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OK, let’s rephrase, the reticle at EDgun 12×44 calibrated to the optical magnification to be true mildot size 🙂
OK, I didn’t say anytning about the reticle size, never since I don’t care about it as well as I didn’t tell that the size of the reticle for 10 and 12 is the same. The only thing I was talking –the real optical magnification has nothing to the practice of the use of the scope if at the end the reticle is “true” one. no matter the size of it, or magnification of the scope 🙂
The same reticle sizing at different magnification can’t be true on both. That’s been my point all the time and will so continue being. I think you somehow seem to misunderstand my point and i probably yours.
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It matters because it is a SFP scope. The reticle needs to be calibrated to the magnification or it will not be 10cm at 100m.
Seems to me there is a kind of misunderstanding since English is a foregin language for both of us 🙂
The key factor is that the scope is fixed magnification, so we cannot apply the same reticle neither to 12 no to 10 magnification at the same time 🙂 So, let’s put a fly seperatly of cutlets (c) Putin 🙂
I told you that very nice Super Sniper 10×42 scope is not true 10 magnifcation, it is 9.7 (or something close to 10, but not 10) optical magnification but its reticle i true mildot. If SS is a good scope or not?
I told also that almost any scope “change” the optical magnification whyen you adjust the diopter but it doesn’t touch the reticle. So, why do yo care about the opticall magnification is the reticle is OK? More over, in fact you have no idea about the real optical magnificatioion and based you oppinion only on what the manufacturer said. If not, give the method of the control of the optical magnification you use and result aboout different scopes, no matter if they are bad or good. Otherwise it is worthless to keep going on this topic.
What is the part that we seem to misunderstand in the others explanation ?
Why!? The only thing a shooter needs to know if they reticle if “tru” mildot or not, nothing else. As I told before and can repeat almost nobody knows the REAL opctical magnificatin of the scope he use, since he doens’t need to know it, as the point is only if the reticle is true or not, isn’t it? And as I told above SS 10×42 is not true 10 optical magnification scope but itt reticle is “true” one, so nobody just even cared about to measure the real optical magnification of the scope. If you did it? If so, give us the method and result 🙂 Thus, if SS 10×42, having “true” reticle is not real 10 optical magnificaion how it differ of EDgun 12×44 scope with its “true” mildot?
But the earlier question was ” at what mag is the scope true at”. And as many guys already pointed out it needs to be true at its fixed mag ( on a fixed mag scope ) or something’s inherently wrong.
If a 10x ( or 12x or 8x ) scope is mil based but the reticle used doesn’t measure mil’s at the relevant mag that would be wrong , don’t you think ??
As far as I remember the question was about “Strelok”, why the magnification is 12, but one should put as it was equal to 10. That is what I unswered that time and repeat now — the optical magnification is 12 (at least it supposed to be, though as I told the real magnification change even when you change the diopter adjustment on any scopes and there is almost no one scope where the declared magnification is equal to real one), but the reticle is equal to `10, it means that one mil is equal to 10 cm at 100 meters as it should be. And I repeat it again, no matter what optical magnification is on your scope, real or declared, the only things that you should care about if you mildot reticle is “true” or not. At EDgun scope 12×44, reticle is “true” means that it equal to 10 cm at 100 meters, otherwords it is “like” the magnification is 10 🙂 if I can say that. Hope it is not too complicated? 🙂
And i repeat it again as well : If the reticle is true at 10x then the same reticle can’t be true at 12x. If your 12x scope is true at 12x and the 10x scope is true at 10x then everything’s just fine and as it should be.
You said earlier that no scope isn’t be trusted to be true at its given / true ranging mag . That was the time i told you that any scope worth the name is , in fact , true at the given mag.
So – a fixed 12x scope has to have its mil ( or moa ) based reticle true at that exact mag – not at ie 10x.
What is the part that we seem to misunderstand in the others explanation ?
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If one mil covers 10cm at 100m than it is fine and the reticle is true mil-dot reticle. Absolutely correct. Yes.
But the earlier question was ” at what mag is the scope true at”. And as many guys already pointed out it needs to be true at its fixed mag ( on a fixed mag scope ) or something’s inherently wrong.
If a 10x ( or 12x or 8x ) scope is mil based but the reticle used doesn’t measure mil’s at the relevant mag that would be wrong , don’t you think ??
As far as I remember the question was about “Strelok”, why the magnification is 12, but one should put as it was equal to 10. That is what I unswered that time and repeat now — the optical magnification is 12 (at least it supposed to be, though as I told the real magnification change even when you change the diopter adjustment on any scopes and there is almost no one scope where the declared magnification is equal to real one), but the reticle is equal to `10, it means that one mil is equal to 10 cm at 100 meters as it should be. And I repeat it again, no matter what optical magnification is on your scope, real or declared, the only things that you should care about if you mildot reticle is “true” or not. At EDgun scope 12×44, reticle is “true” means that it equal to 10 cm at 100 meters, otherwords it is “like” the magnification is 10 🙂 if I can say that. Hope it is not too complicated? 🙂
If you have 10 magnification, optical and your reticle is MIL equal you will have 10 cm at 100 meters between mils. So you know that one mill match 10 cm at 100 meter, 5 cm at 50 metrs. etc.
If you have 8magnification, optical and your reticle is MIL equal you will have 10 cm at 100 meters between mils. So you know that one mill match 10 cm at 100 meter, 5 cm at 50 metrs. etc. and you don’t care if the optical magnification is 8 since you are working on the reticle and only based on it. If there is no reticle the ony way you can measure optical magnification is to make picture of the tartget thrgough the scope and without it and then calculate the pixels 🙂 It works but what will it give to you if you still will shoot using the mildot reticle which i set exacnly to 1 mil for 10 cm at 100 meters.
The same with other magnifications. I even don’t know how to explain it easiest way?
That, of course , is like it’s supposed to be.
But the earlier question was ” at what mag is the scope true at”. And as many guys already pointed out it needs to be true at its fixed mag ( on a fixed mag scope ) or something’s inherently wrong.
If a 10x ( or 12x or 8x ) scope is mil based but the reticle used doesn’t measure mil’s at the relevant mag that would be wrong , don’t you think ??
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As per my testing, it is true at 12x which is its fixed magnification. Today I tested it out to 200 yards by dialing the turret and it worked perfectly.
If you have 10 magnification, optical and your reticle is MIL equal you will have 10 cm at 100 meters between mils. So you know that one mill match 10 cm at 100 meter, 5 cm at 50 metrs. etc.
If you have 8magnification, optical and your reticle is MIL equal you will have 10 cm at 100 meters between mils. So you know that one mill match 10 cm at 100 meter, 5 cm at 50 metrs. etc. and you don’t care if the optical magnification is 8 since you are working on the reticle and only based on it. If there is no reticle the ony way you can measure optical magnification is to make picture of the tartget thrgough the scope and without it and then calculate the pixels 🙂 It works but what will it give to you if you still will shoot using the mildot reticle which i set exacnly to 1 mil for 10 cm at 100 meters.
The same with other magnifications. I even don’t know how to explain it easiest way?
That, of course , is like it’s supposed to be.
But the earlier question was ” at what mag is the scope true at”. And as many guys already pointed out it needs to be true at its fixed mag ( on a fixed mag scope ) or something’s inherently wrong.
If a 10x ( or 12x or 8x ) scope is mil based but the reticle used doesn’t measure mil’s at the relevant mag that would be wrong , don’t you think ??
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Yes Ed you are right. I have tested it at 100 yards using mildots and then by using clicks, it works perfectly. A plus point is that if I am using the mildots, 12 mildots of the reticle give me more range as compared to other scopes having 10 mildots in reticle.
I told it before and can reapeat again — the only things that makes sence if your reticle meets MIL or MOA and it doesn’t matter what magnification of the scope is.
If you have 10 magnification, optical and your reticle is MIL equal you will have 10 cm at 100 meters between mils. So you know that one mill match 10 cm at 100 meter, 5 cm at 50 metrs. etc.
If you have 8magnification, optical and your reticle is MIL equal you will have 10 cm at 100 meters between mils. So you know that one mill match 10 cm at 100 meter, 5 cm at 50 metrs. etc. and you don’t care if the optical magnification is 8 since you are working on the reticle and only based on it. If there is no reticle the ony way you can measure optical magnification is to make picture of the tartget thrgough the scope and without it and then calculate the pixels 🙂 It works but what will it give to you if you still will shoot using the mildot reticle which i set exacnly to 1 mil for 10 cm at 100 meters.
The same with other magnifications. I even don’t know how to explain it easiest way?
:8: so I got these few days ago and really like them. Have made zero stop shims :8:
Here’s how it looks
If the mildot would be calibrated @ 7x the target size would be 24cm
Let’s calculate: (34.7 / 24) x 7 = 10.12
Which mens the mildot is calibrated for 10.12x magnification vs declared 10x. Which is 1.2% mistake… pretty damn accurate?
1.2% isn’t much at all. It’s 1.2m at 100m, 0.6m (60 cm) at 50m and so on.
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You guys have a weird way to check the calibration 🙂
Or maybe not weird but totally different than the approach i have where one places ie a ruler at 20m and then check how many cm’s between the mil-dots. Too busy to type down the procedure now though ..
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I think I understood what Ed is trying to say. I will try to explain it. Unfortunately English is not my first language as well but will try my best.
F1 or ffp scopes has the reticle in front of the magnification mechanism. So reticle becomes part of the image. When you change the zoom in a ffp scope it is zooming on the image as well as on the reticle. Therefore the reticle calibration remains the same at any zoom level.
F2 or sfp scope has the reticle behind the magnification mechanism. So when you change the zoom it only magnify the image but does not change the reticle. Therefore the reticle calibration changes.
Now eye piece is always behind the reticle whether it’s a f1 or a f2 scope. So at eye piece the reticle is part of the image, just like a f1 scope. When you are adjusting the eye piece the zoom changes and both image and reticle change. So it behaves like a f1 scope and adjusting the eye piece does not change the calibration of the reticle.