your lifetime ban, I’m very proud for you that you are a “bad boy” and see fit to frame and display your “certificate of badness”. I wish I had one of those! It might re-inflate my ego that you just popped. I suppose there is a reason for there being no sarcasm emoticon available…
Yours in awe.
RancidTom
Thanks for the replies. Firstly, yes I am a qualified engineer, I have run my own engineering business for a total of over 25 years so far and have worked in engineering (mechanical, electrical, electronics and computer disciplines) since leaving full time education in 1982.
For many years I raced and tuned motorcycles during this time I was one of the founding members of a club which set out a new formula promoting cheap racing with very few rules. We formed the rules to try to prevent “cheque book engineered” bikes from cleaning up on the theory that the newcomers to racing wouldn’t need to mortgage their houses to support their habit and to “level the playing field” so that access to money didn’t automatically buy you a championship winning bike. Skill, ingenuity and application being more important to our objectives than money, so the “back yard shed” tuners and racers had much the same chance of winning as the richer entrants. I remained as technical officer of this club for 12 years while my engines took a few class lap records, won many races and myself I won a regional championship. I personally don’t have the money for racing any more, as family commitments took over. I still spanner, fabricate, weld and tune for a friend who races a big block 490 chevvy in stock car championships, but just occasionally now, when family duties allow.
Anyhow, I don’t recall having asked anyone to ban or even reprimand mamcrackin at all either here or on any other forum. I am happy to take the flak for what I say. I have no problem with answering criticisms and explaining my postings, all I think I’m due is an apology from mamcrackin, but I won’t hold my breath waiting for a reply, I reckon I’d go blue in the face waiting!
In the UK we suffer from politicians who wish to gain fame and or votes and get free publicity by hounding the firearms and airgun using members of the public. Over the last few years we’ve had more “gun control” measures thrown at us than I’ve had hot dinners. Every time there is an incident/accident involving an air weapon there is general public outcry to “ban all guns”. For years we’ve had a sub 12ftlb class for rifles which allows practically anyone to own and use an air rifle within certain legal constraints. The limit is 6ftlb for pistols. You can own and use a rifle or pistol of higher muzzle energy if you hold a Fire Arms Certificate.
Presently there is a government proposal to ban the unlicensed ownership of ALL air guns, starting in Scotland as a trial, with England and Wales to follow if the Scottish ban proves “successful”.
Any accident or incident gets immediate press attention, followed up by MP’s jumping on the bandwagon of “outraged” public opinion.
As a responsible, law abiding air gun owner and competitive target shooter I don’t wish to see any further bans or controls imposed upon us as a whole. I therefore have to advise people not to break any existing laws for fear of giving fuel to the anti-firearms lobbyists. I don’t want to have to ship my guns to Switzerland for instance, to go and shoot them once a year like our FAC handgun brethren have to. Even our Olympic team members are not allowed to own or use their competition guns within the UK shores.
So, how does this affect you in the US? Probably not at all at the moment, but to our sport over here in the UK we need to toe the line with every piece of legislation our government wishes to apply. I have signed many petitions over many years to try to prevent further controls and regulations as in my opinion it’s generally somebody who is unaware of or in denial of our gun control and related legislation. Therefore I take it as my responsibility to educate and inform people of their legal obligations relating to their gun ownership. I can’t stop people breaking any laws, but I can at least inform the ignorant, as in our legal system ignorance is no excuse. “I didn’t know murder was illegal” will get you nowhere with your defence etc.
Anyway, the sun is shining, I have work to do, and I can go shooting later.
Cheers!
RancidTom
Thanks for the resume…I am sure we are all in awe..Excuse my lack
of interest as I have seen it once before….
Ok Tom..Here ya go…..I should have been the bigger man and I
should have taken the high road. I should not have used your
conduct to justify my own. I should not have repayed insults with
insults that were not aimed in my direction..I should not have
defended one of the most reputable airgun smith’s in the US..
For that I am sorry…..
Next time I will be more polite when I point out your short comings
and put you in your place…..
I would assume that you will be able to put you ego and need to
inform everyone of your greatness aside and will do the same in
publishing a formal apology to AZ for the attack and insults you so
carelessly posted on your precious site…..
Again please accept my deepest apology….
😯
And NO, I am not doing this to try to have my lifetime ban from your
site lifted….I am actually quite pleased with it….I printed the notice and
it is hanging on my wall in a nice oak frame….
Hi all,
Thanks for the replies. Firstly, yes I am a qualified engineer, I have run my own engineering business for a total of over 25 years so far and have worked in engineering (mechanical, electrical, electronics and computer disciplines) since leaving full time education in 1982.
For many years I raced and tuned motorcycles during this time I was one of the founding members of a club which set out a new formula promoting cheap racing with very few rules. We formed the rules to try to prevent “cheque book engineered” bikes from cleaning up on the theory that the newcomers to racing wouldn’t need to mortgage their houses to support their habit and to “level the playing field” so that access to money didn’t automatically buy you a championship winning bike. Skill, ingenuity and application being more important to our objectives than money, so the “back yard shed” tuners and racers had much the same chance of winning as the richer entrants. I remained as technical officer of this club for 12 years while my engines took a few class lap records, won many races and myself I won a regional championship. I personally don’t have the money for racing any more, as family commitments took over. I still spanner, fabricate, weld and tune for a friend who races a big block 490 chevvy in stock car championships, but just occasionally now, when family duties allow.
Anyhow, I don’t recall having asked anyone to ban or even reprimand mamcrackin at all either here or on any other forum. I am happy to take the flak for what I say. I have no problem with answering criticisms and explaining my postings, all I think I’m due is an apology from mamcrackin, but I won’t hold my breath waiting for a reply, I reckon I’d go blue in the face waiting!
In the UK we suffer from politicians who wish to gain fame and or votes and get free publicity by hounding the firearms and airgun using members of the public. Over the last few years we’ve had more “gun control” measures thrown at us than I’ve had hot dinners. Every time there is an incident/accident involving an air weapon there is general public outcry to “ban all guns”. For years we’ve had a sub 12ftlb class for rifles which allows practically anyone to own and use an air rifle within certain legal constraints. The limit is 6ftlb for pistols. You can own and use a rifle or pistol of higher muzzle energy if you hold a Fire Arms Certificate.
Presently there is a government proposal to ban the unlicensed ownership of ALL air guns, starting in Scotland as a trial, with England and Wales to follow if the Scottish ban proves “successful”.
Any accident or incident gets immediate press attention, followed up by MP’s jumping on the bandwagon of “outraged” public opinion.
As a responsible, law abiding air gun owner and competitive target shooter I don’t wish to see any further bans or controls imposed upon us as a whole. I therefore have to advise people not to break any existing laws for fear of giving fuel to the anti-firearms lobbyists. I don’t want to have to ship my guns to Switzerland for instance, to go and shoot them once a year like our FAC handgun brethren have to. Even our Olympic team members are not allowed to own or use their competition guns within the UK shores.
So, how does this affect you in the US? Probably not at all at the moment, but to our sport over here in the UK we need to toe the line with every piece of legislation our government wishes to apply. I have signed many petitions over many years to try to prevent further controls and regulations as in my opinion it’s generally somebody who is unaware of or in denial of our gun control and related legislation. Therefore I take it as my responsibility to educate and inform people of their legal obligations relating to their gun ownership. I can’t stop people breaking any laws, but I can at least inform the ignorant, as in our legal system ignorance is no excuse. “I didn’t know murder was illegal” will get you nowhere with your defence etc.
Anyway, the sun is shining, I have work to do, and I can go shooting later.
Cheers!
RancidTom
As for drilling a bottle while it’s pressurised??? I have never heard of anything so stupid, as this is even more likely to cause a stress raising discontinuity in the crystal structure of the base of the bottle.
My whole point about the modification being unsafe is that the base of the bottle is not thick enough to support a thread engagement considered suitable for high pressure applications with reference to either the British Standards Institute or the American National Standards Institute recommendations.
I don’t care to steal business from Allen Zesadny, as I am not and will never be in competition for business drilling holes in pressure vessels, especially not while they are pressurised.
As a technical officer on the bsaog.co.uk I have accepted that I have a duty to keep the members of the site informed as to safe and legal conduct generally regarding gun ownership and use.
I would like to point out to this forums moderators that I find Mr mamcrackin’s unprovoked attack rather unacceptable at least in so far as he can’t even spell pompous! 🙄
Mr mamcrackin has been given a 1 month suspension from posting on bsaog.co.uk where he launched a series of insults at me. He is not banned but has been warned by the moderators of the site that his postings will be under close scrutiny when his suspension is lifted and any further infringement of site etiquette will probably earn him a lifetime ban.
I would also like to point out that I do not have moderator powers on the bsaog, nor did I ask for him to be suspended. The moderators used their own discretion in their actions.
RancidTom
Here you go making statements without facts again….Try to keep up
with the current news….I am guessing your lacky hasn’t informed
you yet but, as of this time I am permanently banded from your
site FOREVER. What will I do? 🙄 …Your little buddy Robbie sent
me an e-mail using profanity unbecoming a gentleman and I let
him know that I didn’t appreciate it…The great thing about this site
Tom is that you can come over here and say anything you would like and
I am still not going to threaten to try to have you banned nor, will I try
to surpress your opinions no matter how tight ass they may be….
No one attacked you until you started attacking AZ…You got what you gave
and now you are crying about it….. I know you have all of
these standards in your head that makes you feel like you know
what you’re talking about and lead you to believe that you have the
right to smear someones reputation but the fact is….YOU CAN NOT
MAKE THE STATEMENT THAT THE AZ MOD WILL MAKE THE BOTTLE
BLOW UP. That is mearly an assumption on your part and you know
what they say about assuming…..
Calm down and relax….It is all just good banter and if you can push
your ego aside you will realize that your point is getting across and
that this whole subject is getting more exposure than it would have otherwise./…
IT IS NOT ALWAYS JUST ABOUT YOU Tom….
Tell Robbie I said hello and that I forgive him for saying I
was “a contemptuous prick”..I say
if your going to insult someone ya have to put your whole heart into it…that was lame…..
P.S. Kids, Don’t friggin try this mod at home….Let someone
experience handle it…..God forbid don’t send it to anyone like Tom…
He has no clue how to do anything unless he has instructions
and standards to follow….Don’t expect to see any mods coming out
of Tom’s stable….It would be outragious to try something no one
has done before……Like drilling for oil, flying, space travel. OOooo…
Too dangerous…..
Be safe Tom….I know you will.
I don’t doubt that at all WOK. In fact, I would have been highly surprised if they said any thing different what so ever.
Chevy, Ford, And Chrysler also say DO NOT MODIFY YOU ENGINES!
So does the State of Cali. and a Lot of others. Not to mention DOT and the EPA! In fact my Drag Racing Mustang that was register in Texas wouldn’t have passed a sniff test or inspecting if it’s life depended on it. It also broke a few track records in it’s day. And I enjoyed it for years! 😀
Note. I am not condoning or supporting , the breaking of any law’s. I sold the the Mr. 5.0 DARE Mustang for OFF ROAD road use only! 😉
If all the rules of the manufactures, and State and Fed. agency’s were followed to the letter, Hobbyist Drag Racing would disappear today! do not pass go, Stop NOW!!! It will be stoped 😥 soon enough.
Hi RancidTom,
If Mamcrackin bent you over an had his way with you he still would not be banned here.
To get banned here you have piss off the 4 hooligans who run this place and that is hard to do since we all got out of jail.
People live or die by what they post here. So have at it.
For the record I have contacted the D.O.T and Luxfer as well as Catalina cylinders in the past and they all say a cylinder drilled in the bottom is dangerous and can not be used ever again.
Rancid, From what I understand, AZ doesn’t’ thread the bottom of the bottle, it is accomplished with a fitting on both the inside, and out side of the bottle. There fore your obvious observation holds little merit. Are you an engineer, metallurgist, or simply an armchair master?
Wonderful first post by the way! 🙄
Quote–Again it is up to AZ to prove it safe. Until then it is not.–
To whoever wrote this, Seems to me AZ has proven it. Over and over again, over years of doing this mod.
M/C, hate this flame war got started simply because you wanted to show a gun that you enjoy and were proud of . This has been rude as hell.
I sure am glad some of these guys weren’t in the Drag racing business back in the day. They would have screwed up every thing we were trying to accomplish. It’s dangerous! It’s dangerous! O my God, the sky is falling!!! 😯 Can y imagine this type of thinking when firearms were first being developed. Your going to put what in where and plug it up with a hunk of WHAT??? You have Got to be CRAZY!!! Your all going to blow your selves up!!! Throwing rocks is the only safe way to go! Hell, cartridge wildcatting would be completely out of the question! 🙄 😉
Thanks Marc!
Very good showing of what it takes to make a high pressure tank.
These were Catalina tanks. If any one wants to see another method, that is completely different, you can google Luxfer scuba tanks. They start with a different type of stock completely. The method of forming is very different as well.
But in both, it is easy to see why the base of the tank is much stronger than the neck area. it has to do with elasticity of the metal, and this area going through the lest amount of extrusion.
Did any one catch the tenstile strength test. That was 60,000 psi!!
While different than burst strength, it does give you a very good idea of the strength of the metal being worked with. Ask any one where tanks fail in hydro, and you will fine that is the top of the tank where it starts the curve to the taper that is the neck. This is the area of the billet that sees the highest level of elasticity being used in the formation of the bottle. This is why it is annealed in this area. To reduce the inherent brittleness that occurs in the extrusion process.
The Side of the tank is the second highest stressed area. And is another area of failure. The base is stressed much less in the manufacturing process. And is by far the strongest part of the tank.
Notice the marking method. While not Electro-Acid marked, it is not stamped. The markings on the tank appear stamped, and may would assume this to be the case.
While stamps are indeed used, they are applied in a roll-marking process. This is a much stressful to the metal. In fact, so much so, that is is used in most fire arm manufacturing for the marking of manufacturer and caliber of a given barrel. In this method, there is a displacement of metal on the surface only. It does not disturb the integrity of the underling matrix. However, even this is being slowly replaced with electro-etch and laser marking methods. You will see this on many firearms now days.
However, when we have tanks hydro tested, the shops do indeed use the old fashion hand stamp that is struck with a heavy hammer. This moves metal all the way through the matrix of the metal. And can be a source of failure. It is called notch sensitivity.
In fact, notch sensitivity is so important and telling that a version of this is called the Sharpy -V-Notch sensitivity test, and is a standard test in metallurgy right along with tinstile testing on alloys requiring high strength and shear resistance.
This is all a long winded way of saying that if you want to put a quick connect fill valve in the tank that already has the other end screwed into the gun, the base is the place to do it. In a well made flat bottomed tank, it doen’t bother me one bit. That is why the air valve is placed on one end in the first place. It’s the strongest location. (And for what its’ worth, the round tapered end “top” of the tank is for causing less resistance in the water, not just strength.) The first tanks were nearly flat on both ends why back when. Lol!!! 😆
Mike
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Why were people drilling holes into the engine blocks and putting quick fill nipples on them 😛 ?
WHAT? No picture?