Benjamin Rogue Bullshit detector ringing!
Does anyone here have a Rogue? Please don’t be bashful, I’m not trying to belittle anyone or call them out for anything. I just want to get some actual information from someone who bought a Rogue retail and hopefully can shoot worth a damn!
As far as I can tell, Crosman (via Chip) has backed off on initial performance claims (though in a mealy mouthed way) and are now all about versatility.
Crosman appears (to me) to have delighted in all the pre-release hype on the airgun forums but is now claiming the lack of any positive reports via airgun forums to be because they market the gun to PB guys.
There are claims that hundreds of guns have been sold and yet the buyers are strangely silent. Oh yeah, the PB guys that bought this gun would never think to ask airgunners about all that airgun stuff like tanks, fills per tank, where to get fills, best prices, best gear etc… no they get all that info from Crosman… a company with one big bore to it’s credit. Right.
I was a defender of Crosman when they announced the Rogue and still appreciate the guts to move into a new market with new technology. In fact, I’d be proud of a company that did that and failed on the first attempt! Taking a risk and losing reveals a far stronger character and work ethic than playing it safe and having mediocre success.
But now, I smell BS and I hate that! I’m not saying that new tech is suddenly bad or even that the Rogue is a bad gun, I’m saying that Crosman appears to have let bogus initial claims stand despite knowing the actual product didn’t deliver per hype. The so called “actual” performance is not well defined but doesn’t appear all that bad (energy numbers only), but it’s not close to original hype.
Way back when, it was claimed that the gun would get 20 shots at 150 FPE and 4 shots at 250 FPE. Yeah, now the gun gets 21 shots at 133 FPE (not badf at all) and 3 shots at 195 FPE. The 21 at 133 doesn’t fall that far short but 3 at 195 is a damn far cry from 4 at 250! The latest explanation from Chip (Crosman’s rep) is not satisfactory. He claims that the initial claims were based on different weight bullets. Right, a gun that shoots 175gr bullets at 250 for 4 shots can only manage 195 with 170gr bullets for 3 shots… I might have been born on a rainy night but it wasn’t last night! Shit, I’ve got more big bores downstairs than Crosman has even seriously considered but they are going to tell me (and you) what’s what?
I’m also curious about Crosman’s claim via Chip that this gun is intended to bring hunters to airguns vice airgunners to hunting. Sounds like a BS strategy to me. You can’t get a airgunner to like the gun but maybe a guy who knows no better will? Let me get this straight, sell a gun that needs air tanks and fittings and fill sources etc to a PB guy and ignore the guys that already have all the gear to support the gun? Yeah, ignore the guys that already have all the gear and are used to the hassles that airguns bring but focus on PB guys that can buy super consistent ammo from big guys or custom reloaders? Got it. It’s a good thing the Rogue only costs double what a match grade varmint rifle with a tax stamp for a silencer would cost!
OK, maybe I’m totally f’d up here, it’s happened before! So, does anyone have a link to a PB site where the Rogue is reviewed by an actual customer? Has anyone in Crosman’s self declared target market actually posted any results? Really, after hundreds of sales to these hunters that routinely post on topics like head space measurements, best powder loads, best powder types, effects of temperature on powders, bullet designs, and every other esoteric thing you can imagine about shooting, shouldn’t there be a few easily found reviews?
BTW, I did notice that Jim (echochap) has a wonderful specimen that his buddy can shoot little groups with off-hand. Yeah, my BS detector has not been silenced! This is where I gather some hate mail… Jim has a habit of going quiet on guns that suck. He also has a habit of ignoring great guns that don’t pay his way. If he ever manages to “find the time” to gather actual numbers on the Rogue, they will probably be reported accurately. However, if the numbers and accuracy are crap, I doubt we’ll ever know that he found the time…
So, I’m looking for retail customers that Crosman was unaware of to relay actual results! Has anyone besides the Crosman team shot anything with a Rogue?
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You will have a better chance of them banning you if you include this picture in your post 🙂
Yeah, the “pro” still hasn’t done shit as far as a real review. I’d have thought by now he might have been shamed into it but I was wrong. Obviously, keeping Crosman happy and not making other manufacturers nervous so as to keep the stream of hunting trips and frrebies alive is a far stronger incentive than trying to disprove our skepticism of anything he ever writes.
The fact is, you’ll never get a word of warning from Jim about a shit gun. If it’s crap, he’ll just be too busy to get back to it until the end of time.
In a few days, I was able to do a review of a new scope from mounting through the company offered software. I did all that while working my day job. Jim’s days are as long as mine. He has deliberately stonewalled us on actual numbers and actual targets for the Rogue. He’s relied on a couple anecdotes and some clearly neophyte and BS “reviews” on sales sites as actual information. What horseshit! If some guy who thinks 200 FPE is monster power and another bit of obvious ad copy is informative, who the Hell needs Jim to repeat it?
Maybe we’ll get another, “I was at LASSO and I thought it did well” post. BFD! There are clear and repeatable metrics for testing these guns and the Rogue has failed when measured. Sadly, the only real measurements come from early customers and the “Pros” are clearly part of the company stable in belittling the only real reports while claiming all issues are fixed and too bad they don’t have time to prove it.
BS! Right now, I wouldn’t trust echochap to describe the muzzle from the stock on a new gun. He appears bought and paid for and he’s not even getting a direct check according to him! Sold his reputation for favor…
I suppose I’ll be banned from several sites for this observation… 😆
It was Jim Chapman, a supposed “professional” evaluator and air gun reviewer…
Is this the guy who hasn’t done any velocity testing because he was too busy..? 😕
😯
Is this the guy who hasn’t done any velocity testing because he was too busy..? 😕
.308 HPs from Bob? His stuff is expensive but I do know what a pain HPs are to make, so I have a bit of sympathy…
So it shoots the most expensive slugs out there. Surprised because all the .308 stuff I got was junk
So, LASSO came and went along with all the other timelines for Rogue “full reports” etc…
All I’ve seen from LASSO was a couple comments that the gun did “well” out to 200-250 or so and that the Crosman exec got 6 of 12 targets. I guess 6 of 12 might have been pretty good given conditions but who knows? The comment from Chip regarding ammo choices tells me the Nosler isn’t exactly the greatest…
Bob’s video didn’t help with the accuracy concerns although, I did read a post that his 140gr HPs were shooting very well with inch groups (couldn’t tell if the poster got those at 50 or 75 yards but they would be the best accuracy reported by a retail customer so far).
I suppose Echochap’s gun is back at Crosman to fix his concerns that it was shooting slow and maybe he’ll get back to the gun sometime. Or, maybe, he can’t do an honest evaluation without revealing it’s not all that… So, he’ll stay quiet and just point to his buddy that killed a yote with it.
Yes sir!
http://wop.pyramydair.com/s/m/Evanix_Rainstorm_II_PCP_Air_Rifle/2750
The Yellow is good for some things! Been waiting and due to poor customer service at an unnamed retailer I was able to wait until this sucker came out!!!! Good thing too! I was even pondering getting a .22 version but was reading on the Yellow and detected chatter about a .25 version coming so waited but got tax money and had to help the economy out 😆
I didn’t know the Rainstorm came in .25 caliber!
Bean…you’ll shoot off a nut if you’re not careful. Give us some pics and results when it comes in.
H 😯 😯 T
The wolverine in .25 would have been the shit!!!! I bet 50 shots at 50 fpe would have been possible! Just put in a pre-order on the .25 rainstorm :o. Just got pushed back two weeks 😥
That said, a site that big that allows so much pure unchallenged BS to remain unchallenged…well, I guess it’s a club. It sure isn’t all that friendly to lie to people looking for answers about airguns.
I’m certain the negative posts about the Rogue have been among the MOST productive posts!
I think I can challenge the BS over there……I just have to present facts as if I am either 1) an emotionless robot….ie “Spock”, or 2) a parent teaching it’s child right from wrong in a patient, loving manner.
I’m not always “emotionless”, or “loving”…..that is why my replies over there have been coming a couple of days after the post I am responding to. First I write my response like I would over here, then I go back over it with the “loving parent”, or “Spock” brush….basically saying the same thing in a different way which is a whole lot more work than just spilling it like I want to.
I don’t believe that the top-dog administration over there is backing Echo over anyone else…..I KNOW they aren’t, actually. It’s just a “G” rated forum is all.
No, they can’t all be the TAG and that’s fine too. I have no problem with sites having strict rules as they’re privately owned entities, not the government.
That said, a site that big that allows so much pure unchallenged BS to remain unchallenged…well, I guess it’s a club. It sure isn’t all that friendly to lie to people looking for answers about airguns.
I’m certain the negative posts about the Rogue have been among the MOST productive posts!
Viva la TAG!!! 😆
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This gun is a piece of junk. Why are you guys still talking about it? Seven pages? Really? This thread is about to challenge Cygnus X’s squirrel video thread for most read and replies; crike mate! 😉