Condor 308
I’ve been testing my R&L Condor in 308 caliber that I got a couple of weeks ago. I’m using a EtacHPA and a 68/4800 Carbon fiber tank, so it’s a completely different setup than their normal 308.
I first started out testing a 52 grain bullet and saw over 37 to 40 shots on low power wheel setting and starting at 2700psi with speeds from 840fps-860fps-840fps.
I adjusted the PW to a higher setting after the first 20 shots for 8 shots back in the 860fps and turned it back down for 12 more shots between 840 and 860 before dropping to 820fps at 1800psi. I was wasting air when I turned the PW up, so I should try it again without touching it.
I finally was able to get a shooting area set up in my shop over the weekend and after 80 shots at 2500psi to 2000psi to had an idea of how the power wheel and top hat effected the speeds.
3000psi looks good and I may get a nice shot curve at 3200psi.
——————–
3000psi
PW setting of 8-0
52 grn
989.5 (113.08 fpe)
1021
1021
1019
1024
1014
1020
1025
1001
1029 (122.29 fpe)
1006
1002
994.9
1001
995.6
989.6
1014
992.6
997.6
988.0
988.5
981.7
983.7 (111.76 fpe)
978.9 (2000psi)
——————–
3000 psi
PW setting of 8-0
124gr
806.6 (179.18 fpe)
800.3
x
806.7
x
x
x
816.7
808.7
815.2 (183.02 fpe)
789.2
x
x
x
788.1
820.6 (185.46 fpe)
x
775.7
760.5 (2000psi)
——————–
Available amount of air for the Standard Condor tank is 490 CC
29.90ci x 3000/14.7 = 6102.04 ci /1728 = 3.53 CF = 99,958.468 cc
For my Carbon Fiber tank..
68×3000/14.7 = 13877 ci / 1728 = 8.03 CF = 227,384.278 cc
68×4500/14.7 – 20816 ci / 1728 = 12.05 CF = 341,218.001 cc
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One thing that makes my setup different besides the amount of air is that I am using the EtacHPA and the direct amount of the air flow is different.
This should give you an idea of the available space in front of the valve and spring seat. Measurements may not be exact, but as close as I could get them.
One change I did between my two test was to polish the spring seat and add a bevel to the spring seat opening as well.
This image is after removing some material and beveling the edge.
This is after I polished the spring seat.
My next test will be to make a new spring seat that takes up less room in the Etac’s air chamber.
This should either give me the amount of air I need to break 200fpe or slow me down because of the added amount of air needed to fill the chamber up before entering the valve.
All Replies
I did some testing last night with a different spring seat that I had modified for more air flow.
52 grain
2800psi, 8-0, .095
946.5, 929.9, 1192, 912.6, 921.8
2800, 12-0, .095
989.2, 951, 1233, 936.7, 941.6, 1209, 1302, 1225
122grain
2800psi, 8-0, .095
760.3, 743.0
2800psi, 12-0, .095
761.9, 1043, 1063, 716.0 – (edit:) questionable, bad crony reading or inconsistent from high PW setting
It looks like the 52 grain is no longer useful and I need a heavier bullet to move ahead.
I’ll also be moving up in hammer weight again and reducing the PW tension to gain consistency.
Based on the pictures I’ve seen posted on the extreme valve, it’s really isn’t that different from what’s been seen. I’m just not going to be the guy that gives out the cook’s recipe before he has finished with it.
Is the Extreme valve for the 25cal a custom valve or just a polished condor valve?
I’ve been confused about that after reading the post on it, but in talking with him about this gun he did say it was a custom valve.
So this “Extreme308” valve is custom made by R&L.
Tworr,
Thanks for the information. That’s good power you’re getting. Do you have detailed photos you can post of your .308 that shows us the valve, etc, so we can see if those are custom parts made by R & L?
I wonder what that rig would produce if you could use helium as the propellant gas.
Here’s an update on the 308.
Short version –
Life, sick, fill gauge problems, waited for replacement, silicone in my gun slowing things down and waiting for spring seat replacements. Made new striker weight.
Skip to testing below…..
Long version –
I ran into a wall last month and was seeing lower power out of the gun than I had previously experienced. I felt like it was the hammer or hammer spring, but it just wasn’t opening the valve like it was before. I also felt like I had taken too much off the spring seat and couldn’t get back to the best setting I had after beveling the head of the spring seat the first time.
So I took the gun apart and gave it a thorough cleaning and waited for three new spring seats to come from Randy at R&L that I can leave one stock and make changes to the other two.
What I found when cleaning my gun was that a little dielectric grease was had made it way to the valve stem and was slowing things down.
I also saw that I was working with a single striker weight and wanted to try a little more weight to get the valve open and this is what I made.
All I could find locally that I could use was a brass nut. I made it the correct size for the OD and opened up the ID to where it didn’t touch the barrel.
New brass striker weight is 26 grams. Total hammer weight and striker is 74 grams.
I also sprayed the hammer and striker with dry lube silicon which really made everything slick.
I question if I had a solid brass striker that was 26 grams if I would see any different versus it riding on the edges and having less surface friction.
Anyway the improvements seemed very positive with the 122 grain doing 848-837fps for 195 fpe.
I also took this opportunity to do a complete reset of my testing to keep my data usable for more people. The only thing different here than the gun came to me is the hammer weight. Stock AF tank, Stock spring and Stock spring seat.
Testing…..
52 grain
2800psi, 0-0, .090
862,903,925,924,923,911,912,909,909,902,894,887 1800psi left
2800psi, 8-0, .098
917,944,940,1210,1277,1252,1344,1279,1275,1260,1225
122 grain
2700psi, 0-0, .090 – 732, 720, 705 fps
2700psi, 6-0, .090 – 735, 728, 707 fps
2700psi, 8-0, .090 – 751, 749 fps
2900psi, 8-0, .094 – 748, 744, 722 fps
2900psi, 8-0, .096 – 848, 832, 837 fps
Bullet info for testing –
Here’s a little info on my bullets I’m using for testing. The 52 grain bullets are Hornday OO buckshot (.330) and I got in a 5 pound bag. Pretty hard, but not impossible to shoot or for me to swage in my lee press to .308 (actually .307). The Hornady 36 cal muzzleloader roundballs (.350) are much softer lead, but at $10-$12 a box of 100 I can do more testing with the 5 pound bag for $25.
For shooting over the crony it’s an easy way for me to make changes to the gun without wasting good ammo. For anything kind of accuracy or hunting, these 52 grain buckshot are absolutely horrible.
To give you an idea of what I’m looking for with the 52 grain bullet before I shoot a heavier good bullet is this.
The difference in the 52grains hitting 1000fps(old number from CF tank and stock hammer weight) vs it hitting 1200fps in the new test was the difference in the 122 grain bullets doing 822fps with the old setup and 848fps with the new test. That’s 183fpe vs 190fpe which is a smaller gain than 115fpe vs 166fpe with the 52 grain bullet.
Top two are the 52 grain Hornady 00 buckshot .330
Bottom three are 62 grain 36 cal .350 roundballs
Here’s the bullet picture again.
From left to right.
158 spitzer, 152 round nose, 124 round nose, 90 round nose, 96 Keith nose Stinger, 78 big lube.
I had asked for and was hoping for a 28″, but it’s a 26″ barrel. Looks like he will only be offering 24″ and 26″ barrels. He doesn’t have a shroud for the gun yet.
Hopefully I’ll have some 30 and 50 yard groups to show this weekend. I have permission to hunt some beaver on a farm and will be doing some scouting on Sunday afternoon and need to get a bullet zeroed in before I go.
I was able to do some quick off hand shooting at 30 yards with a couple of the bullets I had left and it’s looking like the shorter bullets are not working out as well as I was wanting.
The 78 grain big lube bullet seemed to be wild and all over the place with the majority hitting a 2″ group, but the 90 grain round nose tightened up to 1″ at 30 yards, but the shots still seemed random to me.
I don’t know what to think about the shorter bullets. Speed, barrel twist or it just likes the longer bullets. I was having some high gust of wind, but I really need to lock the gun down and take me out of the equation to see what’s really going on.
I wish I had saved a few of 124 grain round noses, but I was out. I did have a few of the 158 spitzers and the 152 round nose bullets left.
The 152 grain made a near horizontal line up with the first two nearly in the same hole and the rest over lapping each other. First four shots were .68″ from end to end and the fifth jump up and to the left making the total size of the spread .90″.
The 158 grain put the first two nearly in the same hole and jumped to the right putting the next two in the same home. Spread for the four was .84″ and the fifth jumped up like the other and made the total size for the five shots .98″.
Both of these 5 shots were from 3000psi to 2500 psi on my 68ci tank and no spring in the valve with power wheel on 8-0 and .092 tophat setting.
Is your barrel 24″ or 28″? Did you get a shroud from Randy for this new rig? If so, we’d like to hear how effective it is.
Sweet!
Nice rifle and nice job on that level. Hey, what’s up with blacking out your face in that photo? Sounds like we need to do another call out for posting up picks of our ugly mugs…Every now and then we share what we look like so we can shatter the preconceived images we form based upon people’s words and attitudes 😆
Thanks Grit! I don’t know why I blacked it out. I have plenty of hunting pics with my mug in them. I guess it felt dorky posing for a jacket I made. But the jacket works so great and I’m very happy with it. That cordura material is amazingly light weight and tear resistant. It can withstand anything I’m stalking through and hide my profile without being big and getting in the way. It’s just very versatile.
Thank you!! It helps a lot. Without a but pad I find myself canting the gun a lot. The flat forearm of the stock helps, but the level allows me to double check it.
Just give him a call and tell him what you want. It should be close to half of the full stock.
I wanted one of Doug’s stocks, but the full stock wouldn’t work for me since I had the Etac with the downward cant. He has another half stock, but I liked the thicker forearm of his Ultimate stock. What I have is just a half version of that full stock. There should be a half-long and a half-short version. I have the half-short version so I can use the rail in front of the forearm. I think it’s a winner and he should be making more for Randy.
tworr,
Nice rifle and nice job on that level. Hey, what’s up with blacking out your face in that photo? Sounds like we need to do another call out for posting up picks of our ugly mugs…Every now and then we share what we look like so we can shatter the preconceived images we form based upon people’s words and attitudes 😆
Randy should have them.. Give him a call. He does an amazing job..
That level is a good set up looks like it well help prevent any canting. Congrats on number one off the line. :4:
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Looks like your chrono is not reading right. 300 fps difference in 5 shots something is wrong. I think your low numbers a probably the right ones. Or maybe not.