Benjamin Rogue Bullshit detector ringing!
Does anyone here have a Rogue? Please don’t be bashful, I’m not trying to belittle anyone or call them out for anything. I just want to get some actual information from someone who bought a Rogue retail and hopefully can shoot worth a damn!
As far as I can tell, Crosman (via Chip) has backed off on initial performance claims (though in a mealy mouthed way) and are now all about versatility.
Crosman appears (to me) to have delighted in all the pre-release hype on the airgun forums but is now claiming the lack of any positive reports via airgun forums to be because they market the gun to PB guys.
There are claims that hundreds of guns have been sold and yet the buyers are strangely silent. Oh yeah, the PB guys that bought this gun would never think to ask airgunners about all that airgun stuff like tanks, fills per tank, where to get fills, best prices, best gear etc… no they get all that info from Crosman… a company with one big bore to it’s credit. Right.
I was a defender of Crosman when they announced the Rogue and still appreciate the guts to move into a new market with new technology. In fact, I’d be proud of a company that did that and failed on the first attempt! Taking a risk and losing reveals a far stronger character and work ethic than playing it safe and having mediocre success.
But now, I smell BS and I hate that! I’m not saying that new tech is suddenly bad or even that the Rogue is a bad gun, I’m saying that Crosman appears to have let bogus initial claims stand despite knowing the actual product didn’t deliver per hype. The so called “actual” performance is not well defined but doesn’t appear all that bad (energy numbers only), but it’s not close to original hype.
Way back when, it was claimed that the gun would get 20 shots at 150 FPE and 4 shots at 250 FPE. Yeah, now the gun gets 21 shots at 133 FPE (not badf at all) and 3 shots at 195 FPE. The 21 at 133 doesn’t fall that far short but 3 at 195 is a damn far cry from 4 at 250! The latest explanation from Chip (Crosman’s rep) is not satisfactory. He claims that the initial claims were based on different weight bullets. Right, a gun that shoots 175gr bullets at 250 for 4 shots can only manage 195 with 170gr bullets for 3 shots… I might have been born on a rainy night but it wasn’t last night! Shit, I’ve got more big bores downstairs than Crosman has even seriously considered but they are going to tell me (and you) what’s what?
I’m also curious about Crosman’s claim via Chip that this gun is intended to bring hunters to airguns vice airgunners to hunting. Sounds like a BS strategy to me. You can’t get a airgunner to like the gun but maybe a guy who knows no better will? Let me get this straight, sell a gun that needs air tanks and fittings and fill sources etc to a PB guy and ignore the guys that already have all the gear to support the gun? Yeah, ignore the guys that already have all the gear and are used to the hassles that airguns bring but focus on PB guys that can buy super consistent ammo from big guys or custom reloaders? Got it. It’s a good thing the Rogue only costs double what a match grade varmint rifle with a tax stamp for a silencer would cost!
OK, maybe I’m totally f’d up here, it’s happened before! So, does anyone have a link to a PB site where the Rogue is reviewed by an actual customer? Has anyone in Crosman’s self declared target market actually posted any results? Really, after hundreds of sales to these hunters that routinely post on topics like head space measurements, best powder loads, best powder types, effects of temperature on powders, bullet designs, and every other esoteric thing you can imagine about shooting, shouldn’t there be a few easily found reviews?
BTW, I did notice that Jim (echochap) has a wonderful specimen that his buddy can shoot little groups with off-hand. Yeah, my BS detector has not been silenced! This is where I gather some hate mail… Jim has a habit of going quiet on guns that suck. He also has a habit of ignoring great guns that don’t pay his way. If he ever manages to “find the time” to gather actual numbers on the Rogue, they will probably be reported accurately. However, if the numbers and accuracy are crap, I doubt we’ll ever know that he found the time…
So, I’m looking for retail customers that Crosman was unaware of to relay actual results! Has anyone besides the Crosman team shot anything with a Rogue?
All Replies
The real truth to this tale will be next years Crosman lineup. If the Rogue is absent, then we will know.
What longer term problems will emerge after a year or two of shooting? I’m confident this tale is still unfolding.
H 😯 😯 T
Steve,
That brings up another question then now that i think about it. Didn’t the owner of the Rogue that you and i shot return his original one for a replacement. Then when he got the replacement, he soon returned the gun for a full refund. This was NOT that long ago. Maybe the Rogues got fixed right after OUR guy returned his second Rogue for a full refund!
Hmmmmm
I shot the same rogue as Tofaz. I shot it several weeks before Tofaz. He couldn’t make the first range session, so I was able to set up the second so Tofaz to try it. I was relieved, but not surprised, when Tofaz had the same problems as I had. Most disappointing.
Did I mention that I really like my .25 Marauder? 😉
x2
I guess you shot an early example. Chip says the feed issues were fixed “long ago.” (not that the gun has even been on the market a “long” time…)
BTW, I love the Disco and the 760XL I had remains one of my all time favorites…
Thanks Steve!
Well, OK. I shot a Rogue and was amazed at what a piece of shit it was. It was innaccurate. It was inconsistent. It had failure to feed from the magazine problems. It was heavy and ugly. AND it’s what I consider expensive for what you get.
I am not a crosman hater. It’s just my experience with the rogue was just plain negative. Buy one at your own risk.
I didn’t want to post such a negative review when the gun was new, however after so much BS from crosman I guess it’s time to give my honest impression of the rogue.
Did I mention that I really like my .25 Marauder? 😉
I was inspired by Jerry’s post. 😉
AMEN……..SYN!
I think it comes down to helping or looking out our fellow man instead of bending over for the $$ and sticking it to a fellow man.
Allow me to wander slightly off topic to make a comparison.
I was looking into a SteinTrike ( http://www.steintrikes.com/index.php ), a full suspension recumbent tadpole trike and went to a dealer to check it out. I wondered out loud why a certain website had not reviewed what I would consider the best trike on the market.
Well it turns out the reviewer demands he gets to keep the products he tests. While some recumbent bicycles are pretty cheap the SteinTrike is $3500 and made in Europe. A couple good words and a somewhat weak-ass review (at best) isn’t worth giving up one of these expensive machines.
Back on topic (bringing it home).
Who is going to give a relatively impartial review when what they get is a gift?
The so called professionals can’t openly criticize a free product out of fear of never getting more free stuff in the future. If you make money off giving good reviews to free products you risk financial loss of giving bad reviews (or to put it differently the reviews are no longer to service the customer but for paying the bills of the reviewer).
This is why you hear nothing but silence from the “professional staffers” on the Rogue. They have been paid in one form or another to not give impartial reviews.
Plus…
Part of understanding the value and performance of something is quantifying what you get for the money you paid.
The other day I saw a headline about monkeys throwing feces being a sign of an ordered society… Had no idea a linkage would develop here! 😆
Wok, I’d try that pic but I’m not really trying to get banned, just expecting “blow back.”
Steve,
I’m pretty certain that this thread was found by Echochap (Jim) while searching the net for Rogue reports. Yeah, we could dismiss the gun as shit and shut the Hell up but I think the better thing is to keep the heat on.
This thread reveals to anyone else who does a search that the other links that came up are probably unsupported BS and that the gun has yet to demonstrate decent performance in the hands of a customer.
It also shows that the so called professionals have taken the path of silence instead of honesty and integrity. I think we’re all a little leery of guys that have all the time in the world to go on sponsored hunting trips suddenly not having the time to set up a chrony for an hour’s worth of testing. These same guys want to be the oracle when they post a review but depend on second hand, unknown reports when defending their lack of effort/honesty and tearing down guys who report on their “limited” experience.
Maybe I’m on a crusade of sorts and my ideas regarding this issue are tedious and without result. I’m sorry if that’s the case. I know that I’ve talked to my kids about how every slug they send out the door carries my name and their granddad’s name and their name which they ought to have pride in. I would expect that the current guardian’s of Crosman’s name would have the same respect for their charge but apparently not.
So, sorry for the long post and endless thread but as an early proponent of the Rogue and the guts it took to build it, I’m a little pissed. I have a number of Crosman guns and my kids shoot the Disco damn near every day but BS is BS and can’t go unchallenged…
BTW, thanks to Wok and Tony for this forum!
Oh, OK. 😉
lol!!
What?…… Are you NEW here or something? 😛
Steve, you made me look….
Cyg’s video thread:
23 pages, 445 replies, 53,175 views… 😯 😯
Zocoloco’s thread about his Matadors:
33 pages, 650 posts, 44,197 views… 😯
Zoc’s got more replies/pages, Cyg is the view king!!! 😉
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The gun we shot Tofaz, was returned. Crosman sent it back telling the owner that “the gun was performing within their specifications.” I haven’t shot it since it was returned, but it was to my understanding that it was still an inaccurate, inconsistent piece of junk. Like some of us, this gentleman has not sold his rogue. He’s shelved it in disgust. Perhaps he’s waiting for someone to come up with the necessary fixes that will make it shoot like it’s supposed to, (I’m not holding my breath on this one.) He was looking into different, more accurate big bore airguns. I suggested one of Tony’s when they become available. 😉