Edgun: Not In Defense of the auto mechanism without Kool Aid
In another thread there were some claims that are out there. In fact, so far out there that I decided and feel this topic deserves its own thread but without ass kissing and without Kool Aid.
So, here is the statement that I dispute:
Show me to problems it is causing with loading or accuracy or you are full of hot air and wasting words. I am headed to the range, for some more 30 yard testing and breakin due to cold and convenience of it. 100 will be the deal but not for me today. i’ll leave it to you warm weather guys.
I have taken the liberty of cutting his diatribe for the sake of brevity to focus in on the the real issue.
Ok, I just got in from shooting for over 3 hours. I went through a bunch of pellets and as I have previously stated, the issue was not with accuracy as I confirmed today. Shooting my 25 cal long R3M was just as accurate as my single shot R3’s. The accuracy was good and I’m talking out to 100 to 120 yards where I was able to consistently pound 3/4 and 1″ targets most of the day. It took about 500 to 600 pellets to get it to this state of accuracy. No complaint there.
The closest targets are at 100 yards, then 110 yards and lastly the two in the back near the white Romney sign are at 120 yards. Those targets are great fun to shoot at! No comments about the Romney signs as we are keeping the dream alive. 🙂
Now to address the real issue:
The multi shot is still not indexing properly 100% of the time. There were moments where it didn’t index and I shot puffs of air. The bolt is not smooth and as you pointed out above, not possible with what has to happen when using an auto advance mechanism, nobody else’s is either.
REALLY! What flavor Kool Aid do you like best because you are certainly drinking a lot of it! Either that or your smoking some powerful cigarettes. 😯
And for you I have this answer:
How come the following air guns all have multi shot capability and all are smooth as silk and much easier to cock?
1) FX (not a big fan of the brand but all mine are smooth)
2) Daystate (quality)
3) Theoben (smooth but requires more muscle than above two)
4) Kricket (especially smooth and easy)
In fact, the Daystate can be cocked effortlessly as can the FX and Krickets. The R3M bolt assembly is not smooth and difficult to cock. The advancing mechanism also leaves much to be desired as has been stated numerous times by multiple users.
I am going to take Ed up on his offer to return the gun to Tony but not for a refund but for an exchange. I want to see if this is an inherent issue or if the mechanism needs to be reworked. If the exchange proves to be problematic as does the original, then I will take the time to rework it and see exactly why it is performing the way it is. Obviously, there is an issue. Either this is an issue with all new R3M’s or perhaps mine is a lemon, the exchange will prove which it is. I think mine is a lemon because I was shooting with a friend and his was far different than mine.
On a different note, those of you who own a new R3M, which new R3M do all of you have as posted below:
WE’LL CALL THIS MODEL #1
WE’LL CALL THIS ONE MODEL #2
All Replies
Hi ED,
I don’t know the backgrounds so I don’t know how deep those “troubled roots” go but I start from the assumption that everybody here is fair and honest and that everybody is heading to a positive solution if there is a problem.
I believe we are not speaking here about money but about a “broken dream”.
Please see it like this, suppose you are a supporter of a fantastic football team and maybe this team has already won everything in the past from champions to everything.
The more this team goes forward the more the supporters have higher expectations and every lost match, even a single draw of a friendly match, represents a big delusion for them.
Am I fair by saying that probably your new MS overall is not performing up to Edguns addicted fans expectations? Are they already perfect or is there any room for improvement? Could they index better (I’m not saying they are having an indexing problem) or is there any possibility to make them cycle more smoothly? Certainly they can be improved as all the other guns can and this doesn’t represent a fault, it’s just a next step towards “perfection”.
You are perfectly right by saying that the gun is super accurate and nevertheless you are still offering a refund but could it be that the new gun just doesn’t fill ALL the customer expectations or at least not the expectations of all of them? Are those illegitimate expectations or are they any fancy requirements?
If it would be only a problem of money the fastest and best solution would certainly be money back, problem finished and over but I believe that there is more than this.
Final thought, couldn’t it be possible to just replace only the action without the stock? Probably it would be a replacement of a 100% working action with a 100% working action, just the cost of shipping would be involved but afterwards everybody would be happy.
Inexpensive happyness 😀
ATB ED 😀 and thank you for your beautiful items, you don’t know how much of our daily life they fill and how often they are steering our moods.
Ed, I agree with you. Make the product, if the customer likes it…they can buy it. If they don’t, they can buy something else. Heck, you are offering a refund….what else can you do to make a customer happy????? IMO MG should have shot the gun for a week or two BEFORE ALTERING THE GUN and then made a decision whether or not he wants to keep the gun. If it has problems (which they do) return it and buy a cricket, bobcat, or whatever. As far as expecting any manufacturer to fix “things you don’t like about the gun” that is sometimes just not possible. In that situation a refund is in order and that to me STILL SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT THE MANUFACTURER!!!!!!!! I would buy from him again because I know he stands behind his product.
Dear, Pippo,
You are absolutly right in everything, but one, minor thing – there are different types of customers, some of them are called here as “terrorist-customer”, they don’t care about the goods or etc, they always find something to screem about, so there is no way to satisfy them. I am lucky one, I can afford to avoid of such customers 🙂 Besides, I believe you don’t know the background of relashionships between me and MG, that will clear everythig up for you, that is why if I would control who buys my guns I wouldn’t never sell it to him, knowing what will be in result.
Returning to the quality of the gun, I make guns which should be accurate and powerful, they are, even MG has nothing to say about the accuracy, thus I consider I did everything right. If he doesn’t like my guns or some of their features, I offered refund, to me that is the best way for everybody, the producer cannot produce the goods which meet the customer requirrements, so customer return the goods, manufacturer return the money, everybody is happy. Am I right?
Hi Everybody!
“FrankEDstein” sounds too good, I was laughing for a long while.
Now come on ED, you should aim and shoot straight not only when hunting but you should aim straight as well for good customer relations.
I consider everybody here being fundamentally good guys, with high and low moments, with good and bad moods.
I really enjoy this forum because it’s not only about our hobby but also so much about society, it’s actually a mirror of real society.
Look at the “fight” some members had here recently, well it’s luckily all over now and all are friends now more than before, we are really a big family 😀 .
I fully understand MG wanting to have a mint and well performing Edgun, all of us want the same, we are different in showing our disagreement when things don’t go straight and we act differently but we are all brothers loving our rifles for which we care a lot.
Please allow me to say that if I were you I would replace the gun, even if it would cost me 150$ of my own pocket, a happy customer is worth much more than this.
These guys are all proud to own an Edgun, why to destroy this dream and making it become a nightmare? For what is this good and useful?
Looking forward to see many many more of your beautiful and fantastic products (not always perfect as youself already mentioned but who is perfect?)
What counts most is trying to fix our mistakes and shortcomings if there are and with a little of good will much can be done.
Wish everybody ATB 😀
Answering to the last question — I don’t plan to visit USA as to get US visa one needs to give his fingerprints to US ambassy. I don’t know what people in your democracy think about it, either they consider it normal or not, here in Russia, fingerprints are taken only from criminals, not from normal people. Thus, not being a criminal I consider taken my fingerprints as abuse of my rights, that is the only reason why I have no plans to visit USA, no matter if it will be Shot Show or private visit, at least for now.
If to sum all your claim, the main one is that I am thinking just about my pocket, sounds unlogical taking into consideration that producing of multi shot verson of R3M cost me more (just due to more detailes in it) but the price for final clients are the same, both in Russia and abroad, it means I took all the expenditures on my side.
Yes, once again, I have rights to change everything in my guns, if those chages makes them better, moreover, I didn’t push anybody to buy my guns, you are free people in free (I hope) country, who are adult enough to take the information, work with it and make a solution either to buy or not, besides in US you have plenty of offers of other guns, just go and buy what you want, so claiming me as I “force” someone to buy my guns at least sounds silly. Brease out and get callm, I am afraid about your heart and blood pressure 🙁
Wow
……
My Brother Secoda;
in fact, i got tired for my both PCPs, since my M-Rod took me one year and my Edgun almost 2 years, i really have no idea for the next gun,,,, currently i want to buy JSB pellets (20 tins) i checked with airport security they are asking for a permission from the ministry of interior 😯 😯 😯 😯 FUCK FUCK….
for a fucking tin of pellets i have to provide a letter/ permission from a ministry of interior 😥 😥 😥 i have try to bring it from another way… let me see… maybe the same way that i imported my Edgun …. my brother Oldgoat is helping me for placing/paying the order and he will do all for me… and of course i have to payback to him… with a big thanking/appreciation to him… he is really nice guy… 😀 😀
but to be honest i really have interesting on buying/ ordering another Matador short maybe or standard… i don’t know or i might go for Lelya…
after Eguns i like BSA”” hammer forged barrels””… WoW… i really like it…
then …. i like all PCPs all… i am a damn addicted man to airguns … but what to do since i have no way to import them….
Very nice groups. Which airgun are you looking for in your next purchase? ❓
guys,
mine is Style #2… IT IS REALLY ACCURATE…. first i had some rough cocking … but after putting some moly …now it is really smooth and no more rough….
below is 65 mtr (71 yards) five shot ;
this is also 65 mtr, and the flier one i am rather sure that occurred due to the damaged skirts ;
this is 50 mtr 5 shot group;
i am happy with my R3M .22cal… Long ….
So it appears I’m not the only one that feels that way. Lol
Someone hand that man a napkin!!
Ed ass kissing at its finest.
“Re: In Defense of the auto mechanism, old thread, got off to
by RIDETOEAT » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:31 am
Ed,
Thanks for posting, to this topic.
I still think the R3M is amazing when you consider how few added parts you used to create multi. from the original R3 design. I like the simplicity and no multiple linkages and springs and parts to make it work. This gun will be shooting and adored by it’s owners when some other designs are on a shelf broken or with some little part missing. I can appreciate it.
Doug…”
I have #1, with the same above mentioned issues…and as stated earlier it shoots a lot tighter groups than my R3 (zero fliers).
To eliminate the pellets from backing out or jamming during the cyc, which it does; I seat them in further in the mag, heads almost flush with the mag, also changed orings on the mag to just 1 larger dia. but didn´t change the outcome any.
Brgds
Jack
Romney? “Keeping the dream alive.”???
Hope you didn’t vote for that anti 2nd amendment law signing asshat. 😯
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Hmmmmm………
I have the no 1 model I think. Mine is a std. cal.22.
Ordered it just after the official release, and it’s my own fault I did not take delivery earlier than just a few days ago. And I have not been able to shoot her much. Waiting for scoperings etc. Also X-mas takes it’s toll on an old man. I am again leaving for Lanzarote on the 30 th Dec., – so there will not be much time for shooting in the coming weeks. Model no 1 did have the need for some minor changes, and as ED gathered more information and experience from the marketplace, – the model no 2 was developed with minor changes also in the breech/loading mechanism as I understand it. Model 2 was released even before I took delivery of my own model 1. ED’s open dialog and product development philosophy I think is superb. He could easily have pulled back and sold for maximum profits the already existing R3Ms. He didn’t, and we may see new models, new and better features and even new guns in the near future. What do I know……
Using customers as “betatesters” is nothing new in the market place. The best example I can think of may be Apple and “Iphone” where new models are being released even before desiring customers have received the ones they already ordered. Bill Gates and his “Windows” represent the same. As do car manufacturers. Etc. etc. etc…..
Having worked with airguns for some odd 50 years +++, I may have gathered some experience. However as said in my signature, the more I learn about them, – the less I seem to know…. 😳
I have a collection of some 30-40 airguns. Among them are Daystates, Theobens, Air Arms, BSAs, Falcons etc. and not to forget Weirauch HWs in addition to Edguns and Kalibrs. I dare say I think there may have been issues with all of them. May be the BSA R10 rings a bell with some ???
What separate ED and his guns from the rest of the stampede, is the fact that he is here and available to answer questions and listen. I don’t think I have seen on any forum any airgun manufacturer who actually steps down and listens/communicates with his clients like ED does. And there’s proof he listens and takes on board suggestions when time is right. Those of you who have read my old comparison thread and have known the earlier models (R2.5s and R3s), may know how much things have changed.
I do think one should give ED some credit for what he does.
That said, yes there are clearly other multishots out there that perform “out of the box” with more “elegance”. The best and smoothest multishot mechanism I’ve yet tried is that of HW100. Completely effortless cocking via the sidelever, – and it has for me never failed once. There’s a huge difference between HW100 and R3m out of the box when it comes to action smoothness/indexing. But then I did not expect anything but. I shall be back with my final judgement when I have been through a few thousand pellets. What I may clearly enjoy while breaking in, is an accuracy unmatched by most other airguns I’ve tried. And for me the accuracy is what counts the most……..
As for Daystates, – try to fix problems with the “harper-valve” yourself when it fails (and it will)……….. 🙄
The simplicity and “toughness” of the R3s are much more desirable, – at least for this old man here………. 😉
Cheers
Trygve in Oslo 😀